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Hitchhiking is pretty common in most places outside the US, especially where public transportation is spotty. I've only done it a few times, but I know people who have hitchhiked across Europe.
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Sep 10, 2018 13:24
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Groovelord Neato posted:my incredulity was hitchhiking specifically. it's such an outdated concept to me. To be honest so is soldiers on buses for me. You see the odd squaddie on public transport in the UK but for the most part I think private transport is used (parents/spouses etc). Could be entirely wrong. Just perception.
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Sep 10, 2018 14:06
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Your Parents posted:I'm glad that book is a useful source for antizionists considering it exists as this disgusting bragging list of racist Arabic jokes and disrespect for the murdered Not sure I got that from the author. His sources are entirely Israeli and he's recording, fairly accurately, an Israeli perspective. There are definitely bits of casual racism (eg his usage of the word 'terrorist' to describe any kind of Arab irregular) and he far too often defends the Mossad and the IDF as having almost too much concern for human life. I don't come to the same conclusions about many of the events or their causes but think it's valid look at how Israeli governments have thought and generally acted and the interview snippets he puts forward are often quite insightful. And despite not relying on any (or, at least, very few) Palestinian/Arab primary sources, he still tries to bring a Palestinian perspective on a given attack here or an Iranian perspective on an event there. Meanwhile Begin comes across as a paranoid monster, Shamir as some sort of trainwreck, Sharon as a monstrous hero, Ehud Barak as a vain gloryboy, Olmert as fairly sensible but a bit useless, Arafat as a lucky but very smart ambiguity, Mughniyeh as careful but highly-intelligent and dastardly etc. To be clear here: the book isn't a fully-fledged narrative history of events as they happened. They're a look from the perspective of three or four main actors (Mossad, AMAN, IDF etc) and by that nature there are huge oversights, gaps and problems with interpretation. But it's a good account of those perspectives.
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Sep 10, 2018 14:13
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Hong XiuQuan posted:To be honest so is soldiers on buses for me. You see the odd squaddie on public transport in the UK but for the most part I think private transport is used (parents/spouses etc). Could be entirely wrong. Just perception. Public transport lines rarely go to military bases in the US. The US is big and has almost no public transit outside of the big cities, and military bases generally aren't placed that close to cities. On top of that, Israel has a higher percentage of its population in the military, and unlike the US, often uses its military for internal police work and other domestic-ish operations. Especially in the West Bank, where Israeli residences and "hostile territory" are often within a few kilometers of each other. I don't know about the UK, but I'd wager it ranks somewhere in between those two extremes. After all, even compared to England, Israel is still smaller and denser and for the most part more recently built.
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Sep 10, 2018 16:37
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If Hamas actually wanted to target soldiers they could focus on hitting military bases or checkposts, of which there were and are plenty. Killing tons of civilians was a feature, not some unfortunate side-effect of them being forced to target civilian transports because they may have had some soldiers on them.
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Sep 10, 2018 17:28
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The same could alternately be said of Israel; if they wanted to they could very easily have chosen not to target high-rise apartment complexes with apache helicopters during the 2nd Intifada. Also the IDF racked up a body count an order of magnitude higher than anything the palestinian resistance groups managed.
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Sep 10, 2018 18:48
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I just think it's kind of silly to revise history to make it as if Hamas were aiming for soldiers in any way, shape or form. They proudly targeted civilians, they didn't even bother with any kind of asinine "unfortunate incident" rhetoric. They weren't aiming from some FOB through drones or whatever, they had their people on the ground, willing to blow themselves up, going into nightclubs and coffeehouses. You can say that's all legitimate and whatabout the IDF, but don't erase their depravity to score points.
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Sep 10, 2018 19:46
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I'm not saying what you think I am. Also you want to talk asinine I think it's pretty ridiculous to hear israeli civilians whine about being afraid to ride buses because they were afraid of suicide bombers when the IDF were using modern military hardware on apartments and mosques and killing entire families with sidewinder missiles and gatling guns. Ultramega fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 20:36
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I think he's talking to Hong XiuQuan.
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Sep 10, 2018 20:38
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I just think it's kind of silly to revise history to make it as if Hamas were aiming for soldiers in any way, shape or form. They proudly targeted civilians, they didn't even bother with any kind of asinine "unfortunate incident" rhetoric. They weren't aiming from some FOB through drones or whatever, they had their people on the ground, willing to blow themselves up, going into nightclubs and coffeehouses. You can say that's all legitimate and whatabout the IDF, but don't erase their depravity to score points.
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Sep 10, 2018 20:47
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Hamas has the right to defend itself. It's unfortunate the Tzahal terrorists are using human shields, and the blame lay squarely on them.
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Sep 10, 2018 21:29
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Absurd Alhazred posted:If Hamas actually wanted to target soldiers they could focus on hitting military bases or checkposts, of which there were and are plenty. Killing tons of civilians was a feature, not some unfortunate side-effect of them being forced to target civilian transports because they may have had some soldiers on them. Do you believe Israel attacking targets that will certainly cause civilian casualties, but with a veneer of legitimacy, isn't a feature? Two wrongs don't make a right and all that but moral handwringing at Hamas' tactics while Israel is doing the same thing with a couple orders of magnitude more firepower is absurd.
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Sep 10, 2018 21:33
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When you're willing to address my argument beyond the bland whataboutism I was expecting, let me know.
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 21:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:When you're willing to address my argument beyond the bland whataboutism I was expecting, let me know. When Israel attacks a Hamas "bunker" in an apartment building adjacent to a hospital, the general international reaction is some level of light condemnation with no action ever taken. A civilian bus with a good proportion of soldiers on it is at least as legitimate of a target, but the same international community condemns Hamas in the strongest terms and arms (or accepts the arming of) Israel. It's not whataboutism, it's the blatant hypocrisy of the response that should give the people in the countries that keep the situation intractable some second thoughts.
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Sep 10, 2018 21:42
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:When Israel attacks a Hamas "bunker" in an apartment building adjacent to a hospital, the general international reaction is some level of light condemnation with no action ever taken. A civilian bus with a good proportion of soldiers on it is at least as legitimate of a target, but the same international community condemns Hamas in the strongest terms and arms (or accepts the arming of) Israel. It's not whataboutism, it's the blatant hypocrisy of the response that should give the people in the countries that keep the situation intractable some second thoughts. I'm not talking about international condemnation, I'm literally talking about Hong XiuQuan making up an excuse for Hamas out of whole cloth, when Hamas never felt the need to justify themselves in this way. If facts don't matter, why are we having conversations?
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Sep 10, 2018 21:44
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I'm not talking about international condemnation, I'm literally talking about Hong XiuQuan making up an excuse for Hamas out of whole cloth, when Hamas never felt the need to justify themselves in this way. If facts don't matter, why are we having conversations? Feel free to tell me where I’ve made any excuse for Hamas. I’ve gone the extra step to say exactly what I think for both intentional and reckless killing of civilians. I’ve said that even in cases where several IDF were killed action was unjustifiable because of likelihood of significant loss of life. Perhaps you should engage with what has been said, and then as a result of someone inferring way too much, clarified?
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Sep 10, 2018 22:05
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An active duty Israeli soldier who gets killed in a bus bombing should count as a military casualty, similar to how the Hiroshima bombing counted the 20,000 soldiers killed in the barracks as military casualties.
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Sep 10, 2018 22:15
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Xander77 posted:You're just being Mate, the person I was talking to mentioned soldiers hitchhiking. I thought it was interesting they used public transport. Hamas was clearly not targeting only soldiers when hitting out at buses. The point about soldiers on buses was that whatever Hamas was targeting, they ended up killing lots of soldiers. It’s an illustration of the point. I’ve made my position on targeting or being reckless towards civilians clear.
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Sep 10, 2018 22:15
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Ultramega posted:IDF were using modern military hardware on apartments and mosques and killing entire families with sidewinder missiles and gatling guns. The Sidewinder is an air to air missile, and the low caliber gatling guns on the Blackhawk and Cobra (the latter retired in 2013) are unsuitable for killing families in any kind of cover. Most helicopter strikes by Israel are done with the laser guided Hellfire missile. An anti-tank missile designed to fight the soviets, it is effective at hitting point targets at distances up to 7 km. It is distinguishable from other anti-tank missiles by it's high arcing flight path, which improves range compared to a straight path, and improves destructive effect by striking the target on it's top surface.   e. gif e2. The Hellfire can also be used against slow moving aerial targets. There are 2 known air kills, both by Israeli Apaches (Iranian UAV and a Cessna 152 crossing from Lebanon). Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 22:19
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Preen Dog posted:its called a magazine, not a clip
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Sep 10, 2018 22:44
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Cat Mattress posted:Hamas has the right to defend itself. It's unfortunate the Tzahal terrorists are using human shields, and the blame lay squarely on them. Maybe the hilarious hyperbole would be better suited for the thread in the funny politics shitposting forum, not the thread in the forum for pedantic nitpicking? Hong XiuQuan posted:Mate, the person I was talking to mentioned soldiers hitchhiking. I thought it was interesting they used public transport. Hamas was clearly not targeting only soldiers when hitting out at buses. The point about soldiers on buses was that whatever Hamas was targeting, they ended up killing lots of soldiers. It’s an illustration of the point. I’ve made my position on targeting or being reckless towards civilians clear. Israel has universal* conscription and puts uniformed soldiers all over the place in high-traffic areas as security theater. Any mass casualty incident targeted against civilians will likely hurt some active duty soldiers too, so this is pretty much useless as a metric.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:12
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Trump Administration Threatens International Criminal Court and PLO John Bolton just simultaneously closed the PLO's office in Washington and declared that Israel and the US will not answer to and do not respect anything the International Criminal Court has to say (e.g. we get to do whatever war crimes we like) quote:Mr. Bolton also announced that the United States would shut down the Palestine Liberation Organization’s office in Washington — a decision linked to the International Criminal Court, which he said was being prodded by the Palestinians to investigate Israel. quote:“If the court comes after us, Israel, or other US allies we will not sit quietly,” he said, also threatening to impose the same sanctions on any country that aided the investigation.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:23
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Moon Atari posted:[..]the US will not answer to and do not respect anything the International Criminal Court has to say (e.g. we get to do whatever war crimes we like) This was already always the case but it's nice that he just says it like it is
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Sep 11, 2018 01:05
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Main Paineframe posted:Israel has universal* conscription and puts uniformed soldiers all over the place in high-traffic areas as security theater. Any mass casualty incident targeted against civilians will likely hurt some active duty soldiers too, so this is pretty much useless as a metric. Think you’ll find for my point it’s a perfect metric. So now we have a couple of reasons for so many soldiers on buses - transport links and security theatre. Could also argue that it’s increased because of the propensity for buses to see attacks. In any case, it’s an interesting insight into Israeli society. Possibly less for you if you’re an Israeli and this is the norm.
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Sep 11, 2018 06:29
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Israel should stop hiding their soldiers behind civilians
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Sep 11, 2018 06:36
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Every male above the age of 18 can be retroactively classified as a soldier, though, so you can at least fudge the numbers to get a ratio of military casualties to civilian casualties that your allies will accept.
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Sep 11, 2018 06:51
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Moon Atari posted:Trump Administration Threatens International Criminal Court and PLO It's cool that Israel is the most white supremacist nation on Earth and brings down the entire rest of the world
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Sep 11, 2018 12:59
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Every male above the age of 18 can be retroactively classified as a soldier, though, so you can at least fudge the numbers to get a ratio of military casualties to civilian casualties that your allies will accept. Israel has plenty of female soldiers.
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Sep 11, 2018 17:40
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I don't think "actually, killing civilians is cool and good and here's a bunch of excuses they can use" is the best tack to take because you're mad about Israeli massacres of Palestinian civilians.
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Sep 11, 2018 20:08
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it is however a good reason not to give a gently caress when a couple of israeli civilians do die. you know, when the other side doesn't give a gently caress either
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Sep 11, 2018 20:12
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I think that wouldn't go over well with their extremely big-tent structure.  (Link to Facebook post)
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Sep 12, 2018 04:35
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By popular demand posted:Thing is I had never joined a mailing list or even expressed support for Meretz. Before the Meretz internal elections they called me 30 times within the same day to ask who I'd be voting for as I made the mistake of enlisting to the party. That was a fun day.
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Sep 12, 2018 09:39
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Since when would Israeli need to obtain permission from anyone to take whatever they want from Arabs?
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Sep 12, 2018 10:53
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Cat Mattress posted:Since when would Israeli need to obtain permission from anyone to take whatever they want from Arabs? According to the numbers here sometime between 1974 and 1976. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present
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Sep 12, 2018 11:02
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Kurnugia posted:it is however a good reason not to give a gently caress when a couple of israeli civilians do die. you know, when the other side doesn't give a gently caress either Acrually killing civilains is bad regardless of somebody else doing it worse than you.
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Sep 12, 2018 16:21
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Hey, I've got a brilliant idea! What if... what if we both started posting furiously every time one side in this century long war produces civilian casualties? I think that if we could make it clear that one of the sides in this ongoing genocide has not in fact ceased attacking civilians on an occasion, it'll mean the other side has no necessity to cease targeting civilians either. That way we're going to arrive very soon in a permanent and valuable conclusion to this debate or perhaps instead dogwhistling about the civilian dead of the side currently engaged in an active genocide isn't a subject anyone should give a gently caress about. looking at israeli conduct in recent decades at least doesn't get my well of sympathy overflowing when a couple of their reservists get stabbed. when that poo poo goes both ways, you kinda lose your right to complain about it when it comes back to you
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Sep 12, 2018 16:51
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It's not like we were talking about Israeli attacks and someone tried to derail it by pointing to Hamas. We were talking about hitchhiking and transit, only for someone to suddenly jump in with an active defense of bus bombings for some reason. It's not like those even happen anymore.
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Sep 12, 2018 17:47
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Ah, well in that case please excuse my derailing of your talk about Hamas attacks by pointing to Israel.
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Sep 12, 2018 17:54
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I mean I know it's a very important subject, debating who exactly has done more bad things. Israel or Palestine? Hwo's the REAL bad guy in this relationship??
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Sep 12, 2018 18:09
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Main Paineframe posted:It's not like we were talking about Israeli attacks and someone tried to derail it by pointing to Hamas. We were talking about hitchhiking and transit, only for someone to suddenly jump in with an active defense of bus bombings for some reason. It's not like those even happen anymore. If you're going to lie about what I said, at least wait a couple of pages.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:26
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