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garycoleisgod posted:The slow speed chase is also silly from the viewpoint that the rebels can't escape, except people leave and return to the chase over the course of the movie. There’s nothing wrong with the bare concept, and even the tactical stuff is fairly unimportant. The issue is all characterization. For example: does anyone at the end of the film know about Rose’s secret plan, which is the entire motivation for Poe’s mutiny? It’s completely unclear. Nobody seems to question how Rose and FN got inside an imperial shuttle. Leia gave her inspirational speech about not trying to look like a hero but, from Poe’s perspective, Holdo has just killed everyone with a bad gambit - the assumption, now obviously false, that “the First Order was tracking our big ship. They're not monitoring small transports.” Poe has no clue that his bad opsec is why the cloaking failed. He should still be furious at Holdo. Also, again, it does appear that Holdo deliberately sacrificed the crews of the two smaller ships by withholding information. This means that Poe was right and should still be pissed: “We had a fleet, now we're down to one ship and you've told us nothing!” So, like, is Leia aware of this? If you track the characters, it never clear what they actually know. Rey certainly has no clue what’s up at the end.
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Aug 30, 2018 14:18
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Wheat Loaf posted:I acknowledge that to some extent the figures are skewed because I think TFA actually over-performed most expectations but the fact is that when your second movie's take drops three-quarters of a billion dollars from the first, even if it has done very well by any other metric (it was still the number-one movie of the year), it still plays into that particular narrative you mentioned earlier. It's happened to both trilogy "sequels" previously. It's nothing new. Both ESB and AotC came in much less than their predecessors. The third movies then ticked up a tad bit more than the middle episodes. Here's the adjusted numbers precentages: AotC earned 61% of TPM ($482/786M) ESB has earned 55% of ANH ($731/1,323M) for comparison TLJ earned 62% of TFA ($626/1,002M) Clearly ESB is much bigger failure, being unable to live up to ANH. Your first movie is a massive hit and you barely make half the money it did? Shameful. If ESB was truly a good movie it would have taken in way more. 
Teek fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Aug 30, 2018 |
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Aug 30, 2018 15:04
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In decades past it was understood and accepted in the industry that sequels were not expected to make quite as much as their predecessors, it was a fact of life. When something fresh and new hits the scene, and audiences respond to it, it's not realistic to expect to fully reproduce those results with a sequel because by definition you're giving people something less original than what came before. When exactly that changed I'm not sure, but now it's almost like a sequel has to surpass the original or it's used as a justification to shut the series down or do something drastic like a reboot.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:09
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Teek posted:If ESB was truly a good movie it would have taken in way more. This is true, more money = better than, which is why fans are still buzzing about the best movie of all time *checks notes* James Cameron's "Avatar".
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Aug 30, 2018 15:13
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Basebf555 posted:When exactly that changed I'm not sure, but now it's almost like a sequel has to surpass the original or it's used as a justification to shut the series down or do something drastic like a reboot. The only trilogy that occurs to me which successively increased its take with each instalment is the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Contrast with the Hobbit where all three did more or less the same with the first one being a little bit higher than the other two.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:16
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Wheat Loaf posted:The only trilogy that occurs to me which successively increased its take with each instalment is the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Contrast with the Hobbit where all three did more or less the same with the first one being a little bit higher than the other two. The Alien series consistently earned in the 150-180 range all the way through Resurrection, they just kept increasing the budget so they were deemed less and less successful because there was less profit. Resurrection still made like 160 million(not bad in 1997) but by then the budget was 50+ million so that was considered not enough.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:25
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The scientifically conducted polls are a more reliable measure than the fundamentally self-selecting sample that we know was influenced by a campaign to try and give one particular view a disproportionate amount of votes. Even if all those new Rotten Tomatoes accounts were actual people (I think this is very doubtful but whatever) their sample would still be heavily skewed by that campaign and therefore worthless. Also surely TLJ's drop in takings was due to people not liking TFA by the episode IX logic?
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Aug 30, 2018 15:32
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Basebf555 posted:The Alien series consistently earned in the 150-180 range all the way through Resurrection, they just kept increasing the budget so they were deemed less and less successful because there was less profit. Resurrection still made like 160 million(not bad in 1997) but by then the budget was 50+ million so that was considered not enough. Yeah it probably broke even or a small profit on those numbers. Tho we never see number from rights related to Home media and cable.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Rey certainly has no clue what’s up at the end. ... you know, it never occured to me how weird things must look from Rey's point of view. "Hey guys, I'm back! Things didn't work out the way I planned, but Snoke's dead, his flagship's in chaos, so things are looking pretty good... Guys? Guys, where's our fleet? ...what did I miss?"
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Aug 30, 2018 15:47
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Angry Salami posted:... you know, it never occured to me how weird things must look from Rey's point of view. It’s not just her; it’s everybody. Chewbacca and R2 probably know even less than Rey does. FN and Rose have no clue why the half the ship just blew up. (Phasma has no clue, and evidently blames them for the explosion.) Is Kylo aware that his mom’s not dead?
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Aug 30, 2018 16:30
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Is Kylo aware that his mom’s not dead? Yeah, he can still see shes on Force Whatsapp.
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Aug 30, 2018 16:47
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Yeah, he can still see shes on Force Whatsapp. “Benjamin, for God’s sake, put a shirt on when you call.”
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Aug 30, 2018 16:49
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YOLOsubmarine posted:“Benjamin, for God’s sake, put a shirt on when you call.” is "Ben" short for Benjamin in the star war world?
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Aug 30, 2018 17:06
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Waffles Inc. posted:is "Ben" short for Benjamin in the star war world? Nah, it's short for Obi-Wan They named their kid Obi-Wan Solo despite having met him for all of ten minutes
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Aug 30, 2018 17:11
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They should've just called him
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Aug 30, 2018 17:19
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Vinylshadow posted:Nah, it's short for Obi-Wan he could have hung around at family gatherings as a ghost or something i wonder how present anakin, yoda and obi-wan were between ROTJ and TFA. like what's stopping Anakin from showing up in Kyle's bedroom and talking some sense into him? like he must be massively shaking his head at his loser grandson worshipping his helmet
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Aug 30, 2018 17:20
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The scientifically conducted polls are a more reliable measure than the fundamentally self-selecting sample that we know was influenced by a campaign to try and give one particular view a disproportionate amount of votes. Even if all those new Rotten Tomatoes accounts were actual people (I think this is very doubtful but whatever) their sample would still be heavily skewed by that campaign and therefore worthless. i imagine disney's internal market research people have a pretty good idea of the real state of opinion on the last jedi. if not they must really suck at their jobs!
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Aug 30, 2018 17:21
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Waffles Inc. posted:he could have hung around at family gatherings as a ghost or something I love the image of a bunch of Force Ghosts gathered around the punch bowl and lamenting the faults of today's youth
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Aug 30, 2018 17:24
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Hey remember when Chewbacca the smuggler was all howling with rage over Han’s death, and shot Kylo in the gut with a space-elephant gun. Then in this film he just unquestioningly goes on Rey’s mission to save Kylo. And then at the end, when they totally have the drop on the baddies, Chewbacca doesn’t blow up the entire First Order leadership when they’re sitting there in Kylo’s personal ship and not even moving.
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Aug 30, 2018 17:26
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He scored some good weed from the caretakers on Ach-To and it helped him mellow out. It's in the deleted scene where they go to the party.
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Aug 30, 2018 17:31
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Vinylshadow posted:I love the image of a bunch of Force Ghosts gathered around the punch bowl and lamenting the faults of today's youth Qui-Gon would be there too and he would spend the whole time dunking on anakin probably "you stupid poo poo i stuck my neck out for you"
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Aug 30, 2018 17:36
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I quite liked the little touch in avengers where thor speaks tree because he did a class at university, is wookie an easy language for Rey to pick up? Or does she mainly communicate with Chewbacca through like the offering of treats or something?
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Aug 30, 2018 17:37
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Chewbacca is helping to save Kylo because Chewy was named as executor to Han’s estate and Kylo inherited the Falcon.
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Aug 30, 2018 17:38
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Aug 30, 2018 17:41
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Teek posted:It's happened to both trilogy "sequels" previously. It's nothing new. Both ESB and AotC came in much less than their predecessors. The third movies then ticked up a tad bit more than the middle episodes. Here's the adjusted numbers precentages: Counterpoint: The Avengers and Marvel movies keep making more and more money with each subsequent release, unlike the new Star Wars films (and they're both made by the same company!); but it's always entertaining to watch Disney Star Wars fans be in denial about the awfulness of the recent films. Some of you people still believe a roughly $800 million drop (not to mention that historic second weekend drop of TLJ) between TFA and TLJ doesn't reflect the divisiveness of the film, or that it's anything but a disaster by Disney's standards. They simply didn't plan this out like they did with Marvel, and Kathleen Kennedy is certainly no Kevin Feige. And TLJ was so bad that they brought back JJ to course-correct away from that mess.
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Aug 30, 2018 18:27
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JJ finally agreed to do it. I’m sure they would have let him do 8 if he wanted.
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Aug 30, 2018 18:31
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Slutitution posted:Counterpoint: The Avengers and Marvel movies keep making more and more money with each subsequent release, unlike the new Star Wars films (and they're both made by the same company!); but it's always entertaining to watch Disney Star Wars fans be in denial about the awfulness of the recent films. Some of you people still believe a roughly $800 million drop (not to mention that historic second weekend drop of TLJ) between TFA and TLJ doesn't reflect the divisiveness of the film, or that it's anything but a disaster by Disney's standards. They simply didn't plan this out like they did with Marvel, and Kathleen Kennedy is certainly no Kevin Feige. 1) Marvel markets the MCU as a bunch of different franchises that occasionally crossover in Avengers, not one ongoing series. 2) Didn't the original director of IX leave long before VIII was released?
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Aug 30, 2018 18:35
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jivjov posted:1) Marvel markets the MCU as a bunch of different franchises that occasionally crossover in Avengers, not one ongoing series. MCU is one homogenous series and is marketed as such.
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Aug 30, 2018 18:37
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Waffles Inc. posted:Qui-Gon would be there too and he would spend the whole time dunking on anakin probably Amazingly despite 30 years of shared afterlife Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan still get into arguments about Syfo-Dyas. "Come on, Syfo-Dyas? Si-de-ous? I should have seen it at the time!" "No I'm telling you, I met that guy once at an Order barbecue. He was very, definitely real."
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Aug 30, 2018 18:37
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Slutitution posted:They simply didn't plan this out like they did with Marvel, and Kathleen Kennedy is certainly no Kevin Feige. I think this notion that Marvel's got some intricate grand plan is very overrated. It's an incredibly clever bit of marketing in itself because so many people have bought into it; people are invested enough in the idea that every movie arbitrarily "matters" that they'll go to see them on that basis alone. People probably went to see Ant-Man 2 because they thought it would follow-up Avengers 3, not because they're particularly interested in Ant-Man. I mean, look at Avengers 2. They basically let Whedon ignore Iron Man 3 for that so he could write Tony Stark the same way he did in Avengers 1. They clearly had big plans for the Inhumans and then shunted them off to television. I'd be surprised if Feige's "master plan" amounts to anything more than a list of movie titles on a poster on the wall of his office with the absolute broadest strokes of a plot laid out. Of course ever MCU movie isn't painstakingly and intricately planned out in the service of this grand narrative, but the fact that so many people are convinced otherwise is proof that the marketing's worked. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Aug 30, 2018 |
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Aug 30, 2018 18:47
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Harime Nui posted:Amazingly despite 30 years of shared afterlife Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan still get into arguments about Syfo-Dyas. Syfo Dyas was a real person, they found his body in Clone Wars.
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Aug 30, 2018 18:49
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Slutitution posted:Counterpoint: The Avengers and Marvel movies keep making more and more money with each subsequent release, unlike the new Star Wars films (and they're both made by the same company!); but it's always entertaining to watch Disney Star Wars fans be in denial about the awfulness of the recent films. My listed numbers were American box office only, since international is a much different beast this last decade than when the OT and PT originally came out. MCU are doing great worldwide, it's a bit more mixed if you just stick to American BO. Looking at the adjusted American grosses, Marvel's follow up sequels are solid but nothing amazing, either barely making more or making less than the first. Age of Ultron made less than the first Avengers, Iron Man 2 made less than IM 1, Thor 2 made $20M more than 1, Guardians 2 $18M more than 1, Ant-Man and Wasp $10M more than 1. You then have the rare sequel which makes a lot more, like Winter Soldier which was much better received than the first movie. Then you have some third movies which hit big, like IM 3, Ragnarok and Civil war. Finally you have the titles which hit the right audiences like Black Panther. So in total it's a much more mixed bag than that and not tied into any major growth over time. The MCU's highest grossing movie adjusted gross wise is still Avengers, and it came out in 2012. Black Panther and IW are now just finally getting close to matching it and they still will fall short.
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Aug 30, 2018 18:51
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We were just asking about MCU fatigue after ... civil war ?
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Aug 30, 2018 18:53
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Harime Nui posted:Amazingly despite 30 years of shared afterlife Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan still get into arguments about Syfo-Dyas. And I'm sure Yoda has all kinds of flattering tales of Jedi to gossip about
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Aug 30, 2018 18:53
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:MCU is one homogenous series and is marketed as such. 
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Aug 30, 2018 18:54
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Basebf555 posted:Syfo Dyas was a real person, they found his body in Clone Wars. Was it a clone of Sheev
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Aug 30, 2018 18:54
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RBA Starblade posted:Was it a clone of Sheev No, that's Sheeev you're thinking of.
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Aug 30, 2018 18:58
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"I have all these memories..... none of them really happened. I don't know what that means." "It means that only you can decide who you are, Syfo."
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Aug 30, 2018 18:58
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It's Sifo-Dyas, by the way
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Aug 30, 2018 19:00
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I have altered the spelling. Pray I do not alter it any father.
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Aug 30, 2018 19:01
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