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20 years ago was 1998, and most people know it was around then at least.
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Sep 1, 2018 16:14
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Osmosisch posted:Yeah, I applaud the intent if not the implementation of the change. yeah, but like, it's the most woo thing imaginable. like, when ibm wanted to use jslint, this happened: quote:About once a year, I get a letter from a lawyer, every year a different lawyer, at a company – I don’t want to embarrass the company by saying their name, so I’ll just say their initials – IBM… it's ok to be against ice and its policies. writing down a bunch of words in a software license for a random javascript project to combat it is magical thinking and does nothing but waste people's time (the typescript team, which works at microsoft, could not touch lerna because of this https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/25376) - plus it's open source, not "open except for a bunch of people i don't like" source.
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Sep 1, 2018 16:14
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Thanks for restating my post I guess.
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Sep 1, 2018 16:50
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Real activism is hard, so why bother when you can get your endorphins by slacktivism instead?
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Sep 1, 2018 19:00
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bigmandan posted:Code licensing horrors belong here too right?... https://github.com/lerna/lerna/pull/1616 Kind of funny to refuse Microsoft from licensing on a service owned by Microsoft.
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Sep 1, 2018 19:13
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Boycotts in software licensing is basically a form of economic boycotting. Of course boycotts are a form of activism through doing nothing.
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Sep 1, 2018 19:38
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comedyblissoption posted:Boycotts in software licensing is basically a form of economic boycotting. if you were buying a thing and now you don't buy it, you are the only substantive part of the boycott and you did do something
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Sep 1, 2018 19:42
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Also keep in mind that boycotts in software licensing and usage are not unusual. It's done in economic sanctions on other countries all the time.
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Sep 1, 2018 19:45
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my left-pad implementation shall NOT be used by ISIS or any ISIS subcontractors!!! hah, take that!
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Sep 1, 2018 19:59
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:plus it's open source, not "open except for a bunch of people i don't like" source.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:59
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SupSuper posted:Wasn't open source started exactly to get back at a bunch of people nerds don't like? Nah that was free software
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Sep 1, 2018 21:25
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Ola posted:20 years ago was 1998, and most people know it was around then at least. My point is more it was a well established language with many years of usage by then...
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Sep 1, 2018 21:29
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feedmegin posted:My point is more it was a well established language with many years of usage by then... Oh sure, I agree. "C++ 98" seems by semantic structure to be the 1998 version of something that came before. You probably wouldn't launch a new thing under that name, although knowing mathematics' and computer science's penchant for unhelpful nomenclature, perhaps it wouldn't be out of character.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:38
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comedyblissoption posted:Also keep in mind that boycotts in software licensing and usage are not unusual. It's done in economic sanctions on other countries all the time. It's illegal to exclude Israel from software licenses.
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Sep 1, 2018 22:11
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"Hmm, this local restaurant menu page is so slow to load. I wonder why?" * views source * code:
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Sep 1, 2018 23:05
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:plus it's open source, not "open except for a bunch of people i don't like" source. What do you mean, and how is it different from "this product is licensed for use everywhere except Iran, North Korea, and $enemyoftheweek"?
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Sep 2, 2018 01:31
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Lumpy posted:"Hmm, this local restaurant menu page is so slow to load. I wonder why?" now thats a spicy meatball !!
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Sep 2, 2018 03:36
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SupSuper posted:Wasn't open source started exactly to get back at a bunch of people nerds don't like? Nah it was started to get rid of the political bits of the free software movement and make it more friendly to capitalism. quote:The Open Source Initiative chose the term "open source," in founding member Michael Tiemann's words, to "dump the moralizing and confrontational attitude that had been associated with 'free software'" and instead promote open source ideas on "pragmatic, business-case grounds."
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Sep 2, 2018 04:31
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megalodong posted:Nah it was started to get rid of the political bits of the free software movement and make it more friendly to capitalism. The free market works edit: OSI "Open source" was basically the embrace+extend+extinguish of the free software movement huh? xtal fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 09:56
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Weatherman posted:What do you mean, and how is it different from "this product is licensed for use everywhere except Iran, North Korea, and $enemyoftheweek"? that's magical thinking too and also stupid. like north korea gives a gently caress about your software license.
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Sep 2, 2018 16:01
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:that's magical thinking too and also stupid. like north korea gives a gently caress about your software license. Clearly we shouldn't have laws at all if north korea isn't going to abide by them. Chemical weapons for everyone!
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Sep 2, 2018 17:17
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xtal posted:The free market works 100%, and it basically worked. Modern open source software is a pretty good example of “privatize the gains and socialize the losses” by farming out the underlying libraries and boring infrastructure parts of development to the unpaid masses so that people can build on them to make $$$
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Sep 2, 2018 17:59
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Just found out ESR co-founded OSI and things are starting to make a lot more sense
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Sep 2, 2018 18:11
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uncurable mlady posted:100%, and it basically worked. Modern open source software is a pretty good example of “privatize the gains and socialize the losses” by farming out the underlying libraries and boring infrastructure parts of development to the unpaid masses so that people can build on them to make $$$ what're you talking about? what proportion of open source devs do you believe are unpaid?
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Sep 2, 2018 18:39
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yah, for open source dealies that are actually used it's nearly all peeps gettin paid at their bigcorp job to do open source or gettin paid (sometimes much less, sometimes just as much as a big computer toucher) from a foundation or hitting large contracts from the credibility from saying, "i made this poo poo, i can support it" they hosed this up in the specific case of openssl but openssl is a huge fuckup in all other ways too, you know some of it is even more "publicize the gains privatize the losses" in the case of the bigcorps. of course they don't do this for charitable reasons (it's to choke other bigcorps and mediumcorps and in the case of the actual programmers, to try to get famous), but us peasants can glean the remainders
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Sep 2, 2018 18:53
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brap posted:what're you talking about? what proportion of open source devs do you believe are unpaid? Probably over 99% due to the massive quantity of open source software projects?
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Sep 2, 2018 18:56
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"that are actually used" is a very very important modifier in that one
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Sep 2, 2018 18:57
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A significant amount of open source work is unpaid, and generally, those are the good parts.
xtal fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 19:19
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Extremely important, mission critical open source software is maintained by tiny unpaid teams as small as one person. And I don't mean leftpad, I mean the bash shell, OpenSSL. People mock them for their bad code and easily preventable bugs, but nobody thought to throw any help their way for decades, even when using their software daily and basing their entire businesses on them Similarly, the ubiquitous time zone database is a text file maintained by a dwindling team of graybeards that may have been whittled down to a single person (don't remember), and similarly small and forgotten teams maintain other pieces of critical infrastructure hackbunny fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 01:14
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Lumpy posted:"Hmm, this local restaurant menu page is so slow to load. I wonder why?" That's actually fine, the font aren't loaded until they are used. Now using 160 fonts on one page is a different matter.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:31
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Nobody wants to pay for maintenance. And (at least partially in consequence) few people want to work on maintenance. So it's no surprise that mission-critical poo poo is all but abandoned.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:33
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hackbunny posted:Extremely important, mission critical open source software is maintained by tiny unpaid teams as small as one person. And I don't mean leftpad, I mean the bash shell, OpenSSL. People mock them for their bad code and easily preventable bugs, but nobody thought to throw any help their way for decades, even when using their software daily and basing their entire businesses on them I agree, but isn't the tz database maintained by ICANN now? General point certainly stands though.
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Sep 3, 2018 02:39
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Ola posted:20 years ago was 1998, and most people know it was around then at least. 30 years ago i was at college and probably just got my first Commodore Amiga 500 38 Years ago i just got my first computer, a ZX81 with 16k ram pack
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Sep 3, 2018 06:54
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Can somebody here educate me about Python machine learning reading from CSV being faster than having all data within database? As - why would you need a CSV if you can access given dataset from / manipulate given dataset on DB? That's apparently something that will be done - either DB will be kept in synchronization with CSV datasets (probably, as the data needs to be accessed from other places as well), or operations will be performed on CSVs and it just makes me wonder whyyyyyyy
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Sep 3, 2018 13:31
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canis minor posted:Can somebody here educate me about Python machine learning reading from CSV being faster than having all data within database? As - why would you need a CSV if you can access given dataset from / manipulate given dataset on DB? It’s - data-scientists aren’t engineers, - databases aren’t in the right machines memory, and it needs to be transferred to the right machine, doing this over the network every time you re run your model would be slowwwww - numpy and pandas can read from a csv into memory much faster than the database can transmit over the wire - it’s portable and can easily be read and analysed in excel - it’s not always csv, but csv is very common because of the portability Horse Clocks fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 13:53
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Anybody who can do data science can learn SQL.
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Sep 3, 2018 14:38
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Horse Clocks posted:It’s Thank you very much! I should have added a disclaimer that people responsible for this have access to database and knows how to act on it, which addresses a couple of points you brought up. So, it's the matter of transferring datasets, which I guess, yes, there's a point there. I guess, if it run on the same box, would there still be much difference? (let's assume that data is read-only for machine learning algorithms, but will indeed change at any point after the algorithms are run) From my perspective memory for datasets will still have to be reserved even if you operate on flat files vs database, so you're still allocating similar amount of memory (and that's the only thing that I could think of if accessing file datasets vs database datasets). Yeah, there's overhead for database, but that's only once... unless those algorithms are doing selects for every cell that they need to access, because yes, that would indeed be much slower canis minor fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 14:58
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If you used a local database or SQLite they would probably be approximately equivalent in terms of speed, but much, much more powerful. You could even query the database for the results as CSV and pipe that in to your program instead and the slowdown would be minimal. Whether or not the entire dataset fits in memory is a big difference, but orthogonal to the question of CSV vs. RDBMS.
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Sep 3, 2018 16:21
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xtal posted:If you used a local database or SQLite they would probably be approximately equivalent in terms of speed, but much, much more powerful. You could even query the database for the results as CSV and pipe that in to your program instead and the slowdown would be minimal. Whether or not the entire dataset fits in memory is a big difference, but orthogonal to the question of CSV vs. RDBMS. This is what I wanted to hear, thank you very much! It's a good thing that I'm leaving this place and won't be dealing with engineering this (as, tracking who/what/when edited the CSVs, or the state of how many CSV are there is an information that needs to be tracked in a DB  )
canis minor fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 16:55
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Horse Clocks posted:- it’s not always csv, but csv is very common because of the portability 
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