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Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002


*Soviet National Anthem cuts out and Living Colour blasts from speakers in Red Square*

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big business man
Sep 30, 2012

yet to hear a single good reason why stalin had huge swaths of the old bolsheviks killed and lol if you spend energy defending it

thats my biggest beef with him. welp cya

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Stalin was against the collectivization before he was for it. Classic flip flopper, I award him 4 pinnochios

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003

Karl Barks posted:

Stalin was against the collectivization before he was for it. Classic flip flopper, I award him 4 pinnochios

yeah thats one reason why the various political coalitions against him failed. initially the left opposition called for the end to the NEP and starting the process of collective industry but stalin and others opposed it. later, when stalin and bukharin were for ending the NEP and the more right leaning bolsheviks like kamenev opposed it, the left opposition and trotsky were reluctant to unite with them because they had been arguing for the industrial strategy that stalin and bukharin laid out years earlier.

despite what a lot of people will claim, the issue the left opposition and others had with stalin wasnt that he wanted to build up the russian industrial base or create more egalitarian peasant relations, but that he and the party bureaucracy basically raised the russian CP above all others within the comintern such that the other parties basically served as proxies for russian national interests in their respective nations eventually, and also just the murdering of all the other bolsheviks

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
quote=edit

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Kurnugia posted:

Which is why I'm talking about it with you, communists, and not reactionaries.


Maybe so, but I can't help wondering how much of the failure of international socialism in the 20th century was a consequence of Stalin's policies towards other Communist parties. The effects of reactionary capitalist propaganga aside, how many people lost faith in socialism, watching him purging the parties of the Comintern of people critical of his leadership and all that?

For me the question of 'why Stalin' is the most important to be answered before we can try again. Because without an answer, without presenting strategies to prevent that from ever happening again, I'm not sure how we could ever succeed. For me, the question of the transition of power to the working classes remains unanswered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JauB3k4-tZQ

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

Kurnugia posted:

Which is why I'm talking about it with you, communists, and not reactionaries.


Maybe so, but I can't help wondering how much of the failure of international socialism in the 20th century was a consequence of Stalin's policies towards other Communist parties. The effects of reactionary capitalist propaganga aside, how many people lost faith in socialism, watching him purging the parties of the Comintern of people critical of his leadership and all that?

For me the question of 'why Stalin' is the most important to be answered before we can try again. Because without an answer, without presenting strategies to prevent that from ever happening again, I'm not sure how we could ever succeed. For me, the question of the transition of power to the working classes remains unanswered.

It doesn't matter what Stalin did in agrarian Russia in the early 20th century. The choices he made were a product of his material conditions. The next revolution will (hopefully) include a 21st century American proletariat, with its own set of challenges and material conditions to work with. Passing judgment on failed socialist experiments is useless, criticizing ongoing ones that you don't belong to and have no skin involved with is counter-rev. Also it's pointless to preconfigure the nature of our future revolution, as we don't know what we'll have to work with at the time as far as support (whether domestic or international), infrastructure, and materials. History is a useful lens to examine the nature of potential obstacles that might arise but you'd be a fool to lean hard into planning for all of them. Theory is a useful set of tools and language to communicate the nature of our world to people, but it's not praxis. All that literally matters right now is helping to facilitate the rise of class consciousness by any means necessary. That is the only metric by which "poo poo gets kicked off".

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

No, I’m pretty sure if we just keep relitigating the Soviet Union and the GLF we’ll eventually come to a perfect morally acceptable praxis that everyone will agree with.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008

by Athanatos
"Kill all sonsabitches!" Thems my praxis

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014



i actually stumbled on the original recording of this once and iirc the iso woman is (very badly) arguing in defense of lenin against chomsky, who blames him for stalinism lol

A Gnarlacious Bro
Apr 25, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Saw a trot today, colluding with the Japanese and German governments in broad daylight

Top City Homo
Oct 15, 2014


Ramrod XTreme

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

i actually stumbled on the original recording of this once and iirc the iso woman is (very badly) arguing in defense of lenin against chomsky, who blames him for stalinism lol

i am sure chomsky is great on certain things but isn't he ignorant on history of the USSR?

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010
chomsky is like homeopathic analysis

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Chomsky is a lot like Mao.

70% right and 30% wrong.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Chomsky whips rear end, #1 public intellectual USA

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Karl Barks posted:

Chomsky whips rear end, #1 public intellectual USA

Smartest kid on the short bus

Jewel Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Karl Barks posted:

Chomsky whips rear end, #1 public intellectual USA

He might as well be our only public intellectual

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

He really whips the llama’s rear end

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Jewel Repetition posted:

He might as well be our only public intellectual

I know, when he dies all we'll have left is Dan Bilzerian

Prav
Oct 29, 2011

i've never seen anything by chomsky that wasn't either inanely obvious or just plain wrong

(mlmp)

"homeopathic analysis" is a nice description

Jewel Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.
After Chomsky dies our top public intellectual will be Joe Rogan :gonk:

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Prav posted:

i've never seen anything by chomsky that wasn't either inanely obvious or just plain wrong

(mlmp)

"homeopathic analysis" is a nice description

What have you seen by Chomsky

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Chomsky is a lot like Mao.

70% right and 30% wrong.

I like this, might use it later...

Karl Barks fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Sep 4, 2018

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.

Chomsky is booooorrrring.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Postoyevsky posted:

yet to hear a single good reason why stalin had huge swaths of the old bolsheviks killed and lol if you spend energy defending it

thats my biggest beef with him. welp cya

but have you heard any bad reasons

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

why would anyone listen to chomsky when parenti is the superior introductory white grandpa leftist

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

Atrocious Joe posted:

why would anyone listen to chomsky when parenti is the superior introductory white grandpa leftist

:hai:

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

America’s public intellectual is Jordan Peterson lmao

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
Which is a double embarrassment since not only is he a retard, he is a Canadian

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
but you repeat yourself

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Jewel Repetition posted:

After Chomsky dies our top public intellectual will be Joe Rogan :gonk:

Manufacturing DMT

platzapS
Aug 4, 2007

BoneMonkey posted:

Chomsky is booooorrrring.

He pretends they don't let him on cable news because of politics but Sleepy Noam could work for the Heritage Foundation and tv producers wouldn't go within fifty miles of him.

platzapS fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Sep 5, 2018

Top City Homo
Oct 15, 2014


Ramrod XTreme
has anyone wrote

chumpsky yet?

anyway imo if you become a revolutionary in any way you have to accept that you will most likely die get exiled, betrayed, lose your family and make a very small contribution if any at all

and still do it because as chris hedges calls it you have to follow

the sublime madness

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/a-time-for-sublime-madness/

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/WSWS_Updates/status/1037143392495591429

lmao

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013


Ok is Louis a pedophile then? I thought he was just busted for jerking off in front of a couple comedians, but was there something else?

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
if WSWS is writing articles defending him, then hes probably at least a pedophile

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

Prav posted:

i've never seen anything by chomsky that wasn't either inanely obvious or just plain wrong

(mlmp)

"homeopathic analysis" is a nice description

Chomsky is probably the best linguist of the 20th century and honestly still the best still alive.

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
the comments on that article are terrible.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Top City Homo posted:

has anyone wrote

chumpsky yet?

anyway imo if you become a revolutionary in any way you have to accept that you will most likely die get exiled, betrayed, lose your family and make a very small contribution if any at all

and still do it because as chris hedges calls it you have to follow

the sublime madness

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/a-time-for-sublime-madness/

This

Prav
Oct 29, 2011

Plutonis posted:

Chomsky is probably the best linguist of the 20th century and honestly still the best still alive.

possible, i was just talking about his political work

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Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
https://twitter.com/HamsickAndBrush/status/1004027890827051008

anybody got more info on stalin's supposed threat to invade alabama in 1935

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