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kingcobweb posted:But it seems like they fired him for speaking out against bigotry/calling fans out on their poo poo when someone really needed to do this The official reason I'm seeing is that it was a violation of their social media policy. I think it's bad timing for them to do so considering the PAX panel was coming in hot on the heels of the Kotaku article and subsequent revelations. It's giving the public impression of a company that's trying to put out its PR disaster fire by covering it in oily rags.
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Sep 7, 2018 23:46
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kingcobweb posted:The devs for Dead Cells seem cool. Please don’t tell me anything to the contrary. they definitely are but that game looks like Ambien to me
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Sep 7, 2018 23:53
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kingcobweb posted:But it seems like they fired him for speaking out against bigotry/calling fans out on their poo poo when someone really needed to do this It's a bad look to tell fans of your company and game to kill themselves His message might have been well intentioned but his delivery was consistently horrible and yeah, he still is responsible for Taliyah
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Sep 8, 2018 00:00
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someone give me 10 million dollars so i can make a game and there can be one good game developer.
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Sep 8, 2018 00:04
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Sexpansion posted:they definitely are but that game looks like Ambien to me I’m not into roguelikes but it’s a fun game. The controls feel really good. Also it’s gorgeous. Recommend
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Sep 8, 2018 00:05
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kingcobweb posted:But it seems like they fired him for speaking out against bigotry/calling fans out on their poo poo when someone really needed to do this firing a guy over tone policing because the community pissed their pants over being called man babies should be a wholly separate opinion from their uh, ability to design champions
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Sep 8, 2018 00:31
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Servaetes posted:It's a bad look to tell fans of your company and game to kill themselves If this is what happened (I missed that specific point) then yeah, some serious discipline is probably in order. However, the fact that Riot can't unambiguously say something along these lines (rewritten in legalese of course): quote:His message [was correct] but his delivery was consistently horrible and instead has to mealymouth some poo poo about their "efforts to evolve their culture"... is an extraordinarily bad look considering that they were already, figuratively speaking, on probation for how they treat these sorts of concerns.
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Sep 8, 2018 00:43
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JerryLee posted:However, the fact that Riot can't unambiguously say something along these lines (rewritten in legalese of course): Idk, they're basically saying "we encourage positive stuff towards the end of being more inclusive" and that dude was not positive at all about it. Again, good message or one worth discussing but he was too much of a dick to talk about it like a normal person
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Sep 8, 2018 01:30
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well, speaking of bad timing https://twitter.com/SecretGamerGrrl/status/1037905176793960450 https://twitter.com/SecretGamerGrrl/status/1037910113854652419 also firing an employee for having their parents harassed by neo-nazis. riot is poo poo and it is never going to get better.
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Sep 8, 2018 02:00
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How do I un spend thousands of hours of my life supporting a company I now wish nothing but failure rot and disdain? Seriously DZK was the last decent puclic facing riot employee. first Maurino and now this I remember a long time ago discovering that DZK and otgers faught very hard to diversify champ design and were oft shut down, and in a tweet made a it so subtle suggestion that taliyah may have originally been inteded to be trans. That was so loving sad to me that an arist/designer who came up with a concept for something had to have a head cannon about it after it was filtered through the corporate "appeals to 13 year old" machine. I think that's when I lost hope riot could ever improve.
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Sep 8, 2018 02:26
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I know you guys are like lol dead gay forums but I imagine if people on here are talking like this. Loads more are probably having similar conversations. Its too bad riot leadership is this loving bad at this poo poo. Somehow sexist, stupid, greedy, and garbage at literally the easiest poo poo. I'm guessing they just hired all their bro buds when they lucked into this whole thing because god drat are they bad at literally everything. Maybe when they finally put that s on the end, it'll be for a federal investigation or out of business.
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Sep 8, 2018 03:09
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Riot was literally founded on the backs of techbros that got some investment capital from friends. The game looked and played like a loving mess for a long time cause they hired the cheapest coders and artists they could. Then it somehow took off they got bought for a assload of money by a Chinese company and have been trying their best to be a serious gaming company even though they’ve done some really shady poo poo that got swept under the rug until recently. Unfortunately it’s not going to change and the only silver lining is that once people stop playing League they’re so bad at making other games the company will disappear.
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Sep 8, 2018 04:36
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I just saw an anime rear end ad for LoL on Hulu and now I exclusively play Demigod and Dragons and Titans on pirate servers.
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Sep 8, 2018 05:58
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I'm fairly sure the reason he was asked to leave/fired was because Riot asked people not to engage with trolls and rather than just ignoring them on social media or venting about it in private he told a bunch of people on twitter to kill themselves which looks pretty bad as a major rep of a company regardless of whatever they said to him first.
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Sep 8, 2018 06:12
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RealFoxy posted:I'm fairly sure the reason he was asked to leave/fired was because Riot asked people not to engage with trolls and rather than just ignoring them on social media or venting about it in private he told a bunch of people on twitter to kill themselves which looks pretty bad as a major rep of a company regardless of whatever they said to him first. Yeah. His heart was in the right place but he really seemed like on of the larger manbabies at Riot based on what I've seen from him talking about his champs and it's hard to have too much sympathy to someone that got fired for telling customers to kill themselves.
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Sep 8, 2018 06:15
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Yeah that did seem pretty stupid. The other guy though, Mattius didn't seem to deserve it.
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Sep 8, 2018 07:26
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Vermain posted:I agree with Elentor that the PAX panel could've been handled better, and that Klein's decision to get into mudslinging probably wasn't the wisest decision, but letting him go is a bad move if you're trying to show you're actively working towards an internal change of culture. Well let's add things up: 1) Company seems to be unbelievably sexist from what we know. 2) People report receiving e-mails telling them to shush when they tell others they've been harassed, from what we know. 3) Out of nowhere, a move that seems almost designed to look good on the surface for those who want affirmative action, and bad on the surface for people cynical about Riot after 1 and 2, as well as a huge chunk of the moba playerbase which is a notoriously bad playerbase even for gaming standards, pops up. Implemented in a timing almost custom-tailored to make reddit get in flames. But let's shrug it off as a coincidence, a bad timing borne out of good will, let's assume it's the best case scenario. 4) But then the people in Riot who are more outspoken about the issues react to the people reacting to Riot and get fired. Getting into mudslinging sure did please all the people already on the right side of the fence, but all it did was provide the company with the proper excuse to fire some of the few people responsible for giving a voice to those who need a hard change in corporate culture. Which then leads us to: 5) We still don't know in-depth what Riot is doing, internally, to fix its problems. We're now going to know less. You don't need to be half as cynical as I am to assume the worst. But that is just me, and I'm just a nobody from another Country. Elentor fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 13:27
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That's an amazing breakdown and pretty accurate I bet.
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Sep 8, 2018 14:42
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I feel pretty certain that riot sucks
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Sep 8, 2018 15:39
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Sexpansion posted:I feel pretty certain that riot sucks 
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Sep 8, 2018 15:42
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Yeah that did seem pretty stupid. The other guy though, Mattius didn't seem to deserve it. Wasn't he a PR dude? I'd imagine they'd hold him to a higher standard on this sort of thing so it kind of makes sense.
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Sep 8, 2018 19:11
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You're right I think but here's how it looks. Riot games is a sexism nightmare in their management. Kotaku leak. Management then pivots to be the forefront of diversity. They then fire one of their guys who's pushing for it. He's also black and a very vocal member of black lives matters political group according to his twitter. Like I dunno. It looks and reads like retards are running the show from the outside.
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Sep 8, 2018 19:18
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Daniel Klein was a former community manager in Germany before moving to LA to work on champion design and I heard nothing but horrible things from people about his attitude and how he treated anyone who disagreed from him even all the way back then so it's not like this was a sudden tipping point that sent him over the edge, he was always unhinged and trash talking people on twitter. Regardless of what he pushed for or believes in you probably shouldn't let any of your public, visible, and outspoken employees arguing and berating people in an unproductive manner. He wasn't just doing this to people who were @'ing him or Riot, all the way back when he was designing champions he would vanity search on Twitter and endlessly argue and berate people for playing his champions "wrong" so he was actively seeking out arguments and engaging them Riot probably should have taken away his social media privileges or fired him long before this happened because again, they only seem to want to take action when it makes their company look the worst in some kind of weird self-sabotage obsession. He was an issue for years about anything and everything unrelated to equality issues so anyone trying to claim they're using this as an excuse to silence him for speaking out is probably unaware of how awful he's been.
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Sep 8, 2018 20:26
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RealFoxy posted:He was an issue for years about anything and everything unrelated to equality issues so anyone trying to claim they're using this as an excuse to silence him for speaking out is probably unaware of how awful he's been. No, I think they're using this as an excuse to dog-whistle to their rabid fanbase that they're not giving in to the SJWs and/or because some higher-ups were personally offended by the idea that they were sexist, and were looking for easy targets. Him engaging in abusive behaviour over people disagreeing on champion design should be a much bigger offense than doing it over actual issues of social importance. I agree with you that he should've been fired or severely admonished before this, but Riot's behaviour absolutely looks dishonest here.
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Sep 8, 2018 20:34
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i mean its great that you dont like him but absolutely none of that stuff is why he was fired. i agree that this was absolutely a dog whistle to the fanbase of chuds
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Sep 8, 2018 22:44
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Then there's the other guy. The black guy that got fired from a company that stated they were going to be leaders in diversity.
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Sep 8, 2018 23:18
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Keep digging that hole Riot. I'm finding it hard to want to log in to the game since the Kotaku article came out and this sure doesn't restore enthusiasm. Like, you can play the free to play game and not give them money? But that just feels dishonest. Especially with a game like League where you put in hundreds of hours to improve, you're basically playing a mini-sport. If the guys who invented like, frisbee-golf were a bunch of sexist, (and potentially nazi) pigs, and the only way to play was to associate yourself with the frisbee-golf brand because they had a monopoly on all the equipment, I dunno if I'd want to play that anymore either. Yeah, the dude should have been fired a while ago for crappy behavior but he wasn't, he was only thrown to the wolves for pissing off the chuds. And it's obvious. It's starting to feel like the whole industry is just a pit of toxic, sexist behavior, and they'd all rather circle the wagons and kick out anyone who doesn't agree with them than stop making their rape jokes.
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Sep 8, 2018 23:42
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rabidsquid posted:i mean its great that you dont like him but absolutely none of that stuff is why he was fired. i agree that this was absolutely a dog whistle to the fanbase of chuds I also think this is the reason for his firing
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Sep 9, 2018 00:41
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Sexpansion posted:I also think this is the reason for his firing I dunno, this seems kind of conspiracy theory ish. You don't get fired for saying stupid poo poo, you get fired when somebody that can fire you notices it. The dude got like 4 threads on the front page of reddit about him, everyone in Riot that could fire him would have seen it.
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Sep 9, 2018 00:54
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you dont think he got fired to appease the chuds, you just think he got fired because the chuds made a bunch of reddit threads crying about him. okie dokie.
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Sep 9, 2018 01:16
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i dont find it hard to believe that he got fired after a bunch of people made angry reddit threads about him because thats how riot has balanced the game for years, why would they treat this any differently
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Sep 9, 2018 01:24
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It’s also possible he did in fact get fired for engaging at all and being kind of a dick to people in general. He has been like this for a while, he’s the one who designed Taliyah and Kayn and got extremely mad when people would play them “wrong” to the point of tweeting insults at people, and the Riot Balance team when they gave Taliyah her vector targeted shove. He also was incredibly aggressive about anyone trying to work out the exact numbers involved in Kayns transformation because he thought they were being boring and hated fun. He’s been a terrible social media presence since forever, it’s entirely possible this was the straw that broke the camels back given he outright called for a subsection of the player base to kill themselves. Which regardless of his reasons is still incredibly unprofessional and any reasonable company would fire him for it. Riot just happen to also be going through the shitstorm of several repeated fuckups. In other Riot failures they apparently sent out a mass email and accidentally failed to hide all the recipients addresses. So now every person who received that email has the email address of every other person who received it. This is understandably a huge invasion of privacy that in the EU Riot could actually be sued over. Only happened in NA though so that’s a wash.
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Sep 9, 2018 01:50
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the straw that broke the camels back just coincidentally being firing him while the redditors were crying sexism versus men is an awfully big coincidence. edit: specifically the fact that this is when it happens undercuts any actual reason they may have had otherwise so if its not a coincidence its unfathomably stupid, but its also coming at a time that a coincidence is incredibly unlikely. regardless it undermines any potential legitimacy it would otherwise have.
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Sep 9, 2018 02:03
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If he hadn't been given verbal warnings before this then it's completely on Riot for not reigning him in much earlier. At the same time in this situation most companies going through a shitstorm would usually having a memo go around to everyone telling them not to comment on this to create even more shitstorms. Considering how poorly managed Riot is wouldn't be surprised if they'd never even thought to do this. Then again, knowing Klein there's as good of a chance he actually got notice and ignored it anyway. It isn't like normal folk are ever going to figure out the whole story so best we can do is wait for Richard Lewis and Thorrin pieces that give two radically different perspectives and wait for the shitstorm to catch fire again.
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Sep 9, 2018 02:38
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If there's a speed limit on a road and the local police let people speed there for years and then the one time someone gets pulled over for speeding it's a black guy with BLM bumper stickers all over his car, then "he was factually exceeding the speed limit" is not a defense against the observation that it's an extremely bad look I realize that a computer game company is not 100% apples-to-apples with law enforcement but hopefully people take the point of this analogy
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Sep 9, 2018 02:53
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quote:According to Kotaku, Riot had asked its employees not to engage with the PAX panel controversy, but many in the community still chose to share their opinion. Klein told The Verge that he was “fired for violating our social media policy.” Hey I found a source since nobody else was. He was actually fired after being told not to engage with people but did so either way. It's not Riot's fault he was fired, he did it to himself
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Sep 9, 2018 03:00
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That black dude isnt Daniel and his only negative was liking Daniel's tweets. Daniel shouldve gotten fired. Not too sure about firing mattius as well.
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Sep 9, 2018 03:02
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JerryLee posted:If there's a speed limit on a road and the local police let people speed there for years and then the one time someone gets pulled over for speeding it's a black guy with BLM bumper stickers all over his car, then "he was factually exceeding the speed limit" is not a defense against the observation that it's an extremely bad look The analogy here is more that the cops give a white dude dozens of warnings not to speed and then they give a final warning that people are watching the department and they really can't let him get away with it anymore and he immediately takes off at 120mph.
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Sep 9, 2018 03:45
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i sincerely doubt he was on his one final warning, again, there's no evidence this dude was actually on the chopping block before this.
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Sep 9, 2018 05:30
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NovemberMike posted:I dunno, this seems kind of conspiracy theory ish. You don't get fired for saying stupid poo poo, you get fired when somebody that can fire you notices it. The dude got like 4 threads on the front page of reddit about him, everyone in Riot that could fire him would have seen it. And here is riots motto for recruiting. "No doesn't always mean no!"
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Sep 9, 2018 05:39
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