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Three pages into a BotL-driven derail, I'd like to remind you that all you've gotten and all you're going to get are quiet omissions and moved goalposts. How dare you not realise that all MCU movies are literally indistinguishable and Iron Man is literally Guardians of the Galaxy in every single way. Good posters don't reply to BotL, good posters don't participate in BotL derails.
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Sep 12, 2018 15:02
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Marvel movies do not warrant this level of discussion It's a shame what's being done to Star Trek though
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Sep 12, 2018 15:12
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Desperado Bones posted:This. Disney knew since he was hired, people on twitter actually called him out on his tweets years ago, he later apologized. He apologized again in interviews. And again when this poo poo show was brought on him, and again and again and again...and I'm sure he keeps apologizing to this day. The thing is that he wasn't back paddling like many other shitlords do. He acknowledged he was an rear end, the severity of his tweets and actually tried to do something about it. Saying you've changed doesn't actually mean you've changed. Gunn apologized for edgy tweets, and then made slanderous tweets, which is what led to him being targeted. e: Plastik posted:Three pages into a BotL-driven derail, I'd like to remind you that all you've gotten and all you're going to get are quiet omissions and moved goalposts. How dare you not realise that all MCU movies are literally indistinguishable and Iron Man is literally Guardians of the Galaxy in every single way. No one is arguing those movies are identical. It's merely being noted that Gunn didn't do anything new and is probably just as replaceable as any other MCU director. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 15:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Saying you've changed doesn't actually mean you've changed. Gunn apologized for edgy tweets, and then made slanderous tweets, which is what led to him being targeted. ...is BotL a Trump supporter and/or centrist? Because wow.
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Sep 12, 2018 15:51
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Plastik posted:Three pages into a BotL-driven derail, I'd like to remind you that all you've gotten and all you're going to get are quiet omissions and moved goalposts. How dare you not realise that all MCU movies are literally indistinguishable and Iron Man is literally Guardians of the Galaxy in every single way. Then just report them and leave the thread, this posting about posters poo poo is far more insufferable than anything BotL or SMG or anyone else in CineD could ever post. This is also ignoring the actually-interesting discussion that BotL has raised, which is the absurdity of the GotG movies’ reputation for being “sentimental” when they’re just as crude as Gunn’s older works and are about a group of fundamentally immoral people. Pirate Jet fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 16:05
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Saying you've changed doesn't actually mean you've changed. Gunn apologized for edgy tweets, and then made slanderous tweets, which is what led to him being targeted. Slanderous against who? Because if you think that being mean to the president is reason enough to fired, then: 21 Muns posted:...wow.
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Sep 12, 2018 16:10
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I have Blu-rays for all of the MCU movies because of course I do. I normally watch the movie once and then watch all the special features and then shelve it. I have plenty of other things to watch. The modern comic book genre movies I have watched more than once on Blu-ray are:
That's it. Those are the only ones that stood above just being "entertainment" (WW's 3rd act not-withstanding). You can call Ant-man an Heist Movie or Winter Soldier a Cold War Thriller and they are and that makes them interesting and good. But it doesn't mean that pulled me in like those movies in my list above. Each one was a breath of fresh air when it was released. Each one proved a point that nobody else was bothering to prove.
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Sep 12, 2018 16:36
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Alhazred posted:Slanderous against who? Because if you think that being mean to the president is reason enough to fired, then: It's the same problem as with the Gotg movies: they're nominally about amoral killers redeeming themselves, but they don't actually change, they're still amoral killers but now they make speeches about caring and family. Likewise, Gunn nominally moved past his edgy tweets, but in reality he just changed to more generally acceptable topics (like an unpopular politician). Thus the argument that he changed and didn't deserve to get fired doesn't really hold water.
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Sep 12, 2018 16:41
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King Vidiot posted:Wow, that actually pisses me off more than anything. That was one of the only good rides at Disney World. Only the California Adventure one got changed, the OG Tower at the Studios is gonna live forever. The Guardians ride in Disney World (the only Marvel property that will have a ride in Orlando thanks to Marvel’s bankruptcy-preventing agreement they made with Universal in the 90s) is in Epcot, replacing Ellen’s Energy Adventure, which only continued to exist because Ellen became even more famous due to her talk show than she ever was as a comedian.
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Sep 12, 2018 16:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's the same problem as with the Gotg movies: they're nominally about amoral killers redeeming themselves, but they don't actually change, they're still amoral killers but now they make speeches about caring and family. Dude, your basically arguing in favor of mccarthyism.
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Sep 12, 2018 17:05
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I thought that was to do with the blog or whatever where he described or rated or whatever superheroines that he wanted to gently caress? The apology like 7 or so years ago was, yeah, but he has referenced and apologized about the tweets/being an idiot on social media in interviews since then. One was as recent as like last year.
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Sep 12, 2018 17:11
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Alhazred posted:Dude, your basically arguing in favor of mccarthyism. You're never going to penetrate a skull that thick, give it up. The man just said "Making jokes about pedophilia is the same as saying mean things about Trump. These things are equal in my brain." You can't loving argue with somebody who believes that.
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Sep 12, 2018 17:39
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Alhazred posted:Dude, your basically arguing in favor of mccarthyism. Let me get this straight - noting that Gunn hadn't really changed from being an obnoxious edgelord is the same as accusing people of treason? Keep in mind that I haven't even argued that Gunn should have been fired. Disney was hypocritical for doing so, but it wasn't some injustice. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 17:45
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
Blacklisting people because of their political opinions are injustice. And you are apparently fine with that.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:02
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Alhazred posted:Blacklisting people because of their political opinions are injustice. And you are apparently fine with that. James Gunn hasn't been blacklisted for his political opinions. He was fired from a company over his personal conduct. His political opinions led to this situation, but he wasn't fired over them. Disney/Marvel doesn't care that much if you criticize Trump.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:18
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Alhazred posted:Blacklisting people because of their political opinions are injustice. And you are apparently fine with that. This is a bit of an overreaction, he definitely wasn't blacklisted. Him losing his job was dumb af but I highly doubt the rest of Hollywood is going to avoid working with him over it.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:20
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The conversation has gotten way off base. What used to be about a criticism of Disney, who had to have been aware of Gunn’s past and knew about the content still in the GotG movies, suddenly changing their mind out of fear of making 3% less on GotG3 is now mourning for James Gunn’s very-much-not-dead career. Performative wokeness is the new Disney marketing strategy. Marvel made all the money in the world off of pretending that you could support the black community by giving Disney money for tickets to a movie about a monarchist king chosen through combat crushing a rebellion, and they look to be pulling a similar move with the marketing for Captain Marvel. When you consider this, the move to fire Gunn makes complete sense. Disney is absolutely the bad guy in this story, not Cernovich - though don’t worry, he’s the bad guy in pleeeeenty others. There is a general fear in consumerist nerd circles to criticize Disney. It’s a fascinating phenomenon.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:30
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Pirate Jet posted:The conversation has gotten way off base. What used to be about a criticism of Disney, who had to have been aware of Gunn’s past and knew about the content still in the GotG movies, suddenly changing their mind out of fear of making 3% less on GotG3 is now mourning for James Gunn’s very-much-not-dead career. This is a "straw that broke the camel's back" moment for me, a 43 year-old woman with no kids who is definitely not their target demographic. My "old man screams at clouds" moment, if you will. For Captain Marvel, I'm already feeling that it will be less a story about Carol Danvers and more about the team she is on and about SHIELD so they can continue to minimize women in their films while pretending that they aren't. Just like they erased queer identities from characters for reasons. The scales have fallen off my eyes.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:39
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:James Gunn hasn't been blacklisted for his political opinions. He was fired from a company over his personal conduct. His political opinions led to this situation, but he wasn't fired over them. Disney/Marvel doesn't care that much if you criticize Trump. I'll give you that he wasn't blacklisted, only fired from arguably the most powerful corporations in the US. But here's your argument: Likewise, Gunn nominally moved past his edgy tweets, but in reality he just changed to more generally acceptable topics (like an unpopular politician). Thus the argument that he changed and didn't deserve to get fired doesn't really hold water. It's hard to read that in any different way than that you think Gunn deserved to be fired because he made fun of Trump.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:44
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Aleph Null posted:For Captain Marvel, I'm already feeling that it will be less a story about Carol Danvers and more about the team she is on and about SHIELD so they can continue to minimize women in their films while pretending that they aren't. Just like they erased queer identities from characters for reasons. The Marvel Method: because when your fanbase is so eager to ship any and every character, queerbaiting is just as effective as actual representation without actually having to do the work!
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Sep 12, 2018 18:50
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Alhazred posted:It's hard to read that in any different way That's fair. I was trying to say that him apologizing for the tweets doesn't make the firing unjust.
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Sep 12, 2018 18:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's fair. I was trying to say that him apologizing for the tweets doesn't make the firing unjust. Why not? He has realized that those tweets were wrong and he did stop making tweets like that. Why is it just to punish him for that?
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Sep 12, 2018 18:55
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Alhazred posted:Why not? He has realized that those tweets were wrong and he did stop making tweets like that. Why is it just to punish him for that? It's not just or unjust. Gunn was simply vulnerable to attacks like this because he tried to be both edgy and family-friendly, like his movies. e: No one is even pretending that this is a question of artistic freedom, and people instead decry that their beloved film series might get cut short. As important as these movies are to them, they have undeniably contributed negatively to film culture, and Gunn's firing is no great loss to cinema. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 19:09
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
I think it's more that this send a message that you can't criticize Trump unless you have never made an edgy joke on social media or else you risk losing your job.
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Sep 12, 2018 19:21
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Alhazred posted:I think it's more that this send a message that you can't criticize Trump unless you have never made an edgy joke on social media or else you risk losing your job. Conveniently this serves Disney very well.
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Sep 12, 2018 19:23
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Alhazred posted:I think it's more that this send a message that you can't criticize Trump unless you have never made an edgy joke on social media or else you risk losing your job. 1) Absolutely no one is less motivated to criticize Trump over this. 2) People who make rape jokes on Twitter probably don't provide worthwhile political commentary in the first place.
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Sep 12, 2018 19:29
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Low Desert Punk posted:lol if you don't think directors under Disney are literally 100 percent replaceable I think everyone working at Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm became anxiously aware of this during the last couple of months. This is the same company that uses slave labor in Chinese sweatshops to make toys for western trust fund kids while aggressively promoting "family values", BTW.
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Sep 12, 2018 20:17
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Lol trust fund kids.
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Sep 12, 2018 20:37
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banned from Starbucks posted:Lol trust fund kids. Oh man, look at this courageous white kid here apologizing for Disney. I'm sure they would be hosed without you, boss.
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Sep 12, 2018 20:44
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It wasn't an apology for disney so much as it was calling you a moron.
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Sep 12, 2018 20:48
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I’d like to see the breakneck willingness to accept apologies for statements made applied more broadly. People will crow for someone’s head over a dumbass tweet one moment and then call others oppressive for not offering Jesus-grade forgiveness for the asking when it’s someone they “like” whatever that means.
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Sep 12, 2018 20:50
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If you made a tweet that sucks 10 years ago, and or were in high school when made said tweet, and haven't repeated the content in said tweet, you should not be fired, or punished in any way.
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Sep 12, 2018 21:00
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Gunn was not in high school, the tweets were less than 10 years ago, and he repeated their content, lol
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Sep 12, 2018 21:03
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banned from Starbucks posted:It wasn't an apology for disney so much as it was calling you a moron. Trust fund kid spotted
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Sep 12, 2018 21:10
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Yeah no one wants to define the boundaries. They want it good and subjective so they can punish people they disagree with or have no affinity for while benevolently offering a pass to people they think are "ok". It's gross.
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Sep 12, 2018 22:11
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I wouldn’t even want people I hate to be taken down by old tweets. I just find that to be a step too far and pretty much cements the fact that you aren’t allowed to make mistakes, ever.
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Sep 12, 2018 22:16
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CelticPredator posted:I wouldn’t even want people I hate to be taken down by old tweets. I just find that to be a step too far and pretty much cements the fact that you aren’t allowed to make mistakes, ever. 
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Sep 12, 2018 22:30
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See James Gunn made some dumb tweets 7 years ago and has apologized multiple times. He has basically said, "yes, I know that was dumb and I was dumb, but I've grown and now I am less dumb". Rossanne Barr made some racist tweets a few months ago and people started quitting her show so ABC fired her. She then sort of apologized by saying people took her tweets out of context or didn't understand what she really meant. One person made the offensive comments years ago and actually admitted they were bad and apologized and has had time to show that he has actually grown and become a more mature person who no longer makes jokes like that. The other person's offensive opinions from basically yesterday haven't changed and she doesn't think they should change because they aren't wrong; she's just gonna try to be more careful about how she dog whistles it in the future.
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Sep 12, 2018 22:38
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Aleph Null posted:One person made the offensive comments years ago and actually admitted they were bad and apologized and has had time to show that he has actually grown and become a more mature person who no longer makes jokes like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edXxwl8kYlU&t=24s
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Sep 12, 2018 22:41
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At this point I think if the line has to be drawn so that Roseanne would have gotten a free pass in order to prevent something like Gunn's firing, so be it. People shouldn't go "oh he'll be fine lol", they should think if Gunn can be fired, who else could be next.
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