|
Michaels inability to understand basic concepts of what is and is not good (such as his solution of how to kill all the people in the trolley problem) are hilarious but it's also one of the few parts in the show where it seems to not fit with what we have previously seen. The Michael who comes up with that solution would have accidentally given away that they were in the Bad Place within a couple of episodes of the first season.
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 04:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:21 |
|
|
Senor Tron posted:Michaels inability to understand basic concepts of what is and is not good (such as his solution of how to kill all the people in the trolley problem) are hilarious but it's also one of the few parts in the show where it seems to not fit with what we have previously seen. The Michael who comes up with that solution would have accidentally given away that they were in the Bad Place within a couple of episodes of the first season. At that point he's reflexively-or-otherwise loving with Chidi for giggles. As evidenced by, you know, the rest of his trolley problem work that episode.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 05:09
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:Was rereading the thread, and between the Donkey Doug episode title (who is one of Jason's very stupid Earthside friends) and the Doug guy who successfully identified the nature of the afterlife, I'm suddenly very curious about that ep. Donkey Doug is a Floridian while that Doug was a random Edmontonian I believe.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 05:35
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Donkey Doug is a Floridian while that Doug was a random Edmontonian I believe. He could be a snowbird. Also, Eleanor's dad is a third Doug, which I think is officially too many Dougs to be a coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 14:16
|
|
|
Whiz Palace posted:He could be a snowbird. I think the writers just like the name Doug and think it's funny.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
Speaking of the Trolley Problem, is it just me or did Michael's "solution" to the problem make no goddamn sense? He was like "You sacrifice yourself!", only the entire thing is built around having to pick between 1: Staying on your current path or 2: Diverting to another path. There's no option to give your own life instead, it's an entirely different scenario then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
PantsBandit posted:Speaking of the Trolley Problem, is it just me or did Michael's "solution" to the problem make no goddamn sense? He was like "You sacrifice yourself!", only the entire thing is built around having to pick between 1: Staying on your current path or 2: Diverting to another path. There's no option to give your own life instead, it's an entirely different scenario then. I mean, it depends on the details, really. If you're big enough, you can absolutely do the "Fat Man" variant by jumping off the bridge yourself.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
PantsBandit posted:Speaking of the Trolley Problem, is it just me or did Michael's "solution" to the problem make no goddamn sense? He was like "You sacrifice yourself!", only the entire thing is built around having to pick between 1: Staying on your current path or 2: Diverting to another path. There's no option to give your own life instead, it's an entirely different scenario then. I guess the equivalent is you sabotage the trolley
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
MaxieSatan posted:I mean, it depends on the details, really. If you're big enough, you can absolutely do the "Fat Man" variant by jumping off the bridge yourself. You could add or subtract any parts of the scenario you want, but the whole point of the Trolley Problem thought exercise is to get you to think about moral relativism and whether it can be considered "moral" to cause a few deaths if you can avoid more. If there's an option to give your own life instead it completely defeats the purpose of the exercise because obviously that is the most moral thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 19:48
|
|
|
Yeah, my general take on the the Trolley problem has always been, try to Batman. You are probably going to gently caress it up, but you chose to try and save both of them and nobody can find too much fault with that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 19:50
|
|
|
remusclaw posted:Yeah, my general take on the the Trolley problem has always been, try to Batman. You are probably going to gently caress it up, but you chose to try and save both of them and nobody can find too much fault with that. Unless you gently caress up and kill both groups and maybe a bystander or two
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 20:04
|
|
|
PantsBandit posted:You could add or subtract any parts of the scenario you want, but the whole point of the Trolley Problem thought exercise is to get you to think about moral relativism and whether it can be considered "moral" to cause a few deaths if you can avoid more. If there's an option to give your own life instead it completely defeats the purpose of the exercise because obviously that is the most moral thing to do. Which is what Michael was saying. Why create a dilemma that doesn't need to exist when there's an obvious (from his POV, anyway) solution?
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:Unless you gently caress up and kill both groups and maybe a bystander or two Pulling an accidental Michael is a consolation prize then I guess. Still, you tried. Also, yes, it is a complete cheat answer that goes out of it's way to ignore the spirit and intent of the exercise for the sake of being a smart rear end, but whatever. I don't believe in no win scenarios. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Aug 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 20:39
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:At that point he's reflexively-or-otherwise loving with Chidi for giggles. As evidenced by, you know, the rest of his trolley problem work that episode. And a lot of it is Michael lashing out because he's genuinely having trouble with the material, especially with Chidi getting cocky.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 20:46
|
|
|
NowonSA posted:Just rewatched Trolley Problem again, alongside chunks of other episodes, but drat Trolley still gets me laughing on a rewatch which most shows don't. Mike's drawing at the beginning really got me and then the Trolley simulations just kept the funny going. Michael's drawn solution is legitimately my favourite joke in the entire show.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 21:06
|
|
|
MaxieSatan posted:Which is what Michael was saying. Why create a dilemma that doesn't need to exist when there's an obvious (from his POV, anyway) solution? From that perspective though "I use my super-strength to lift the trolley out of the way, saving everyone" is just as legitimate an answer. Either you're going to engage with the scenario on its terms or you're not. If you think he was trying to say "don't torture yourself by contemplating unwinnable situations", I guess that's a legitimate read of the scene. It's just not the same impression I got.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 21:12
|
|
|
PantsBandit posted:From that perspective though "I use my super-strength to lift the trolley out of the way, saving everyone" is just as legitimate an answer. Either you're going to engage with the scenario on its terms or you're not. But he says that at a moment when he does have an opportunity to sacrifice himself i have no idea what you're talking about
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 21:30
|
|
|
His situation is not analogous to the trolley problem 
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 21:38
|
|
|
Toast Museum posted:His situation is not analogous to the trolley problem The Trolley problem ceases to be analogous to the Trolley problem once it is no longer a hypothetical.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 21:41
|
|
|
Regy Rusty posted:But he says that at a moment when he does have an opportunity to sacrifice himself Yes and what I'm saying is at that moment his situation does not resemble the Trolley Problem anymore and when he says "I solved the Trolley Problem" he's really just making up nonsense. Which does totally fit with his character's extremely loose understanding of moral philosophy. remusclaw posted:The Trolley problem ceases to be analogous to the Trolley problem once it is no longer a hypothetical. I don't think this is true. The reason The Trolley Problem works in so many forms is because at its core it's just about having to choose between the lesser of two evils. There are lots of real-life situations where this is the case. It does stop being analogous when there is an option with no moral downsides though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 21:46
|
|
|
PantsBandit posted:
The reason I say this, is actually illustrated nicely in the Trolley problem episode. Once the hypothetical becomes real, it no longer is a simple this or that question. For one there are the consequences to be dealt with, there is also suddenly a deadline fast approaching where before it was an issue to ponder, further, made real, the trolley problem no longer exists within the same context it did previously; Why is it happening? Did someone do this intentionally? What options do you have immediately available? Which of those options are pointless time wasters? How do you know? Do you have the options spelled out for you like in the problem? Can you trust that you have been given all the information? Chiidi's problem of not being able to make choices balloons out of control because what was once an already scary, this or that question immediately becomes a lot more complicated.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:Michael's drawn solution is legitimately my favourite joke in the entire show. Same. The guy being decapitated and saying “you got us all, great work!” is just the icing on the cake.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 02:11
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:Michael's drawn solution is legitimately my favourite joke in the entire show. Mine has to be at this point: "Jake...." "Don't say Jortles." "Jortles!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
PantsBandit posted:From that perspective though "I use my super-strength to lift the trolley out of the way, saving everyone" is just as legitimate an answer. Either you're going to engage with the scenario on its terms or you're not.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
I have belatedly gotten around to starting the podcast. It is good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
The show mostly focuses on the trolley problem as a thought experiment about what is ethically required/permitted/forbidden, a big part of what's interesting about the problem is the aspect that they sort of gloss over: it highlights how murky and seemingly contradictory our moral intuitions are. You can change the story in ways that don't appear to alter its ethical stakes and get significantly different responses from people. I guess you could argue that the whole framework is so divorced from reality that comparing responses to different versions is a meaningless exercise, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 04:17
|
|
|
This is really bizarre for me. I majored in philosophy and wrote my thesis on the usefulness and limitations of thought experiments. I focused on epistemology and philosphy of natural science, and now a show about ethics is directly colliding into that field. I doubt anyone actually wants to read it, but I have been meaning to go through some old backup hard drives and clean them up. I will post a link to the paper if there is interest.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 05:00
|
|
|
So the whole hypothetical thought experiment nature of the trolley problem is what you all are saying is important. The people on the tracks are neither here not there, its your response to the problem and whatever that reveals about your morality that are important. So my morality is being judged on the basis of an impossible no win situation. I would murder the person posing the question to me and conceal any evidence the problem was ever put to me thereby preventing any judgement on my morality or otherwise. Repeat as often as is required.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 05:09
|
|
|
Toast Museum posted:The show mostly focuses on the trolley problem as a thought experiment about what is ethically required/permitted/forbidden, a big part of what's interesting about the problem is the aspect that they sort of gloss over: it highlights how murky and seemingly contradictory our moral intuitions are. You can change the story in ways that don't appear to alter its ethical stakes and get significantly different responses from people. I guess you could argue that the whole framework is so divorced from reality that comparing responses to different versions is a meaningless exercise, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Yeah, the thing that most people don't realoze ever since the trolley problem became a thing on the Internet is that the point on the exercise isn't actually to ask "what would you do?" It's to expose the fact that our instinctual morals don't really follow a logical set of rules, and moral philosophies do a pretty lousy job of emulating our instincts.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 14:00
|
|
|
The train between Places should just be a trolley
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 15:12
|
|
|
D'Arcy Carden, horny for stunts. Also they played the most  scene in the series. Michael admitting Janet is his oldest and truest friend gets me every time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 17:50
|
|
|
Zooks is on next episode and I am legit excited. He really was perfectly cast for the role.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
swickles posted:focused on epistemology and philosphy of natural science, and now a show about ethics is directly colliding into that field. I doubt anyone actually wants to read it, but I have been meaning to go through some old backup hard drives and clean them up. I will post a link to the paper if there is interest. just post my college made everybody take religion and philosophy classes and boy i did not ever expect a broadcast sitcom to come along where half the jokes seem to come from an alternate universe where byob is populated by philosophers and theologians
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 22:12
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:D'Arcy Carden, horny for stunts. Also (almost) knows the Konami Code 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 22:14
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:D'Arcy Carden, horny for stunts. I came to post this, too. That is my favorite moment in the series so far. Plus, the wheel of random objects!
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 22:39
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:D'Arcy Carden, horny for stunts. This show is earnest and sweet and I adore it. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2018 01:32
|
|
|
I joined a fantasy football league with some friends and have literally no idea what I’m doing. I set everything to auto draft for me except Blake Bortles. Bortles!
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
I hope your team name is Team Cockroach.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2018 04:52
|
|
|
Bobcats would also be an acceptable team name.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2018 06:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 00:21 |
|
|
This show is fantastic, which is shocking given NBC's typical fare. I hope this season or next involves some meaningful questioning of the moral authority of their judges and the severity of the punishment for being deemed "bad".
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2018 04:34
|
|