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jivjov posted:"But but they could have just used Tatooine, all barren wasteland planets have to be Tatooine and any non Tatooine barren wasteland planets are secretly just Tatooine after a name change" -people in this thread For someone who harps on about how nobody understands the very simple point you keep repeating ad infinitum, your reading comprehension doesn't seem all that great.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:05
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Hodgepodge posted:Couldn't this be explained by the orientation of R2's map, as well as possibly the fact that it is three dimensional while the supplimental map is two dimensional? No, both maps are roughly from the same perspective. They clearly based the movie map on the official one but it looks like someone goofed up and swapped Hoth with Endor. However, this is still disastrous for canon.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:06
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jivjov posted:"But but they could have just used Tatooine, all barren wasteland planets have to be Tatooine and any non Tatooine barren wasteland planets are secretly just Tatooine after a name change" -people in this thread This is dishonest.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:09
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:I haven't watched any of the cartoons but while Clone Wars seemed to have some maturity about it, Rebels didn't so much. The new one especially looks pretty bad. As far as the novels go, well, after the big noise Disney made about how good the new EU was and how important it'd be, I don't think it helped that one of the opening lines in the first novel was: "The TIE wibbles and wobbles through the air, careening drunkenly across the Myrrann rooftops - it zigzags herkily-jerkily out of sight." gently caress me how can anyone read this poo poo
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Sep 4, 2018 22:10
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jivjov posted:"But but they could have just used Tatooine, all barren wasteland planets have to be Tatooine and any non Tatooine barren wasteland planets are secretly just Tatooine after a name change" -people in this thread Hoth is an ice planet which is very visually and thematically distinct from Tatooine
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Sep 4, 2018 22:10
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Cnut the Great posted:No, both maps are roughly from the same perspective. They clearly based the movie map on the official one but it looks like someone goofed up and swapped Hoth with Endor. We might have to declare Pablo Hidalgo an anti-pope.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:14
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Have we considered that planets can not only have more than one biome, but also multiple cultures and languages with their own names for their world?
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Sep 4, 2018 22:17
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jivjov posted:You know it's the Hosnian system from dialog, "Hosnian Prime" is in the script, as well as other materials (that are canonical to the film) So there is, in fact, no way or reason to conclude from the movie that there is such a place as “Hosnian Prime” or that it is distinct from Coruscant.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:21
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Ferrinus posted:So there is, in fact, no way or reason to conclude from the movie that there is such a place as “Hosnian Prime” or that it is distinct from Coruscant. Well given that the movie mentions the Hosnian system and not the Coruscant system....and that there are plenty of sources that clearly and explicitly state it's Hosnian Prime... No, only complete dullards think that it's Coruscant after they've been presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:23
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jivjov posted:Well given that the movie mentions the Hosnian system and not the Coruscant system....and that there are plenty of sources that clearly and explicitly state it's Hosnian Prime... Need I remind you that you have yet to present any of this overwhelming evidence?
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Sep 4, 2018 22:25
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Pretty much everyone I knew who saw force awakens thought it was Coruscant that got blown up. While that's certainly anecdotal I think it says more about the film's storytelling and doesn't give anyone an excuse to call them ableist slurs.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:28
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jivjov posted:Well given that the movie mentions the Hosnian system and not the Coruscant system....and that there are plenty of sources that clearly and explicitly state it's Hosnian Prime... There are no sources in the movie which reference “Hosnian Prime,” by your own admission. And, elsewhere in the movies we’ve seen planets which don’t share the names of their system, like Bespin in the Anoat system. So there’s no reason all the planets in the Hosnian System have to be named Hosnian. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 22:30
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jivjov posted:Well given that the movie mentions the Hosnian system and not the Coruscant system....and that there are plenty of sources that clearly and explicitly state it's Hosnian Prime... I wondered if it was supposed to be Coruscant and then checked and it was supposed to be a new system, but based on the film itself it would be hard to conclude that. Especially since multiple planets are destroyed and it's a weird FTL hyperspace beam and it could theoretically be hitting targets in multiple systems.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:40
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Ferrinus posted:There are no sources in the movie which reference “Hosnian Prime,” by your own admission. Except we literally have sources confirming that Hosnian Prime is in the Hosnian system.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:45
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Hodgepodge posted:Have we considered that planets can not only have more than one biome, but also multiple cultures and languages with their own names for their world? The only planet with multiple biomes is Naboo, except for that one where it's tidally locked to its sun so it's got a fire and ice thing going on, exactly (exactly!) like that one level in that one video game. I'm Pablo Hidalgo.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This means Jivjov's extremely official map has Hoth and Endor in the wrong places: Under the table jivjov's feet made convulsive movements. He had not stirred from his seat, but in his mind he was running, swiftly running, he was with the crowds outside, cheering himself deaf. He looked up again at the portrait of the Story Group. The colossus that bestrode the world! The rock against which the hordes of would-be movie critics dashed themselves in vain! He thought how ten minutes ago -- yes, only ten minutes -- there had still been equivocation in his heart as he wondered whether the news of Episode IX would be of continuity or discontinuity. Ah, it was more than a disingenuous forum troll that had been proven wrong! Much had changed in him since that first day with a Visual Dictionary, but the final, indispensable, healing change had never happened, until this moment. The voice from the telescreen was still pouring forth its tale of transmedia IP and honoring the fans and canon, but the shouting outside had died down a little. The waiters were turning back to their work. One of them approached with the gin bottle. jivjov, sitting in a blissful dream, paid no attention as his glass was filled up. He was not running or cheering any longer. He was back in Wookieepedia, with everything forgiven, his soul white as snow. He was on SomethingAwful, denying Starkiller Base was a Death Star, buying red text. He was walking down the white-tiled corridor, with the feeling of walking in sunlight, and an armed guard at his back. The longhoped-for bullet was entering his brain. He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved the Story Group.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:51
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jivjov posted:Except we literally have sources confirming that Hosnian Prime is in the Hosnian system. No, nothing in the movies mentions a “Hosnian Prime”. You just admitted this yourself, on the last page.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:54
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The only reason it isn't Coruscant is because Disney was trying, at the time, to minimize the prequel refs to make sure the fans don't lose their minds at the mere sight of a PREQUEL ref. I don't like those movies but they exist so whatever.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:58
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jivjov thinks that because a Star Wars licensed book that says there's a Hosnian Prime, that means that a Star Wars licensed movie in which Hosnian Prime does not appear still contains a Hosnian Prime.
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Sep 4, 2018 22:58
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jivjov posted:Well given that the movie mentions the Hosnian system and not the Coruscant system....and that there are plenty of sources that clearly and explicitly state it's Hosnian Prime... Do you think we live in the "Earth System" or that our planet is named "Solar Prime"? Complete dullards fucken indeed
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Sep 4, 2018 23:06
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I'm more intrigued by the idea that the scripts themselves are canon. That's like confusing a recipe for a meal. And leads to weird things like, I guess if scripts are canon, it was Morgan Freeman and not Brad Pitt who kills Kevin Spacey at the end, yet watching the movie... jivjov, what happens if a script contradicts a film? Are they both still canon?
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Sep 4, 2018 23:14
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We've been there and there are shots in the movie that are not canon. Like thingymebob's scar on his face. And... I can't recall... blue lasers maybe? It was nobody's finest moment.
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Sep 4, 2018 23:24
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Honestly this is pretty boring, can we stop picking on jivjov? I think the point's been made. Instead, let's take a look at the way past Star Wars media has depicted different planets nominally sharing a single biome. Star Wars swamp planets: Dagobah:  Naboo:  Rodia:  Dathomir:  Toydaria:  Nal Hutta:  Some of these are more fully fledged than others, the differences between a 22-episode-a-season television series and a three-year film production must be kept in mind, and some of these establishing shots don't do full justice to the complete environmental design work--but the overall creative ethos at work is still apparent in each image. Each world, despite being a swamp environment, is immediately visually distinct and instantly communicates its own distinct vibe, its own individual take on human ideas about what The Swamp is. Dagobah is dark and foreboding, Naboo is beautiful and enchanted, Rodia is tropical and muggy, Dathomir is witchy and sinister, Toydaria is green and rich, Nal Hutta is toxic and sickly. There's a strong artistic sensibility here which is unfortunately lacking now. The idea now isn't about tapping into new and unique kinds of feelings about old things but about tapping into old kinds of feelings about old things. Crait at least featured a little bit of visual flourish with the kick-ups of red dust against the white, but what kind of feelings did it evoke? There was no guiding archetypal principle for the imagination to grasp onto other than "snow," which is why a line had to be included explaining that it was in fact salt. Compare it to even one of the more esoteric planets of the prequels like Utapau, which successfully instills visceral, Vernesque notions of subterranean descent and prehistoric survivals, something briefly flirted with during the aquatic Planet Core sequence in Episode I but otherwise new for Star Wars.
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Sep 4, 2018 23:45
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The map canonicity issue is a very, very serious one. It has just been shown that either the map shown in the film or the map from the site is unreliable. Now, I wonder if anything can ever really be canon. We need to be careful.
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Sep 4, 2018 23:48
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Guy A. Person posted:Do you think we live in the "Earth System" or that our planet is named "Solar Prime"? Sol III, you dullard
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Sep 5, 2018 00:05
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Jivjov brings out the worst in everyone, especially jivjov
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Sep 5, 2018 00:11
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Calibanibal posted:Sol III, you dullard ffffffuuckk
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Sep 5, 2018 00:12
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Anyways, easy as it is to dunk on Jivjov, we still have posters like Cnut using the same logic to argue that, for example, the women in Star Wars are intended to be submissive-compassionate, and therefore sexism is objectively true.Cnut the Great posted:It may be garbage but this is the kind of stuff the Star Wars movies are about, SMG. Not Marxism. [...] Of course when you parse this obscurantism, Cnut’s is asserting that war is caused by insufficient peacefulness. And, like, Luke and Vader unite as a sexual couple and so defeat the masculine(?) emperor. It’s obvious nonsense, but again supported Jivjov-style by what he believes he is supposed to believe.
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Sep 5, 2018 00:13
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Calibanibal posted:Sol III, you dullard Wookiepedia claims that the planets in the Hosnian system are Courtsilius, Raysho, Hosnian, Cardota, and Hosnian Prime.
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Sep 5, 2018 00:17
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Further research reveals that a planet named Tattooine appears on the TFA map, so now there are canonically Jakku, Tatooine, and Tattooine (the clone of Tatooine).
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Sep 5, 2018 00:22
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Crait looked like it was bleeding. So that's neat, at least. Still dig the look of Scarif.
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Sep 5, 2018 00:24
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Scarif was Club Med Planet.
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Sep 5, 2018 00:33
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Calibanibal posted:Sol III, you dullard Please Sol Tertiary
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Sep 5, 2018 00:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Anyways, easy as it is to dunk on Jivjov, we still have posters like Cnut using the same logic to argue that, for example, the women in Star Wars are intended to be submissive-compassionate, and therefore sexism is objectively true. That's literally the opposite of what I said though. Star Wars explicitly supports subversions of traditional gender roles. The whole problem with the clones are that they're pure masculinity. You're also making a weird mistake where you're confusing peacefulness with submissiveness. Luke's act of passivity at the conclusion of ROTJ is the bravest, most rebellious, and most consequential action in the entire saga. Masculinity and femininity are just ancient metaphorical constructs. Even classical mythology features countless examples of hermaphroditic mixtures, gender-bending, and role mixing presented in a positive context, myth arguably being one of the few places where the sublimated natural impulses of a repressed patriarchal society could find free expression. Everyone is a mix of traditionally masculine and feminine traits to a greater or lesser extent, even though traditionally a broad dichotomy has been recognized. Regardless, without traditional concepts of masculinity and femininity, the subversion of those concepts couldn't exist. If everyone was like David Bowie or Grace Jones, David Bowie and Grace Jones would be boring. Not everyone wants to be like them. Other people do. That's what makes the world such an interesting and varied place. SuperMechagodzilla posted:Anyways, easy as it is to dunk on Jivjov, we still have posters like Cnut using the same logic to argue that, for example, the women in Star Wars are intended to be submissive-compassionate, and therefore sexism is objectively true. War is caused by a failure to recognize the dualistic unity of existence. It's caused by a failure to recognize that your enemy exists inside you, and that when you war against them, you war against yourself. It's caused by a belief that your enemy is the sole source of evil and that utopia can be achieved through their eradication. Trite, perhaps, but something many people (not naming names) still have a very hard time grasping. quote:And, like, Luke and Vader unite as a sexual couple and so defeat the masculine(?) emperor. It’s obvious nonsense, but again supported Jivjov-style by what he believes he is supposed to believe. The Emperor is clearly set up as the ultimate authoritarian father, replacing Vader as the big bad of the OT. He's positioned in opposition to the Rebel leader, who is a woman named Mon Mothma (literally every syllable of her name referring to motherhood) whose appearance very carefully includes elements of androgyny. Whether you like it or not, gender duality is a very big part of the symbolic make-up of Star Wars, just like the myths and legends and old Hollywood movies it is based on. I presume you find this politically reprehensible. I take no position and simply report what I find. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 00:56
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So Rey will be the sacred androgyne and become Imperioriatriz?
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Sep 5, 2018 01:00
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Harime Nui posted:When I say that TLJ is gnosticism/heresy I mean like-----it's been posited by HUNDU and Senpai that Rey is an Anti-Christ figure. There's certainly merit to that reading but I'd say by design she's more of a Sophia figure----embodying wisdom ("she already knows everything she needs to," or w/e it is Yoda says), and the intended "Bride of Christ" (that's Kylo). For ex., in the pit, confronting her greatest fear, Rey finds her mirrored image extending into infinity. Most have suggested this stands for her fear of loneliness----never finding a place to belong or w/e. That's part of it, but more specifically it's a fear of sterility-----no future, only More of These Star Wars ad infinitum. At the end with the boulders, Rey isn't announcing herself as Christ or AntiChrist so much as midwifing the new christ, Hope. This shallow feel-good theology can only lead to Albigensianism, the repudiation of the physical to the point of (occasionally Crusader-assisted) suicide.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:07
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This thread is shameful
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Sep 5, 2018 01:26
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By this time next week the number of tattooines will reach critical mass.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:31
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Cnut the Great posted:I take no position and simply report what I find. uhuh, well everything about these findings coming from no position come across with a 'new age western buddhism' ideological bent - a small example would be your emphasis upon the idea of an inner victory being how Luke saved the day at the end of Jedi, rather than say Vader's actions. Though more obviously it shows up with your repeated allusion to some kinda Yin and Yang dichotomy, with traditional masculinity and femininity and so on - which emphasizes just how you’re trying to depoliticizing things, like war for instance.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:39
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What I'm saying is it's all well and good to lol at jivjov but brother Cnut is in need of some stiff theological intervention
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Sep 5, 2018 01:43
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