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U.T. Raptor posted:It wasn't unbalanced at all, especially given how much space the fruit took up compared to, say, edible fish and the fact that they spoiled almost immediately after being gathered. They were really good for refilling your food and water upon returning to base, and that's about it. I dunno, in a survival game, having an extremely easily accessible food source that totally negates the entire survival part feels pretty unbalanced, especially considering you can quite easily grow fish in a containment to power your base and run a filtration system. Reginalds are fantastic for this, as they also cook up great. Subnautica has some other issues, but having played it before and after the lantern fruit nerf, it felt like the right thing to do. Please note I am not one of those people who thinks a game being harder is always the right choice.
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Sep 5, 2018 16:06
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fruit being good didn’t make the game easier, it meant you had to waste less time making needy meters shut up when you were in your base doing other things and not in danger of starving anyway.
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Sep 5, 2018 16:16
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Today I learned people didn't choose the "No Hunger/Thirst Elements" when starting a Subnautica playthrough
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Sep 5, 2018 16:25
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Kruller posted:I dunno, in a survival game, having an extremely easily accessible food source that totally negates the entire survival part feels pretty unbalanced, especially considering you can quite easily grow fish in a containment to power your base and run a filtration system. Reginalds are fantastic for this, as they also cook up great. Subnautica has some other issues, but having played it before and after the lantern fruit nerf, it felt like the right thing to do. Please note I am not one of those people who thinks a game being harder is always the right choice. It does...eventually - for one, you have to find the things. Then you bring them back, gotta make the planter, plant them, then wait. They decompose so fast that it's really something to fill you up when you return to base. Subnautica starts as a survival game, but certainly doesn't stay that way once you find new technologies, methods of producing food and water, and better ways to defend yourself. It'd be really annoying if it did, as your goals change the more you play the game from simply not starving to death, to trying to find your way around deadly environments and progress the game. If every fifteen minutes was a struggle for survival due to basic needs, that'd be annoying as hell. Samuringa posted:Today I learned people didn't choose the "No Hunger/Thirst Elements" when starting a Subnautica playthrough I feel this would make a lot of the beginning game, as well as a number of technologies, pointless.
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Sep 5, 2018 16:58
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Morpheus posted:I feel this would make a lot of the beginning game, as well as a number of technologies, pointless. It does, and it feels great.
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Sep 5, 2018 17:01
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Inspector Gesicht posted:It does, and it feels great. Thread title continues to deliver.
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Sep 5, 2018 17:11
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I understand survival games because I too am someone who can eat a whole loving bear and still feel hungry 3 minutes later.
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Sep 5, 2018 17:17
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NetHack did survival right. If you try to eat a whole Fire Giant when you're already almost full you can choke on it and die.
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Sep 5, 2018 17:21
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The hunger mechanics are usually stringent in these games because half the game is achieving self sufficiency via farming. That's all well and good, but most of the time once you reach that, these games still insist on you micromanaging it. poo poo like inventory limits or the fact you have to carry 40 lbs worth of food to survive the day when exploring. And the UI in these games never accommodates the perpetual task. For example in Factorio, instead of food/water running out, you can run out of ore or coal, which means you'll run out of power or bullets for your defense perimeter and the bugs will eat your rear end. But once you procure a good ore patch and set up the logistics you're good for days of play time depending on your consumption. This concept could so easily be applied to survival games, where the game recognizes you took care of poo poo, and gives you a break for the amount of time depending on how much stuff you have.
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Sep 5, 2018 18:07
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Metal Gear Survive was odd like that. You were thankful for the merest hint of clean water early on, but later you're chugging it down by the gallon in between bear steaks, in order to clear inventory space.
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Sep 5, 2018 18:17
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Safeword posted:Metal Gear Survive was odd like that. You were thankful for the merest hint of clean water early on, but later you're chugging it down by the gallon in between bear steaks, in order to clear inventory space. I'm playing this right now and I am enjoying this because it's a shift in priorities: At the start you're scrambling for non-contaminated water and a full meal, but by mid-point you have farms, caged animals and water reservoirs except it is not just you who needs the resources now, you have to mind your base and it's residents too. But I am a broken brain person who likes this kind of this thing so don't take my word for it being a good game.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:05
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JebanyPedal posted:Lack of content isn't the issue, it's the lack of possibilities. Most roguelites just won't have something like consuming a rotting goblin corpse and dying making GBS threads yourself to death in the corner of a dungeon after having crawled around starving for an hour. That's why Binding of Isaac is so great, both for the sheer amount of content and the different ways they can all interact with each other. Something like Gungeon or Nuclear Throne might have tighter and more fast-paced actual shooting but by and large it's just a few different characters and weapons and the changes are mostly statistical and boring in the name of "balance" while Isaac will let you break the game wide open in fun ways if the stars align and there's a ton of strategy in the room-to-room gameplay of whether to take an item or not and how it will effect the rest of your run.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:24
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Guy Mann posted:That's why Binding of Isaac is so great, both for the sheer amount of content and the different ways they can all interact with each other. Something like Gungeon or Nuclear Throne might have tighter and more fast-paced actual shooting but by and large it's just a few different characters and weapons and the changes are mostly statistical and boring in the name of "balance" while Isaac will let you break the game wide open in fun ways if the stars align and there's a ton of strategy in the room-to-room gameplay of whether to take an item or not and how it will effect the rest of your run. Yeah, the insane variety is one of the main reasons I like Isaac. Of course it's also one of the things dragon it down because of a lot of the stuff making up the variety is boring and/or bad. When you get a good run, which isn't that hard/rare when you know what you're doing, you feel like a golden god. JebanyPedal posted:Most roguelites are just garbage anyway. They copy poo poo from roguelikes and basically almost never understand why roguelikes had those features in them or how they benefitted the games. Rogue Legacy is like the anti-roguelike. It takes the name while having almost nothing in common aside from being run based with procgen levels. The "genetic traits" or whatever feature is cute for 20 minutes but after that it's not cute and it doesn't go away.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:45
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The original point of permadeath (and the associated single save / can't reload thing), back in the original Rogue, was to make it so that curses and unidentified items, and as a result identification items, had any value at all. The makers noticed that if they had an unknown item in a dungeon crawler, they'd drop a save, use the item, see if it was bad, then load if it turned out to be bad. So, in their game, they took that ability out. That was the entire concept.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:10
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Olaf The Stout posted:Thread title continues to deliver. Wasn't it specifically about Subnautica in the first place?
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Sep 5, 2018 21:13
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Guy Mann posted:That's why Binding of Isaac is so great, both for the sheer amount of content and the different ways they can all interact with each other. Something like Gungeon or Nuclear Throne might have tighter and more fast-paced actual shooting but by and large it's just a few different characters and weapons and the changes are mostly statistical and boring in the name of "balance" while Isaac will let you break the game wide open in fun ways if the stars align and there's a ton of strategy in the room-to-room gameplay of whether to take an item or not and how it will effect the rest of your run. While I think Gungeon makes a lot of improvements to the formula, the way that the upgrades stack and interact in Binding of Isaac is so much more interesting than the guns and upgrades in Gungeon. Once you find a good gun in a run, opening more chests becomes really underwhelming. Isaac has a lot of useless items, but at least when you find some good items early, you get to look forward to becoming crazy powerful by the end. Enter the Gungeon has a lot of crappy guns, but even when you open a super chest in the second level, it's kind of boring because you won't be getting any stronger for the rest of the run. The other thing I like about Isaac that I think Gungeon gets wrong is the reward for not taking damage. If you avoid getting hurt in Isaac, you get to make deals with the devil to lower your max health but become more powerful, which is a nice high-risk high-reward tradeoff. If you avoid losing health in Gungeon, you get more max health, which is exactly what you don't need if you're not getting hurt. However, the updates to Isaac have really made it worse, while the updates to Gungeon have significantly improved it over how it was at release. I haven't played Isaac for years, while I recently played a lot of Gungeon and enjoyed it greatly.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:46
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The Moon Monster posted:Rogue Legacy is like the anti-roguelike. It takes the name while having almost nothing in common aside from being run based with procgen levels. The "genetic traits" or whatever feature is cute for 20 minutes but after that it's not cute and it doesn't go away. This is actually probably my biggest complaint with Rogue Legacy too. If you have a bad roll of classes post death, it's hard to want to keep playing. That being said I spent 49 hours and got like 99% of the achievements. Guess which one I'm missing. Guy Mann posted:That's why Binding of Isaac is so great, both for the sheer amount of content and the different ways they can all interact with each other. Something like Gungeon or Nuclear Throne might have tighter and more fast-paced actual shooting but by and large it's just a few different characters and weapons and the changes are mostly statistical and boring in the name of "balance" while Isaac will let you break the game wide open in fun ways if the stars align and there's a ton of strategy in the room-to-room gameplay of whether to take an item or not and how it will effect the rest of your run. I dunno about Gungeon but there's definitely a lot of character variance in Nuclear Throne. Maybe out of the starting set it's pretty similar but even they get really different once you unlock their higher level perks.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:50
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OGS-Remix posted:I dunno about Gungeon but there's definitely a lot of character variance in Nuclear Throne. Maybe out if the starting set it's pretty similar but even they get really different once you unlock their higher level perks.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:51
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PubicMice posted:Wasn't it specifically about Subnautica in the first place? Yeeeeeeeep ilmucche posted:Food and water in subnautica are annoying as heck. I like the idea of them being in the game, but it's hard to get a good consistent food source for how fast your meters drop. It's been almost two years, surely we can change the thread title.
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Sep 5, 2018 22:02
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The only thing worse than roguelikes with five minute hunger meters is roguelikes with five minute equipment durability.
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Sep 5, 2018 22:55
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Tunicate posted:The only thing worse than roguelikes with five minute hunger meters is roguelikes with five minute equipment durability. I am fine with item durability if that's the point of the game and there's lots of systems around maintaining your poo poo, or ways to exploit that it breaks. See Breath of the Wild for how to correctly have items run out. I am less enthusiastic if it just means that the item gets worse after a while or, worse, gets worse gradually until it's poo poo but not gone.
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Sep 5, 2018 23:29
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ilmucche posted:Yeeeeeeeep We can only change the title when we change ourselves
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Sep 5, 2018 23:48
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PYF thing dragging this game down: Rogue don't-likes
Vic has a new favorite as of 00:07 on Sep 6, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 23:53
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Dungeons of Dredmor is the best starter roguelike. The systems are approachable, and the writing is actually funny with some good references that don’t just sub in for actual humor, and the class system mix-and-match lets you do characters that are interesting in terms of the gameplay and the writing (you can be a magical lawyer that uses communism and being Canadian to stay alive with your four other classes)
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Sep 6, 2018 01:07
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Somfin posted:I am fine with item durability if that's the point of the game and there's lots of systems around maintaining your poo poo, or ways to exploit that it breaks. See Breath of the Wild for how to correctly have items run out. I'm playing Divinity Original Sin now and it's got item durability but also if you have a repair hammer you can always fix it in a few seconds? Like, infinite reusability for the hammer, so there's no point to durability at all. Why even bother?
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Sep 6, 2018 12:56
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In HDZ (That's short for Horizon Zero Dawn), you sometimes fight with allies but the enemies, WITHOUT FAIL, all converge on me and totally ignore the other 3 people closer to them that are shooting bombs.
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Sep 6, 2018 13:21
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Replaying Arkham Asylum. Good to know that almost a full decade later I still have a bad grasp of the combat mechanics. Just can't seem to get a good pacing for button presses. Also Riddler comments make him seem like he's rocking the Alzheimer's. Find a map, "Well anyone can do it with clues". Find a whole bunch of collectibles, "How're you doing this?! You must be cheating!"
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Sep 6, 2018 13:32
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Lead Psychiatry posted:Replaying Arkham Asylum. Good to know that almost a full decade later I still have a bad grasp of the combat mechanics. Just can't seem to get a good pacing for button presses. Riddler genuinely cannot conceive that anyone can figure out his riddles. He's so convinced of his own superiority that anything that challenges it causes him severe distress. As the Arkham games progress, he gets worse and worse because of how his riddles aren't actually challenging. It's pretty great characterization, really.
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Sep 6, 2018 13:39
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In Zelda BOTW those lion centaur things can go eat a thousand bags of dicks. I've been grinding my face against one of them for days and I think I'll have to leave, level up a bit my life meter and cook lots of things, and then come back. In a game that had so far shown a smooth difficulty curve, this is a super huge spike for which I was 100% not prepared.
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Sep 6, 2018 13:42
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Kruller posted:Riddler genuinely cannot conceive that anyone can figure out his riddles. He's so convinced of his own superiority that anything that challenges it causes him severe distress. As the Arkham games progress, he gets worse and worse because of how his riddles aren't actually challenging. It's pretty great characterization, really. "I like Eddie but I really want to be there when he finds out what a riddle is." Riddler's degradation across the series is wonderful, and I should do an effort post for the other thread about it.
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Sep 6, 2018 13:44
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batman says it best in Arkham City when, after he rescues some medic from one of riddler's convoluted trap rooms he is asked "Why is he doing this?" batman simply replies "Because he's insane."
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Sep 6, 2018 14:09
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Kruller posted:Riddler genuinely cannot conceive that anyone can figure out his riddles. He's so convinced of his own superiority that anything that challenges it causes him severe distress. As the Arkham games progress, he gets worse and worse because of how his riddles aren't actually challenging. It's pretty great characterization, really. The Riddler tapes in Arkham City make it obvious that the main reason he is active in that game is because Hugo Strange figured out Batman's true identity and the Riddler hasn't. That really grinds his gears. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFs-aYGvmU&t=190s Mierenneuker has a new favorite as of 14:20 on Sep 6, 2018 |
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Sep 6, 2018 14:12
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Mikl posted:In Zelda BOTW those lion centaur things can go eat a thousand bags of dicks. I've been grinding my face against one of them for days and I think I'll have to leave, level up a bit my life meter and cook lots of things, and then come back. In a game that had so far shown a smooth difficulty curve, this is a super huge spike for which I was 100% not prepared. So was realizing that with some quick climbing you can just book it out the window and never look back. 
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Sep 6, 2018 14:27
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Safeword posted:"I like Eddie but I really want to be there when he finds out what a riddle is." I just love how he's like "Riddle me this Batman....race across this track!" That's...that's not a riddle, Nigma. That's just a challenge. You can't say "Here's a riddle, my goons will beat you up!" that's not how this works at all.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:31
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Maybe the real riddle all along is when you start to question the meaninglessness of all human existence after collecting 300 of those stupid things.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:39
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440 actually.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:58
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Mikl posted:In Zelda BOTW those lion centaur things can go eat a thousand bags of dicks. I've been grinding my face against one of them for days and I think I'll have to leave, level up a bit my life meter and cook lots of things, and then come back. In a game that had so far shown a smooth difficulty curve, this is a super huge spike for which I was 100% not prepared. If you're unprepared/lazy/sick of their poo poo you can erase them from existence with ancient arrows
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Sep 6, 2018 15:07
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Morpheus posted:I just love how he's like "Riddle me this Batman....race across this track!" It's actually a classic superhero game tradition: 
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Sep 6, 2018 15:09
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Taeke posted:I'm playing Divinity Original Sin now and it's got item durability but also if you have a repair hammer you can always fix it in a few seconds? Like, infinite reusability for the hammer, so there's no point to durability at all. Why even bother? Same, same for identifying items which is generally poo poo pointless busywork in anything that isn't a roguelike and uh PoE sorta. There's even an incentive to have the loremaster skill anyway (although it's really annoying that it has to be exactly that character's turn to get the benefit from it), so why? It just adds a click and a few seconds whenever I pick up stuff, and it costs basically nothing to do at shops anyway. And I think my shovel broke? I had a shovel and I was digging stuff up happily, but now I can't seem to dig, so maybe it broke or I dropped it somehow? I do not know. Also the animation speed is too goddamn slow for a game that's entirely turn-based when it matters, but I haven't looked to see if I can up it so maybe that's on me, and it's annoying that the party doesn't automatically share crafting ingredients (and lockpicks/trap kits?) like they do interactables.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:15
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Morpheus posted:I just love how he's like "Riddle me this Batman....race across this track!" Catwoman: "That's still not a Riddle, Eddy!" Batman: "You...get used to it." Theres also the implication he's projecting daddy issues onto Batman. I am so going to make that post later, he's a wonderful character.
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Sep 6, 2018 15:41
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