|
I think DnD would benefit from the EotE language rules wherein you can speak whatever you can justify unless it's important to the plot that you can't. Languages as a nebulous background balancing mechanism is sorta weird.
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2018 19:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 22:50 |
|
|
Zandar posted:The point was that people often consider halfling writing to be readable by people who speak Common, even though they have their own language. No one was suggesting that languages can't share a script, but that doesn't mean I can fluently read Italian. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Sep 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
Toplowtech posted:Yeah but see you can still "read" the words in Italian. You just don't understand them. That's exactly the point, people are asserting that because all those languages are written in the same script you CAN understand them despite not speaking the spoken languages of them. The assertion is that someone who speaks and reads Dwarf but doesn't speak Gnome, and someone who speaks and reads Gnome, but doesn't speak dwarf, would be able to write and understand letters to one another because Dwarf and Gnome use the same script. Which is just as nonsensical as asserting that someone who speaks and read French and someone who speaks and reads Welsh would understand one another's letters because THEY use the same script. In D&D reading is equivalent to understanding. (or arguably, reading IS equivalent to understanding, if you don't understand the language you're not reading the words you're just seeing the characters) Mendrian posted:I think DnD would benefit from the EotE language rules wherein you can speak whatever you can justify unless it's important to the plot that you can't.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2018 20:08
|
|
|
If anyone's interested. D&D Beyond is running another 25% off promo. HERO25 for one or more books, or LEGEND25 for the Legendary Bundle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2018 20:34
|
|
|
kazmeyer posted:If anyone's interested. D&D Beyond is running another 25% off promo. HERO25 for one or more books, or LEGEND25 for the Legendary Bundle. I already owned a bunch of the D&D Beyond books, So I felt I had enough of a discount with this code to feel ok with getting the Legendary Bundle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2018 21:29
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I already owned a bunch of the D&D Beyond books, So I felt I had enough of a discount with this code to feel ok with getting the Legendary Bundle. Cripes. $300 for the legendary bundle at 25% off, after paying $30-$50 per book for the physical, and then needing to spend more for a sub? I waited when they announced this site back in February or whenever because they didn’t have an app yet. Is there any time that they do better than 25% off? Because I’d spend $100 for core non-adventure books, but this is highway robbery.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 02:52
|
|
|
Languages are neat because sometimes you may have the only guy who is not the party face able to verbally interact with others. Or potentially allowing the party to communicate in secret between one another depending on the situation. These can generate really cool moments. Pretty much all that happens is that they just result in social stoppage making heroes communicate with dogshit hang gestures or just say "gently caress it" and then fight though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
koreban posted:Cripes. $300 for the legendary bundle at 25% off, after paying $30-$50 per book for the physical, and then needing to spend more for a sub? I waited when they announced this site back in February or whenever because they didn’t have an app yet. Yeah I kinda feel like it should be sub OR purchase. Basically requiring both is double dipping. Also they STILL haven't gotten the app to show character sheets which is the first thing you'd want the app to do, though the mobile site is decent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 04:49
|
|
|
koreban posted:Cripes. $300 for the legendary bundle at 25% off, after paying $30-$50 per book for the physical, and then needing to spend more for a sub? I waited when they announced this site back in February or whenever because they didn’t have an app yet. Well the Ledgendary Bundle was only $56 for me. Cause I bought pretty much every book as they came out on the system starting with tome of Annihilation. And each time they add a discount towards the legendary bundle. Combined with me having bought, Storm King, and the three core books, the discounts added up for it not to be very much to complete the collection. With the Lengendary Bundle at such a low price with a discount, I wanted it cause owning it discounts all future D&D beyond books. Also you don't need a sub. Unless you plan on making a lot of characters and not deleting them. I don't have a sub and have never felt the need to get one. It just does not do enough to be worth it. Like all the DM sub does is let you share the books with players in your campaigns. koreban posted:Is there any time that they do better than 25% off? Because I’d spend $100 for core non-adventure books, but this is highway robbery. Just get the books you are interested in and use that other 25% off code. If you don't want everything just get the stuff you do want. Every book bought slowly discounts the Legendary Bundle if you feel like getting it eventually. But there is really no need to if it does not have stuff you are interested in. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Sep 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 05:14
|
|
|
Second post was a mistake.
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Sep 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:With the Lengendary Bundle at such a low price with a discount, I wanted it cause owning it discounts all future D&D beyond books. This is why I jumped in with both feet back during the Critical Role promotion. Basically, the LB discount plus 25% brings books down into the $15 range, and since the release schedule is fairly slow, there's never really going to be a time when you're going to want to buy a book and not have a 25% off code available. Eberron + the two Waterdeep books + Ravnica preorder cost me $62. The downside is pulling that trigger in the first place. And it's only going to get worse, because every time they add a book to the LB, the price goes up. I'd be surprised if they don't eventually make it like core rulebooks only or something, because a year or two down the road that price is just gonna be nuts. koreban posted:Cripes. $300 for the legendary bundle at 25% off, after paying $30-$50 per book for the physical, and then needing to spend more for a sub? I waited when they announced this site back in February or whenever because they didn’t have an app yet. So far, the only discounts we've ever really seen have been 25% off. The upside is there's almost always a 25% off code active (if not multiple ones, I think right now there's like three or four) so even without the Legendary Bundle discount the prices are still reasonable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
Talk me out of Rolling a Kensei with a whip, hand crossbow, and crossbow expert. Alternately, talk me into it by telling me what else I need to do to maximize how well this works. (Aside from taking History as a skill and role playing a strong fear of snakes, Obvs.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 05:44
|
|
|
CaptainPsyko posted:Talk me out of Rolling a Kensei with a whip, hand crossbow, and crossbow expert. You need a free hand to reload the Hand Crossbow (CBE ignores the Loading property, this limitation comes from the Ammunition property). Kensei Shot competes with the Bonus Action attack from CBE. Hand Crossbow gets no benefit from being a Kensei weapon till level 11. Whip with Monk damage dice doesn't get better than Whip + Dueling Fighting Style till level 17.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 05:52
|
|
|
Talk me out of being a revolutionary dwarf cleric with a bandolier of dynamite and a light domain in CoStrahd E: or rather try to, because it's v unlikely to work sebmojo fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Sep 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 06:07
|
|
|
Made a sword college Bard criminal. Two weapon fighting with daggers, double proficiency on stealth, and defensive duelist because I'm variant human. Considering my spells ninja magic, and I'm having an amazing time. Only level three, but I already have my magical secrets picked out for level ten.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 06:48
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:Talk me out of being a revolutionary dwarf cleric with a bandolier of dynamite and a light domain in CoStrahd ...Except if it worked, then clearly you are not using ENOUGH dynamite.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 06:51
|
|
|
kazmeyer posted:This is why I jumped in with both feet back during the Critical Role promotion. Basically, the LB discount plus 25% brings books down into the $15 range, and since the release schedule is fairly slow, there's never really going to be a time when you're going to want to buy a book and not have a 25% off code available. Eberron + the two Waterdeep books + Ravnica preorder cost me $62. Well for each book you get the Legendary Bundle's price goes down. To the point were it was $56 for me due to that code posted earlier. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Sep 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 07:18
|
|
|
doctor 7 posted:Languages are neat because sometimes you may have the only guy who is not the party face able to verbally interact with others. Or potentially allowing the party to communicate in secret between one another depending on the situation. These can generate really cool moments. Splicer posted:Is it time to talk about Reign again?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 09:22
|
|
|
The idea that Ancient Dwarfish Runes (or whatever) are a kind of universal symbol/meaning set is fantastic. Like a functional Real Character and Philosophical Language.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 12:33
|
|
|
CaptainPsyko posted:Talk me out of Rolling a Kensei with a whip, hand crossbow, and crossbow expert. Inquisitive or even Thief Rogue with Archaeologist background, Variant Human, pick the Tavern Brawler feat to throw haymakers and improvise weapons to fight tall bald german boxers. Ask your DM if you can trade "Rapier" for "Whip" in proficiency. Every Rogue uses rapier today anyway, so he might appreciate the switch. (My Tomb of Annihilation character... Jerichooooooooooooo Stones.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 13:06
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:The idea that Ancient Dwarfish Runes (or whatever) are a kind of universal symbol/meaning set is fantastic. Like a functional Real Character and Philosophical Language.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 13:13
|
|
|
Literacy is not a given. Court languages exist. I took the lack of clear meaning with the proliferation of written dwarvish to mean that it was probably a dominant nobility language at one point and people learn the script and grammar and vocabulary when learning to read/write. We do that with dead languages now. There are people who can read/write in ancient Assyrian, but that doesn't mean a single person alive would recognize or understand dick all of any of it were it spoken right now.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 13:27
|
|
|
doctor 7 posted:Languages are neat because sometimes you may have the only guy who is not the party face able to verbally interact with others. Or potentially allowing the party to communicate in secret between one another depending on the situation. These can generate really cool moments. Ah yes I too enjoy being told, as the Expertise im all three social skills possessing 20 charisma bard, that only the fighter speaks the language, so I can't make any rolls and have to rely on his non proficient 8 charisma. This is a cool moment I love to have come up, where I cannot do my job to talk to things and we are almost assuredly going to fail a task that should be simple for us.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 14:51
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:Ah yes I too enjoy being told, as the Expertise im all three social skills possessing 20 charisma bard, that only the fighter speaks the language, so I can't make any rolls and have to rely on his non proficient 8 charisma. This is a cool moment I love to have come up, where I cannot do my job to talk to things and we are almost assuredly going to fail a task that should be simple for us. That's some big brains to equate a challenge that can be resolved diplomatically though not through the party's usual methods, as denying the Bard their God-given right to be The Face.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 15:00
|
|
|
If languages irk you that much as a bard, just waste a 3rd level spell on it. You know the one. Oh but if combat effectiveness is more important than being the face in every possible situation you can forego the spell.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 15:21
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:Ah yes I too enjoy being told, as the Expertise im all three social skills possessing 20 charisma bard, that only the fighter speaks the language, so I can't make any rolls and have to rely on his non proficient 8 charisma. This is a cool moment I love to have come up, where I cannot do my job to talk to things and we are almost assuredly going to fail a task that should be simple for us. Putting someone outside their comfort zone occasionally is good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 15:24
|
|
|
Azza Bamboo posted:If languages irk you that much as a bard, just waste a 3rd level spell on it. I mean, in this instance I do actually know that spell and use it. So I guess this turns into another 'magic is superior to mundane, get hosed Face rogue, only you have to care about languages.'
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 15:38
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:I mean, in this instance I do actually know that spell and use it. So I guess this turns into another 'magic is superior to mundane, get hosed Face rogue, only you have to care about languages.' Though to be fair unlike DnD, Star Wars is a hellscape of a billion species with half of them physically incapable of speaking anything but their native language... Despite so often trying to act like "Looks like nobody in the party stopped to learn X player's language!" is a desirable thing to put your players through. Section Z fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Sep 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 15:44
|
|
|
Look, languages, much like tool proficiencies, are essentially a ribbon ability that's cute when it comes up. Sometimes it's nice when you run into a bunch of Trolls or Giants and you can try to negotiate or understand tidbits you overhear, or run into a Dragon Turtle and avoid getting your rear end Steam Breath'd because you know Draconic. If your DM treats it as a "tee hee gotcha, you don't know Gnomish so you can't pick up the clue necessary to open the vault!" thing then they're a loving rear end in a top hat, nor should self-determined "Party Faces" get all pissy about there being encounters they can't personally sweet talk their way through, because that's something they should be used to the twats.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 15:58
|
|
|
There's a bunch of neat stuff you can do with languages, but they kind of depend on a resolution system more complex than pass/fail.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 16:23
|
|
|
If only there were someone running the game who knew the story and players and could determine if it was going to be overall interesting or appropriate experience for the characters to run into a language barrier. Maybe someone you know and play with and could talk to about your thoughts and concerns.KittyEmpress posted:Ah yes I too enjoy being told, as the Expertise im all three social skills possessing 20 charisma bard, that only the fighter speaks the language, so I can't make any rolls and have to rely on his non proficient 8 charisma. This is a cool moment I love to have come up, where I cannot do my job to talk to things and we are almost assuredly going to fail a task that should be simple for us. lol this is the saltiest thing I've read in at least a page. Rogue: I'd like to pick the lock on the door. DM: Interestingly enough this door seems to have no mechanical locking mechanism. Rogue flips over the table and rage quits the game
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 16:37
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:Ah yes I too enjoy being told, as the Expertise im all three social skills possessing 20 charisma bard, that only the fighter speaks the language, so I can't make any rolls and have to rely on his non proficient 8 charisma. This is a cool moment I love to have come up, where I cannot do my job to talk to things and we are almost assuredly going to fail a task that should be simple for us. Yeah don't worry there captain charisma this never actually happens. The melee classes can still go about twiddling their thumbs doing nothing until combat comes up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 16:43
|
|
|
I think most creatures that care to talk with you would probably speak common or have someone in their group that can speak common anyway so I feel like that shouldn't be that much of a problem. My only issue with languages is that the linguist feat tries to compete with actual feats with what, 3 languages and you can write codes for some reason because they realized the feat did nothing if they didn't give you some kind of bonus? I think linguist should let you speak basically every language. Maybe add in a clause that you can only get across simple phrases and concepts with languages that you aren't proficient in but whatever it's a feat. Let the face work out some kind of pidgin with the critters you're talking to whatever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
I think you mean "You can cast comprehend languages without consuming a spell slot. You regain this ability on a short or long rest."
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Glagha posted:I think most creatures that care to talk with you would probably speak common or have someone in their group that can speak common anyway so I feel like that shouldn't be that much of a problem. My only issue with languages is that the linguist feat tries to compete with actual feats with what, 3 languages and you can write codes for some reason because they realized the feat did nothing if they didn't give you some kind of bonus? I think linguist should let you speak basically every language. Maybe add in a clause that you can only get across simple phrases and concepts with languages that you aren't proficient in but whatever it's a feat. Let the face work out some kind of pidgin with the critters you're talking to whatever. Seems like that would be interesting. You can't manage complicated syntax but you can generally communicate simple concepts like "where food?" "we no fight" across a wide variety of languages. Maybe just a general bonus or an attempt roll to communicate with a language you don't speak. Or just have a "mime" feat. Character can accurately act out conversations with any creature of intelligence 8 or above. Advantage on any rolls to explain that they are trapped in an invisible box or walking against the wind.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
Glagha posted:My only issue with languages is that the linguist feat tries to compete with actual feats with what, 3 languages and you can write codes for some reason because they realized the feat did nothing if they didn't give you some kind of bonus? I think linguist should let you speak basically every language. Maybe add in a clause that you can only get across simple phrases and concepts with languages that you aren't proficient in but whatever it's a feat. Let the face work out some kind of pidgin with the critters you're talking to whatever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:Ah yes I too enjoy being told, as the Expertise im all three social skills possessing 20 charisma bard, that only the fighter speaks the language, so I can't make any rolls and have to rely on his non proficient 8 charisma. This is a cool moment I love to have come up, where I cannot do my job to talk to things and we are almost assuredly going to fail a task that should be simple for us.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 17:22
|
|
|
Bad Seafood posted:I, too, hate it when the DM throws the occasional curveball at the party, and a different character than usual gets the chance to shine or stretch their roleplaying legs. 'stretch their roleplaying legs' in this case usually means 'the party is hosed because D&D doesn't permit 'stretching one's roleplaying legs' to be compatible with 'trying to talk in a situation where talking could fail, when you have poor talking skills'. That might be fine, and the outcome might be hilarious, but if the party as a whole wants the outcome to be *successful*, it's a really bad ideal to let your 8 CHA untrained Fighter talk, especially if you have a 20 CHA trained Bard. Honestly, the idea of a party face is dumb, but it's also kind of necessary because of how stats stack up in D&D. You put the Fighter in to negotiate a deal or calm a riot, what you get is swindled/a worse riot. Personally my preferred solution is to more or less amalgamte the individual skills within the party into a general group skill list. If the party as a whole is negotiating, they can all talk, and then one of them can make a check. If the party is all climbing, they can all climb, and then one of them can make a check, &c. It means that you're not limited to 'one person has to make most of the conversation if you want the conversation to have a good chance of actually working.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 18:06
|
|
|
I honestly don't understand how everyone on this page is suddenly on the belief of 'gently caress party faces, they don't get to interact with what they are good at'. Yeah, I get similarly annoyed when the DM decides that the rogue who is the best lockpick in the land arbitrarily can't pick a magic lock or can't disarm a magic trap, unless they also somehow can cast dispel magic first. Character capabilities should be considered when making adventures, not to make them worthless or pointless (unless you have spells) but to make sure everyone shines. Forcing the antisocial dwarven barbarian to take point in a socialsituation, when they aren't at all built or keen to do so isn't 'good DMing', any more so than any other attempt to punish fighters for not having high mental ability scores, because they have to take too many physical ones to be good. In a game where stuff is actually roleplayed, and rolls dont come into account? Sure. Let the fighter have time to talk and be convincing to his fellows in his own language. But D&D demands rolls. I don't see his 'inevitably failing at something the party wants done' as great room to stretch legs. I've never been in a situation where I want my 1 athletics bard to try breaking down a door. If the GM arbitrarily made a reason why only she could, and not our 20 strength rage capable barbaroan and I inevitably rolled bad, it wouldn't make me feel included in the game, it would make me feel like the DM was trying to call me out and make me fail at something to have a laugh at my character's expense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 22:50 |
|
|
There's one time your superpower is gated out of this circumstance and you complain of bad DMing? I don't think anyone is advocating consistently making the bard unable to speak to anyone. Everyone here must play with DMs who delight in making their party suffer and fail at every turn and never make anything into an interesting roleplaying experience. If you see everything like this as a "welp a bad roll = everything's hosed" scenario or if it is that way then I'm sorry for your crummy table.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2018 18:45
|
|