|
guts and bolts posted:With respect, Warhammer rules/edition changes also, uh, cost money, do they not? You can reuse your minis but there's a new codex and you pay for it. Unless I'm mistaken.  guts and bolts posted:And because the game isn't just minis and rulebooks - there's a huge element of cardboard and idiosyncratic move templates and such - comparing X-Wing 1:1 with other miniatures games is itself very silly. Gumdrop Larry posted:I suppose it's a flaw with the general design of both X-Wing and wargames in general. In an ideal world you wouldn't be rolling anything and the numbers would be static, but that would require a very different game structure that would be significantly harder to balance or even simply conceptualize in the first place. A lot of the old Avalon Hill hex'n'chit wargames were fully deterministic, with stack value comparison determining combat on fucktons of charts. It was... problematic. The rules didn't really have a logical way to deal with "all my panzers are in one stack and the chart doesn't go that high".
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2018 21:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 13:26 |
|
|
On the flip side with GW games, each new edition rules update in such a way as to invalidate the strongest units in the game, and then each codex roll out adds new unseen previously units that highlight new rules and are blatantly overpowered on the tabletop. Maybe 8th changed that, but from 3e - 7e when I quit it was absolutely the case. If all you do is play at home, sure, pull out your old army and point it up in the new edition, you're fine. Want any new things or to play in an event? Shell out hundreds of dollars, since the model boxes keep increasing in price and decreasing in model count/point value per box.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2018 16:40
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:It's what the Wings of War system that X-wing is based on used. There were little tubs of cardboard tokens, A through E. Planes auto-fired and had a damage code like "2A 1C" which meant you took two tokens from the A tub and 1 from the C tub. I don't remember them particularly well, but any given token could have everything from blank sides to critical hit effects and you just dug around and grabbed however many you needed and then put them on your plane's planning card without replacing them into the tubs. X-Wing's way is honestly far better. No, imo that sounds much better to me, a lot like the "dice deck" i've used for games like Settlers where a little bit of variance can result in a big swing of who's going to win. With the chit-pull system, if you get lovely results for a while you know the good results are just in there waiting to be pulled. It's probably less "realistic" but it creates yet another level of risk to consider when you're making maneuvers. quote:A lot of the old Avalon Hill hex'n'chit wargames were fully deterministic, with stack value comparison determining combat on fucktons of charts. It was... problematic. The rules didn't really have a logical way to deal with "all my panzers are in one stack and the chart doesn't go that high". All of my AH games used dice, like, all of them. You add up your stack totals and consult a combat results table and you roll against an odds-based column. Usually 3:1 odds were what you needed to ensure a decent result for any attack. If there were hex-and-counter games from the classic AH days that didn't use dice, those seem like oddities more than anything. Not trying to be pedantic, I'd really like to know what games you're referring to as they seem like they might be interesting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2018 17:09
|
|
|
Finster Dexter posted:No, imo that sounds much better to me, a lot like the "dice deck" i've used for games like Settlers where a little bit of variance can result in a big swing of who's going to win. With the chit-pull system, if you get lovely results for a while you know the good results are just in there waiting to be pulled. It's probably less "realistic" but it creates yet another level of risk to consider when you're making maneuvers. The Gate posted:On the flip side with GW games, each new edition rules update in such a way as to invalidate the strongest units in the game, and then each codex roll out adds new unseen previously units that highlight new rules and are blatantly overpowered on the tabletop. Maybe 8th changed that, but from 3e - 7e when I quit it was absolutely the case. If all you do is play at home, sure, pull out your old army and point it up in the new edition, you're fine. Want any new things or to play in an event? Shell out hundreds of dollars, since the model boxes keep increasing in price and decreasing in model count/point value per box.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2018 22:36
|
|
|
I think it would've been nice to have different kinds of attack dice ala armada so a fighter can have more than two reasonable possible attack values but i think that ship has sailed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2018 22:48
|
|
|
Panzeh posted:I think it would've been nice to have different kinds of attack dice ala armada so a fighter can have more than two reasonable possible attack values but i think that ship has sailed. That's my biggest disappointment with X-Wing 2.0, Legion and even Armada do dice way better than X-Wing, it's almost like they've learned something...
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
I rather like how Imperial Assault handles shooting, but that's just Descent's dice mechanic with different symbols on the dice.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2018 23:44
|
|
|
They prob could have done it like Armada if all they did was add blue or black dice without changing the current reds. But changing the dice we currently have in any way would have hundreds of people screaming "muh regional/worlds dice!!" Esp the ones who ebayed them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 02:02
|
|
|
Maybe 3rd edition can do that, and they can skip dice in tournament kits for a few years?
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 02:29
|
|
|
YMMV, but a couple of Barnes & Nobles have X-Wing stuff on clearance*. I’m up near Cleveland, Ohio at the moment and the local store had TIEs, YV-666s, and Ghosts in the clearance section. *30% off
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 02:30
|
|
|
gently caress it, go all in and use the Edge of the Empire dice. Get the real narrative experience! I would legit play a fleshed out tournament like that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 02:37
|
|
|
My shop is holding a "rules as written" Goodbye to 1.0 tournament,. Meaning no FAQ What is the most broken poo poo I can bring
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 04:47
|
|
|
Raged posted:My shop is holding a "rules as written" Goodbye to 1.0 tournament,. Meaning no FAQ Anyone who has a weapon that CAN shoot Biggs is gonna be forced to shoot Biggs, so Fair Ship Rebels is probably solid as a rock.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 05:13
|
|
|
I see two other dumb options: Dengaroo Whisper with a palpatine in a reaper and your choice of third ship (Inquisitor fits nicely)
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 05:16
|
|
|
Ein Sexmonster posted:I see two other dumb options: Dengaroo just gets murdered by Fenn/Ghost. Whisper just gets murdered by bombs, especially advanced slam + cluster mines (or proxy) K-Wings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 05:19
|
|
|
I put together a second edition Rebel alpha strike list. It rolls up to 20 red dice in a round, all at I6, with mods on all but one shot, and double mods on most. The trick is you need to aim for range 2 to make the most of it. https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel%...a%20Strike&obs=
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 05:20
|
|
|
that sounds awful why would anyone want to play in that. "sick of 1.0 yet? heres the absolute worst cesspit of 1.0!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 05:42
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:that sounds awful why would anyone want to play in that. "sick of 1.0 yet? heres the absolute worst cesspit of 1.0!" Because I know the exact poo poo they'll bring out because they think it's OP and unbeatable, I'll trot out my killer list, and push their poo poo in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 06:23
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:that sounds awful why would anyone want to play in that. "sick of 1.0 yet? heres the absolute worst cesspit of 1.0!" Yeah, I am trying to get it put back to a regular 1.0 tournament. Our regular TO isn't going to be there so they will want me to do it and no frickin way am a spending the whole day dealing with that mess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 06:29
|
|
|
ConfusedUs posted:I put together a second edition Rebel alpha strike list. It rolls up to 20 red dice in a round, all at I6, with mods on all but one shot, and double mods on most. The trick is you need to aim for range 2 to make the most of it. im pretty sure Swarm Tactics is gonna be the mvp talent of the new edition. at least until they cave and add more power creep cards
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 08:13
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:im pretty sure Swarm Tactics is gonna be the mvp talent of the new edition. I've been searching for each faction's answer to the TIE Bomber swarm. Originally I thought Rebels were going to be a four-ship damage spreading list, like Fair Ship Rebels from 1.0, but I haven't found one that wins reliably. So I thought: what if I just kill a couple of them before they shoot? And this list was born. I can't find the equivalent for Imperials (I can do it at Init 4 and 5 easily) because only Soontir and Vader are I6. Soontir doesn't have munitions slots and Vader can't take Swarm Tactics. Scum can do it at I6 with either Dengar or Fenn as the base, but it doesn't have the same action economy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 15:28
|
|
|
ConfusedUs posted:And this list was born. What list
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 15:52
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:What list https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel%...a%20Strike&obs=
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 15:55
|
|
|
ConfusedUs posted:I've been searching for each faction's answer to the TIE Bomber swarm. Originally I thought Rebels were going to be a four-ship damage spreading list, like Fair Ship Rebels from 1.0, but I haven't found one that wins reliably. Does the initiative from Wedge pass to all of the ships with swarm?
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 16:12
|
|
|
Raged posted:Does the initiative from Wedge pass to all of the ships with swarm? It daisy chains. Wedge passes his I6 to Airen, who passes it to Garven, who passes it to the Bandit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
Oh ok, so sounds like meta = solved, then? Looks like my choices are... TIE Bomber swarm or
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 21:23
|
|
|
Finster Dexter posted:Oh ok, so sounds like meta = solved, then? Looks like my choices are... TIE Bomber swarm or I don't think the meta is solved. There could easily be something we haven't stumbled upon yet. But, right now, it looks like there are two truths: 1) Lists that focus on jousting and efficient bodies are the most consistent lists. 2) Barrage Rocket TIE Bomber swarms are the most consistent and efficient among that archetype. Arc dodgers are in a good place, conceptually. They're the natural predators of arc-based jousting lists, but they've (mostly) lost the two things that gave them consistency: double reposition and token stacking. Without those it only takes a single mistake to lose an ace. That's rough! Turret ships are in probably the worst place, overall. They're expensive and can die in a single round to a swarm. But efficiency swarms: they can make a mistake, lose a ship or two, and still come out ahead in the long term. Neither of the other two main archetypes can say that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2018 21:40
|
|
|
Heads up, I went to my local Barnes and Noble looking for discounted ships. I only found a YV-666 but when I went on their website they had TIE Advanced Prototypes, Y-Wings, and T-65s/T-70s at 50% off. The salesperson told me it was cool to order them online for store pickup and then just grab them right off the shelf. In case anyone was looking to grab some extra ships before 2.0 drops.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
Supernatural aces and Boba+Fenn Rau+something lists are going to impact the meta significantly. Thinking that efficiency-based swarm lists have solved the meta is lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
I think it's very hard to say there is any kind of 2.0 meta at all yet to start solving. Until enough players have the game in their hands all we have is anecdotal information and theoretical number crunching.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 07:13
|
|
|
Boba + Guri + Escape Craft with white coordinate  Edit: Composure looks very good on Guri, and Heroic looks like you'd staple it to the escape craft. hoiyes fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Aug 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 08:16
|
|
|
Official tournaments will only be using Wave 1 type ships until the others are released, won't they? So bombers and Z-95s won't be present in the meta Edit: VVV oh that owns alg fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Aug 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 12:51
|
|
|
alg posted:Official tournaments will only be using Wave 1 type ships until the others are released, won't they? So bombers and Z-95s won't be present in the meta It's an alternate format for the wave kits. Not a required format.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 13:04
|
|
|
KongGeorgeVII posted:I think it's very hard to say there is any kind of 2.0 meta at all yet to start solving. Until enough players have the game in their hands all we have is anecdotal information and theoretical number crunching. Which is why lists based purely on crunching numbers or maximizing rolled dice are being touted as meta-defining right now, which, you know, maybe? Like the Swarm Tactics list engages at I6, but doesn't activate there except for Wedge, and that is... really important??? I'm not saying that these lists are bad, or that coming up with what you think could be strong based on the information you have available (lots of numbers, lots of card text) is bad. Where it becomes bad is when there's little/no acknowledgement of the gaps in lists made this way, or when people go into the game assuming jousting swarms with ordnance/bombs are already The Meta and play accordingly. There is no meta right now. There is no "list to beat." Do whatever you want, and tune at your discretion. There's definitely things that are better than others, but the amount of stuff that's viable seems exhaustive, so maybe pump the breaks on the cascading assumptions of what will be good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 14:15
|
|
|
Back in V1's first wave, a dude in my local scene was very concerned that Swarm tactics would break the game. Not super worried about it this time, either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 15:39
|
|
|
hoiyes posted:Boba + Guri + Escape Craft with white coordinate Heroic is Resistance-only AFAIK
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 18:00
|
|
|
So word is that the Regionals kit that used to cost $160 now costs $500 
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 19:30
|
|
|
But they haven't announced the next regional kit yet? If that's the case, maybe they've tripled the amount of content, making sure everybody who participates walks away with something cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
uncle blog posted:But they haven't announced the next regional kit yet? If that's the case, maybe they've tripled the amount of content, making sure everybody who participates walks away with something cool. I would be happy if that's the case but I have severe doubts
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 13:26 |
|
|
Finster Dexter posted:Oh ok, so sounds like meta = solved, then? Looks like my choices are... TIE Bomber swarm or 2e swarm tactics conga line doesn't work. It doesn't actually change your initiative, it just lets you activate at a different initiative. uncle blog posted:But they haven't announced the next regional kit yet? If that's the case, maybe they've tripled the amount of content, making sure everybody who participates walks away with something cool. They have though. It's not called regionals anymore, it's called like... hyperspace qualifier I think. hoiyes posted:Boba + Guri + Escape Craft with white coordinate Can't put composure on Guri, requires Focus action. -- loving Nationals. That's all I'm gonna say. Ugh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2018 22:00
|
|
