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Senju Kannon posted:what is the word for those kinds of people Close-minded and generally deeply sheltered and not in a good way. Pellisworth posted:lol he is very concerned about his family members not being 100% strictly pro-life and anti-LGBT rights and some of them voted for pro-choice politicians He's 100% using 'pro-life' as a shibboleth for a whole set of strict tenants he's worked up in his head to represent Real Catholicism, which I suspect in the light of day look more like American Right-wing Politics as an ideology.
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Sep 9, 2018 06:02
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Cythereal posted:To be honest, I think a non-trivial number of people do gravitate towards religion because they simply want to be told what the right answer is. Spiritual counsel is one of religion's first and foremost functions, and being simply told what to do is often easier than the alternative.
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Sep 9, 2018 13:41
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I need prayers. And maybe more. Situation: Beginning of August (8/9 to be precise), I tore my rotator cuff (left shoulder) - in a really stupid way, too (I was trying to open a sliding door to let my dog out -! I didn't realize it til a week later (thought I'd pulled a muscle), then a few days to get into orthopedic doc, then get an MRI to confirm, etc. By 8/23 or so I started PT - and on that very day (of first PT session) I confirm - yup, can't feel left thumb or forefinger. Running guess from physical therapy is pinched nerve, we were working on it. I say were because...Well, it's Sunday 9/9 as I write this, and after coming home from PT Friday I noticed I was coughing a lot, with fatigue, etc...and everything is telling me it's bronchitis. (I've had bronchitis before, and this feels the same.) (I'll be going to primary care doc this week to confirm it if it keeps up.) Reason I post about it in this thread? (Besides that this is a vaguely safe place to grump about my poo poo luck) Because this is probably the worst possible time for me to get bronchitis. (Since it means no PT for me until it's cleared up.) Uggggh. I was hoping to get through PT and all my other medical stuff before moving down to FL in January (so pretty much need to finish regular appointments by end of November) and that feels suddenly very unlikely. ...I just want to have the next few months healthy, is that too much to ask?
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Sep 9, 2018 14:03
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Liquid Communism posted:He's 100% using 'pro-life' as a shibboleth for a whole set of strict tenants he's worked up in his head to represent Real Catholicism, which I suspect in the light of day look more like American Right-wing Politics as an ideology. Welcome to religion in America! All creeds may apply as long as they subscribe to the same specific ideas and you don't look foreign! 
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Sep 9, 2018 14:32
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Also this isn't a request for me but my brother and some of my close friends are starting qualifiers for grad school this week and we've got enough academics here to appreciate they could use prayers
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Sep 9, 2018 14:35
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Liquid Communism posted:He's 100% using 'pro-life' as a shibboleth for a whole set of strict tenants he's worked up in his head to represent Real Catholicism, which I suspect in the light of day look more like American Right-wing Politics as an ideology. fun fact the reason Evangelicals in the US are super anti abortion is because an Evangelical culture warrior and a Catholic culture warrior teamed up in the 80s and they combined a bunch of stuff that one or the other of them hated. there's a big element of "i must remain pure and i hate this evil thing so all of life must be drawn into a Venn diagram regarding this topic where the circles don't overlap". everything must be one or the other, good or evil, day or night, dead or alive, etc
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Sep 9, 2018 14:46
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Lutha Mahtin posted:fun fact the reason Evangelicals in the US are super anti abortion is because an Evangelical culture warrior and a Catholic culture warrior teamed up in the 80s and they combined a bunch of stuff that one or the other of them hated. there's a big element of "i must remain pure and i hate this evil thing so all of life must be drawn into a Venn diagram regarding this topic where the circles don't overlap". everything must be one or the other, good or evil, day or night, dead or alive, etc Which never stops being hilarious to me, because the general Evangelical opinion for a hundred years prior was that Catholics were Dangerously Not Christian, including a great deal of scare-mongering over JFK's election.
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Sep 9, 2018 16:43
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The evangelicals I know still don't accept Catholics as fellow Christians, just as allies of necessity in the culture wars. e: which makes it really funny when they use The Exorcist movie as a template for trying to exorcise someone
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Sep 9, 2018 16:46
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:The evangelicals I know still don't accept Catholics as fellow Christians, just as allies of necessity in the culture wars. edit: this goes double for the pentacostals et al who do "spiritual warfare," imagining there's demons everywhere and that they're fighting them
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Sep 9, 2018 16:49
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HEY GUNS posted:if you really believe in that poo poo, which i do, trying to exorcise someone when you don't know what you're doing is dangerous af Arrogance knows no bounds. I guess as far as casting out evil goes it worked, because we all stopped being friends after that.
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Sep 9, 2018 16:53
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Spacewolf posted:I need prayers. And maybe more. StashAugustine posted:Also this isn't a request for me but my brother and some of my close friends are starting qualifiers for grad school this week and we've got enough academics here to appreciate they could use prayers Prayers sent (in addition to just generally keeping the whole thread in my prayers)! Lutha Mahtin posted:fun fact the reason Evangelicals in the US are super anti abortion is because an Evangelical culture warrior and a Catholic culture warrior teamed up in the 80s and they combined a bunch of stuff that one or the other of them hated. there's a big element of "i must remain pure and i hate this evil thing so all of life must be drawn into a Venn diagram regarding this topic where the circles don't overlap". everything must be one or the other, good or evil, day or night, dead or alive, etc Too bad we just convinced the Evangelicals to oppose abortion and then got our entire political focus corrupted by them, instead of converting them 
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Sep 9, 2018 18:17
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StashAugustine posted:Also this isn't a request for me but my brother and some of my close friends are starting qualifiers for grad school this week and we've got enough academics here to appreciate they could use prayers yeah pray for my job search
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Sep 9, 2018 20:42
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zonohedron posted:Too bad we just convinced the Evangelicals to oppose abortion and then got our entire political focus corrupted by them, instead of converting them Getting involved with them at all beyond, say, coordinating charitable works was a mistake, because their ideology has rubbed off in a huge way.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:18
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Liquid Communism posted:Getting involved with them at all beyond, say, coordinating charitable works was a mistake, because their ideology has rubbed off in a huge way.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:23
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Mean-spirited? Possibly. https://twitter.com/ameyuurei/status/1038309681389809665 https://twitter.com/ameyuurei/status/1038871718431993858 https://i.imgur.com/JnsUIGv.mp4
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Sep 10, 2018 00:42
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Spacewolf posted:...I just want to have the next few months healthy, is that too much to ask? Hope things work out for you bud. No matter how bad things may be, you still have a dog.
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Sep 10, 2018 00:55
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Worthleast posted:Hope things work out for you bud. No matter how bad things may be, you still have a dog. True. Technically my parents' dog, but whatever. Cythereal, is that a tiger?
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Sep 10, 2018 01:12
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Spacewolf posted:Cythereal, is that a tiger? Yes. This, however, is a hamster. 
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Sep 10, 2018 01:15
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It looks more like a furry alien spaceship.
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Sep 10, 2018 01:18
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Spacewolf posted:It looks more like a furry alien spaceship. I'd have gone with powdered donut. This is a leopard kitten. 
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Sep 10, 2018 03:10
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So at Mass today the priest changed a word during the Eucharistic prayers. It went from "and gave the chalice to his disciples," to, "and gave the chalice to his friends." Now, I'm pretty sure that changing the words of consecration invalidates the sacrament, but I'm also pretty sure that the words that must be said and can't be changed don't start until "Take this, all of you, and drink from it..." Am I correct that the priest didn't do anything to invalidate the sacrament? I ask because if he did I would feel the need to contact the pastor. I'm not too concerned with minor "liturgical abuses" but messing with the validation of the Eucharist is a big thing.
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Sep 10, 2018 03:20
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Thirteen Orphans posted:So at Mass today the priest changed a word during the Eucharistic prayers. It went from "and gave the chalice to his disciples," to, "and gave the chalice to his friends." Now, I'm pretty sure that changing the words of consecration invalidates the sacrament, but I'm also pretty sure that the words that must be said and can't be changed don't start until "Take this, all of you, and drink from it..." Am I correct that the priest didn't do anything to invalidate the sacrament? I ask because if he did I would feel the need to contact the pastor. I'm not too concerned with minor "liturgical abuses" but messing with the validation of the Eucharist is a big thing. it's apparently a valid variant: http://catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/EPC1-3.htm but this is coming from someone who believes everything from Trent onwards is anathema ☦☦☦💮📿📿📿 did u know there's a prayer beads emoji but no catholic rosary emoji? we win, imo
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Sep 10, 2018 03:25
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Relax, it's not a magic spell and God doesn't fuss a slightly different word choice. https://giant.gfycat.com/EmbellishedDimwittedCoelacanth.webm
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Sep 10, 2018 03:28
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that looks like a juzu thoCythereal posted:Relax, it's not a magic spell and God doesn't fuss a slightly different word choice. please don't mirror my criticism of the church's approach to eucharistic prayer
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Sep 10, 2018 03:30
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However, it's from the old translations...making it quite probably illicit to use, maybe even invalid. I would contact the pastor IMHO. Screwing with any part of the Eucharistic Prayers is not a small thing. Cythereal: That was perhaps the most offensive way you could have described this.
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Sep 10, 2018 03:31
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https://emojipedia.org/prayer-beads/ yeah these mostly look like juzu MAYBE lg could be something else, but emojipedia and apple and facebook? deffo juzu. heck, emojipedia even has the dharma and sangha beads
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Sep 10, 2018 03:42
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Spacewolf posted:Cythereal: That was perhaps the most offensive way you could have described this. I don't understand why you find that offensive but I'm sorry that I did accidentally offend you. 
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Sep 10, 2018 03:48
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Cythereal posted:I don't understand why you find that offensive but I'm sorry that I did accidentally offend you. Because, as far as Catholicism is concerned, God does sometimes "fuss a slightly different word choice". Invalidity of form can make a sacrament invalid (although the difference Thirteen Orphans' priest said wouldn't). Some changes to the wording can make it illicit, and others invalid.
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Sep 10, 2018 04:37
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Epicurius posted:Because, as far as Catholicism is concerned, God does sometimes "fuss a slightly different word choice". Invalidity of form can make a sacrament invalid (although the difference Thirteen Orphans' priest said wouldn't). Some changes to the wording can make it illicit, and others invalid. I really do not understand that and it's completely foreign to my understanding of what Christianity is, but I'll take your word for it. Sorry, Spacewolf. 
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Sep 10, 2018 04:43
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Would someone with Tourette's not be able to get ordained as a catholic priest then?
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Sep 10, 2018 04:45
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Cythereal posted:Relax, it's not a magic spell and God doesn't fuss a slightly different word choice. Spacewolf posted:Cythereal: That was perhaps the most offensive way you could have described this. My dude, I would encourage you to couch your language a bit more diplomatically and to reflect that it's your own personal belief rather than making a broad declarative statement. I feel like an rear end in a top hat playing  tone police but I'm gonna anyway.In a broad sense I agree with you. But, comparing liturgy to a magical incantation is rather flippant and unnecessarily reductive. edit: HEY GAL if you're still job searching I would encourage you to look at tribal colleges, I can give you some leads and contacts. TCUs are a good place to start a teaching career and iirc you have some background understanding of Southwestern US tribal issues. The pay is terrible but it's a good start, and your background in the Dine/Navajo area combined with your academic pedigree gives you a good chance of landing a job with them. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 04:47
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Pellisworth posted:My dude, I would encourage you to couch your language a bit more diplomatically and to reflect that it's your own personal belief rather than making a broad declarative statement. I feel like an rear end in a top hat playing You're reading far more into that than what I intended. I thought I was being friendly and relaxed telling someone not to worry about something that, to my understanding of Christianity, wasn't something even resembling an issue. I have since been corrected.
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Sep 10, 2018 05:06
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Liquid Communism posted:Getting involved with them at all beyond, say, coordinating charitable works was a mistake, because their ideology has rubbed off in a huge way. oh hey i guess now i'm posting from this direction but there are actually a lot of very fine and noble things within the american evangelical movement. same with catholicism in america i think this idea that some evangelicals and catholics have that "oh their bad parts corrupted us" is a too-easy cop-out. it's really toxic because it allows the speaker to push blame for the awful Culture Warrior crap that has been going on for 3-4 decades onto a convenient Other while still engaging in it themselves. imo if one is going to make some tribal argument, the first thing one needs to be very sure about is that one can absolutely for certain say that my tribe is fine and the reason they are fine is because i have been vigilant. and this is really quite clearly not the case on either side of this tribal squabble and the unfortunate truth is that ya'll hosed up. bad. gay kids and pregnant women killed themselves because they knew their culture-warrior evangelical or catholic families would have never accepted them. that is one of the more extreme examples, yes. but it's true. and many of the less-extreme examples aren't so good either
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Sep 10, 2018 05:21
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There are definitely a plethora of examples available of how many lives the culture war and inability of the Church to police its own have cost, and for how many more they have driven away from the Church.
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Sep 10, 2018 05:42
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i guess i was just reacting to a bad habit i see among american christians of absolving themselves while casting blame on other factions. i don't know how true or prevalent it is but it just sticks out to me as a bad thing.
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Sep 10, 2018 05:44
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Lutha Mahtin posted:oh hey i guess now i'm posting from this direction but there are actually a lot of very fine and noble things within the american evangelical movement. same with catholicism in america I wrote a more angry and lengthy reply but it wasn't productive, suffice to say I largely agree with you. Also as of today I'm officially a member of the Episcopalian/Anglican faith community, consummated by my eating baked goods in the stuffy church basement while they held a rummage sale. I feel like peak American Anglicanism is eating banana bread while chatting with grannies. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Sep 10, 2018 05:47
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Pellisworth posted:Also as of today I'm officially a member of the Episcopalian/Anglican faith community, consummated by my eating baked goods in the stuffy church basement while they held a rummage sale. Congrats!
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Sep 10, 2018 11:24
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Pellisworth posted:My dude, I would encourage you to couch your language a bit more diplomatically and to reflect that it's your own personal belief rather than making a broad declarative statement. I feel like an rear end in a top hat playing It was really undiplomatic on my part, yes. I apologize now for that to Cythereal. But literally, this is where the term "hocus pocus" (as in fake magical bullshit) comes from (at least the generally accepted theory, according to Wikipedia, now thta I check): Anglicans mocking the Latin of the words of consecration: "hoc est enim corpus" (this is my body). Comparing the Eucharistic Prayer, any part of it, to magic therefore has....not a great history. Anyway! Pellisworth: Who has the better coffee, though? That's the key point!
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Sep 10, 2018 12:35
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i was always taught it was latin illiterate people mishearing it as "hocus pocus"
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Sep 10, 2018 12:36
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Senju Kannon posted:i was always taught it was latin illiterate people mishearing it as "hocus pocus" Looking at the wikipedia on "hocus pocus", there's arguments on whether it was intentional or not. In English it's a maybe; in a lot of European languages it's...not so much unintentional, is how I read it. Anyway, comparing liturgy to magic...Yeah, um, let's please not go there? (We could have terrifying fights about things like the Holy Fire ritual in Orthodoxy, but I don't think that'd be productive, does anyone else?)
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Sep 10, 2018 12:41
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