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Think of a notch as cutting into the top of a phone instead of jutting down. Until we get cameras that work through the screen (ie 2019 probs) it's an improvement.
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Sep 2, 2018 01:02
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Think of a notch as cutting into the top of a phone instead of jutting down. Until we get cameras that work through the screen (ie 2019 probs) it's an improvement. That isn't the point of confusion. The assertion was that the flat tire is an absence of screen whereas the tabs on either side of the notch are "extra" screen which is an astoundingly stupid assertion. You can view both as a cutout of screen that "should" be there or everything that's not a rectangle as "extra" but you can't pick one for one and one for the other.
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Sep 2, 2018 01:17
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LastInLine posted:That isn't the point of confusion. The assertion was that the flat tire is an absence of screen whereas the tabs on either side of the notch are "extra" screen which is an astoundingly stupid assertion. You can view both as a cutout of screen that "should" be there or everything that's not a rectangle as "extra" but you can't pick one for one and one for the other. I think the distinction is the flat tire was lazy/value engineering, it could be and was later done without the flat tire, the notch give some extra space for the status bar where the needs of the projector and two cameras are very real tech limitations.
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Sep 2, 2018 01:54
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LastInLine posted:That isn't the point of confusion. The assertion was that the flat tire is an absence of screen whereas the tabs on either side of the notch are "extra" screen which is an astoundingly stupid assertion. You can view both as a cutout of screen that "should" be there or everything that's not a rectangle as "extra" but you can't pick one for one and one for the other. Given that there are no current cameras that can work through a useful screen, unless you're arguing against having a front camera in the first place it's definitely extra screen. Now I personally am not a selfie person so I'd be 100% fine with a camera-less front panel but clearly that's not the mainstream market position. If you care about bezel size (again something I'm not convinced matters) it make sense.
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Sep 2, 2018 02:39
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Three Olives posted:I think the distinction is the flat tire was lazy/value engineering, it could be and was later done without the flat tire, the notch give some extra space for the status bar where the needs of the projector and two cameras are very real tech limitations. The flat tire was the opposite of lazy/value engineering as it was there to incorporate a light sensor. At the time if you had a fully circular screen, it was because the device omitted features. Or, as some might put it, a "very real tech limitation". wolrah posted:Given that there are no current cameras that can work through a useful screen, unless you're arguing against having a front camera in the first place it's definitely extra screen. The first sentence is only true if you ignore the second and third. It's not extra screen unless you presuppose that there can't be a top bezel. As soon as you set arbitrary parameters like "can't have bezels" or "must have a FFC" then sure, tabs around the notch that you've decided (again, arbitrarily) that you must have are extra. But that's obviously dishonest and the flat tire and the notch are concessions to meet arbitrary restrictions (a light sensor here, a FFC there, a lack of bezels in both cases). It's not extra when it's a phone and a reduction when on a watch. "Look at all this extra space!" *Notification area can now only display two icons when it used to show eight* Golly if we get too much more of this extra space we won't have any room at all!
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Sep 2, 2018 03:10
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LastInLine posted:The flat tire was the opposite of lazy/value engineering as it was there to incorporate a light sensor. At the time if you had a fully circular screen, it was because the device omitted features. Or, as some might put it, a "very real tech limitation". Nope, there was already technology to put the light sensor under the screen or in the bezel, the flat tire was to bend the display connector. Yes they did put the light sensor there but also because it was cheaper to put the light sensor down there too and it made an excuse for the flat tire. 
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Sep 2, 2018 03:22
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Again, that's exactly the same as the notch, it's only a technical limitation once the decision not to have an adequate bezel has been set in stone. It's literally exactly the same technical limitation you gave for the notch:Three Olives posted:I think the distinction is the flat tire was lazy/value engineering, it could be and was later done without the flat tire, the notch give some extra space for the status bar where the needs of the projector and two cameras are very real tech limitations. I wonder if the notch would be necessary if instead of the projector and cameras being in the screen, they were located... wait for it... above a screen with a flat top???? I guess we'll never know.
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Sep 2, 2018 03:37
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wolrah posted:Given that there are no current cameras that can work through a useful screen, unless you're arguing against having a front camera in the first place it's definitely extra screen. LastInLine posted:I wonder if the notch would be necessary if instead of the projector and cameras being in the screen, they were located... wait for it... above a screen with a flat top???? I guess we'll never know. There is another option:  
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Sep 2, 2018 04:13
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The motorized camera in the top is dope but would be so easy to break.LastInLine posted:That isn't the point of confusion. The assertion was that the flat tire is an absence of screen whereas the tabs on either side of the notch are "extra" screen which is an astoundingly stupid assertion. You can view both as a cutout of screen that "should" be there or everything that's not a rectangle as "extra" but you can't pick one for one and one for the other. Your inability to understand this is interesting. Flat tires and notches both look less visually pleasing, I'll agree to that.
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Sep 2, 2018 04:33
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IMO flat tire is less ugly than notch. Casio's proteck watches actually have very tiny flat tire on their circular solar panel, but its so tiny nobody notices. That and their watches are busy as gently caress. Carry on your camera position war.
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Sep 2, 2018 05:03
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CLAM DOWN posted:I really really like the dual layer screen idea for a smartwatch and something good along these lines will absolutely get me to buy another Wear watch. My main issues with most smartwatches (besides terrible battery life in general) was the fact to even attempt to get a full day you have to have the screen off most of the time. The dual layer tech solves one of my demands for a watch, show the time when I look at it. Not when it attempts to guess when I look at it, or flick my wrist, just show the drat time all the time. The pebble was great, but every single one I got had the screen die, then Fitbit killed them off for good. I was hoping a Pixel watch would be on the horizon, but since it's not we can hope that something is announced by some wear makers when Qualcomm has their thing next week. 
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Sep 2, 2018 19:46
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PirateDentist posted:My main issues with most smartwatches (besides terrible battery life in general) was the fact to even attempt to get a full day you have to have the screen off most of the time. The dual layer tech solves one of my demands for a watch, show the time when I look at it. Not when it attempts to guess when I look at it, or flick my wrist, just show the drat time all the time. The pebble was great, but every single one I got had the screen die, then Fitbit killed them off for good. 
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Sep 2, 2018 20:04
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So... do you think that the manufacturer of virtually all Android Wear chipsets is going to release Toq 2.0 after 5 years rather than announce a new version of their main watch product? It's possible I suppose.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:21
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PirateDentist posted:My main issues with most smartwatches (besides terrible battery life in general) was the fact to even attempt to get a full day you have to have the screen off most of the time. The dual layer tech solves one of my demands for a watch, show the time when I look at it. Not when it attempts to guess when I look at it, or flick my wrist, just show the drat time all the time. The pebble was great, but every single one I got had the screen die, then Fitbit killed them off for good. I wish someone would just make an Android Wear device with an epaper screen like the pebble time had. IMO they got it right RIP.
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Sep 3, 2018 15:04
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PirateDentist posted:I was hoping a Pixel watch would be on the horizon, but since it's not we can hope that something is announced by some wear makers when Qualcomm has their thing next week. Huawei CEO says they haven't given up on smartwatches, would like to have one week battery life: https://www.digitaltrends.com/wearables/huawei-richard-yu-smartwatches-news/
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Sep 3, 2018 22:23
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Listen to this hype man sucking up to the new Diesel Wear watch. https://youtu.be/8VBDEpJEm48
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Sep 4, 2018 22:17
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Anybody know what time the Qualcomm event is happening and if there is any live coverage? Edit: Well, poo poo. I posted this and immediately afterward saw that Gizmodo has coverage.
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Sep 10, 2018 17:19
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So as predicted, the new chip is not any more powerful and is not on a new process. However, Qualcomm claims to have delivered on the number one request, battery life improvements: https://www.androidauthority.com/qualcomm-snapdragon-wear-3100-smartwatch-chipset-897457/ quote:This new SoC uses the same 28nm process and quad-core Cortex-A7 CPU as Wear 2100 with a number of notable tweaks. These include a revamped DSP unit, new power management controller, NFC components from Qualcomms partner at NXP, and a host of power optimizations. The Snapdragon Wear 3100 boasts 67 percent less power consumption in low power mode, 49 percent less for GPS, 43 percent less for keyword detection, 35 percent less draw when updating the clock face, 34 percent less juice needed for MP3 playback, and 13 percent less power consumption for voice queries over Bluetooth or Wi-Fi than the Wear 2100. Much of the improved battery life comes from actually adding another chip to the set, a tiny coprocessor:   The coprocessor doesn't run Android, it runs a tiny embedded OS. The trick is that it has enough graphics capability to take over the screen during ambient mode. Qualcomm says it can display 16 different colors, a moving second hand, and even some complications. Meanwhile the main ARM cores are able to remain completely asleep. This handoff of screen control between two different chips running two different OS's makes me wonder how challenging it will be to create watch faces (and also what bugs will be introduced), but the improved battery life is appreciated.
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Sep 10, 2018 17:54
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Rastor posted:So as predicted, the new chip is not any more powerful and is not on a new process. However, Qualcomm claims to have delivered on the number one request, battery life improvements: Cool stuff, but in tyool 2018 I'd expect a bit more than a "refresh" of a 3 year old architecture with the bare minimum of improvement. I mean, just out of sheer curiosity, how hard would it be for Qualcomm to take a relatively recent Snapdragon (say the 625? it has good power efficiency), cut out some parts, downclock it or whatever and and slap it into a smartwatch? I am very ignorant about this so it might be literally impossible, but... TorakFade fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 18:55
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Oh it's possible, but not likely cost effective. Qualcomm doesn't own their own fabs. They contract out to TSMC or Samsung. I'm sure 28nm fab costs are a bargain compared to 10nm FinFET. There in lies the issue. Qualcomm needs to make a product that is attractive to integrators from a cost perspective. They need to make something that will hit a massive swath if devices from sub $100 to bespoke $600 watches from a famous brand. The market isn't large enough to warrant a tiered product strategy. This is where things are different than Apple. They are willing to pay for better fab processes for their watch SoC because they are building a complete product and control the whole BOM and set the retail price. In theory, nothing is stopping someone from stuffing a SD845 or a SD710 in a watch and scheduling the hell out of the big cores. It would have to be a high margin device though and most high margin devices are piggybacking off of some other reference design.
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Sep 10, 2018 19:08
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Your phone probably has about 3000mAh battery, a smartwatch can cram at best maybe 400mAh into that space. I'm quite disappointed that the next updated chip is so lacklustre. Can the coprocessor at least manage heart rate tracking and step counts without waking the main system?
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Sep 10, 2018 19:11
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Budgie posted:Your phone probably has about 3000mAh battery, a smartwatch can cram at best maybe 400mAh into that space. This is disappointing and confirms my suspicion that Android Wear is one of those pet Google projects that is on its way to becoming abandoned.
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Sep 10, 2018 19:18
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Budgie posted:Your phone probably has about 3000mAh battery, a smartwatch can cram at best maybe 400mAh into that space. Qualcomm says that their improvements will enable all-day heart rate tracking. I suspect the asterisk, however, is that with it enabled you'll be back to 1-2 days of battery instead of going for a week.
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Sep 10, 2018 20:17
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I couldn't care less about more than two days battery life. Guess I have no excuse to buy a new one. Very happy with my Armani anyway, besides its tendency to turn off text notifications randomly, and the garbage magnetic charging connector. It gets way more compliments than any other smartwatch I've had (5+) mainly from people who thought it was a regular watch until the screen changed. Edit: pic for reference 
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Sep 10, 2018 20:28
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I just hate how bad the new Google Fit is. You still has no social networking features at all. It takes forever to start and stop a run. I start endomundo and Google Fit at the same time, in the end it has half km less count than the other app because its so slow. Also freeze in the background alll the time. I can't go to multi tasking screen to stop the app. I have to restart phone to kill a run. ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME?!
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Sep 10, 2018 21:04
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Apparently the coprocessor stuff leads to just 5 extra hours of battery life over existing models, which yawn and 
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Sep 11, 2018 00:27
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lol qualcomm is a fuckin joke
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Sep 11, 2018 03:51
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qualcomm 100% threw together this processor over the course of several months to superficially prove that they still "care"
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Sep 11, 2018 06:40
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logikv9 posted:qualcomm 100% threw together this processor over the course of several months to superficially prove that they still "care" Apparently Qualcomm countered the "you didn't do anything for two years" claim by stating they released some software updates so obviously they do
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Sep 11, 2018 06:43
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we should be lucky as hell for those software updates, they had their Best People spending years on designing a cutting edge Next Gen processor which boasts *flips page* basically the same poo poo with one more thing tacked on
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Sep 11, 2018 07:57
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loling that Samsung + Apple will be the only good options going forward just because they have people who give a poo poo designing their chips
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Sep 11, 2018 07:58
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I'd just like to point out that I was 100% correct when I called this back in July.
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Sep 11, 2018 10:50
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logikv9 posted:loling that Samsung + Apple will be the only good options going forward just because they have people who give a poo poo designing their chips Hey since ur a mod now (condolences) you wanna change the title to Wear OS? If it's gonna die a slow death it might as well be under the right name.
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Sep 11, 2018 13:25
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rip wearos: thought about updates and died
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Sep 11, 2018 13:29
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Hey since ur a mod now (condolences) you wanna change the title to Wear OS? If it's gonna die a slow death it might as well be under the right name. Mods can only do poo poo in their own subforum. Title changed.
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Sep 11, 2018 14:37
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Thank you sir. "Remember the Nexus Q or Chromecast? Me neither. Meet Google's Nexus Player" could have used a name change years ago too, to something like "Google ecosystem products" https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3561652
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Sep 11, 2018 14:57
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Here are you actual smart watch options Casual iPhone user: iWatch (they are the only kind I see in subway) Casual Android user: Samsung Watch Hardcore sports freak and/or hikers: Garmin Military hiker: Rangeman B1000 Casual active people who want a fashion accessories: G-Shock/Protrek Nerd who wants to run android apps on their twist: China full android watches Google fans: this is a hard one, maybe Fossil Android watch Don't worry about android pay solution, it's not worth your trouble. Just carry a spare credit card.
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Sep 11, 2018 15:19
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tino posted:Here are you actual smart watch options For what it is worth, I have been mostly happy with my Huawei Watch 2 classic. I think is looks reasonable decent. It's doesn't feel too big or bulky. It has on board GPS, NFC, heart-rate monitor, WiFi, android pay, no flat tire. Can get 2+ days pretty easily out of it, but I charge it every night. The performance has been acceptable since I disabled the always listening and disabled the fitness tracking apps that I didn't use (turned off Huawei Health and Runtastic, but left Google Fit turned on). I do think it's a bad thing that I had to make those changes to make the watch not be sluggish.
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Sep 11, 2018 16:02
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The year of the Android smart watch is the new year of Linux is ready for the desktop
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Sep 11, 2018 17:13
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Thank you sir. "Remember the Nexus Q or Chromecast? Me neither. Meet Google's Nexus Player" could have used a name change years ago too, to something like "Google ecosystem products" Yeah, it's archived so we're hooped, but in the future (I may make a sticky post about this), please use the report button! It's not only for assholes! Use it to give me a heads up on a rename, an edit, whatever is necessary!
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Sep 11, 2018 18:00
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