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There is a nice and easily determined line between discussing current cop related events (even if they spiral into the same institutional racism circle eventually) and wishing for the death of other people. Can we draw the line there?
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Sep 16, 2018 16:27
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:When did the wp sign become a thing? I learned of it here and it seemed like I was behind the times Stultus Maximus posted:Some time in the last year, the 4chan alt-righters said "hey, let's use the circle game sign and tell everyone it's a white power sign. Then when the media goes nuts about it, we'll be like "ha ha you idiots think that it's a white power sign but it isn't."" Among my friends in high school, the "ok" sign thrown below the belt line has always been a dumb jock game (ie silly and white as all get out). If a person does it, and you then look at the hand making the sign below the waist, they get to punch you. They still occasionally do it to each other on Facebook. There's definitely been an uptick in it lately; its just the latest dumb nostalgic "remember when?" thing. It certainly seems like some internet rascals found (or manufactured) some similar white power poo poo and saw an opportunity for chaos. Everybody eats it up because everybody expects the worst in TYOOL 2018. So yeah. Feels bad when an innocuous gesture gets mistaken for brazenly trumpeting membership in a violent sub-culture. I imagine being accused of "GANG AFFILIATION" when no such thing exists, based on a doodle or a jacket, feels even worse considering those consequences. So this is absolutely a teachable moment for white people. A Woke-able moment, if you will. Nice.
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Sep 16, 2018 16:34
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Laranzu posted:Can we draw the line there? You're missing half the equation. Aside from the violence most cop posts are a new tweet with a hot take followed by a page of the same old crap. People complain, I touch it, the cop white noise posters complain, we end up here. This has happened multiple times this year and I am sick of it.
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Sep 16, 2018 16:37
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The okay sign thing started in like 2015-2016 but didn't become "mainstream" until maybe mid 2017 when 4chan/kek chuds came out into the public due mainly to trump. You're right that they did it to make "liberals" freak out about a pretty universal sign but it's pretty apparent when people are trying to show it as white power and not just trying to say okay.
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Sep 16, 2018 16:39
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ngl i prefer our discussion to actually having to go to the CSPAM gently caress the police thread
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Sep 16, 2018 16:40
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Victor Vermis posted:Feels bad when an innocuous gesture gets mistaken for brazenly trumpeting membership in a violent sub-culture. It's how I feel when the term "wingnut" gets associated with people like Alex Jones, rather than a small fastener that makes a handy field-expedient throwing star. 
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Sep 16, 2018 16:44
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EBB posted:You're missing half the equation. Aside from the violence most cop posts are a new tweet with a hot take followed by a page of the same old crap. People complain, I touch it, the cop white noise posters complain, we end up here. This has happened multiple times this year and I am sick of it. So  the dudes with the dumb hot takes?I mean, I get that I don't fully appreciate your viewpoint since I've never been a mod on any forum or wish to be one, but a clear line of "don't advocate violence" isn't that controversial of a rule to enforce in terms of probations, is it? If a page of the "same Öls crap" doesn't includes advocating violence or cop death, is that a huge problem?
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Sep 16, 2018 16:52
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Also, once I return from the beer-consumption safety of my balcony, tell me to dig up the video of that coast guard disaster response dude that flashed that white power sign in the background on a live broadcast, because that one is the greatest example of racists being too dumb to follow the already-dumb-to-begin-with 4chan concept of it
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Sep 16, 2018 16:54
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EBB posted:Overwrites on the probations are in the mod queue. That's my bad- I got to a point of frustration yesterday at the way some of you are acting. However, I have asked time and again if there is anything new to add beyond "Institutional racism is a real and systemic problem and police are murdering people every day".The previous statement is a fact and I do not disagree with any of you. However, these discussion continually devolve into threats of violence or white noise about the problems with American policing. Some of you are straight up obstinate when I ask you to knock it off. If you want better moderation, try posting better as well. Not to be overly grim here but this applies to basically every topic in US politics right now. The same poo poo keeps happening over and over again, there's not much we can do other than keep the vigil as the country dissolves. I get that the cop thing is perhaps one of the more egregious examples but this is the dynamic of any current event discussion these days. Things are loving dark.
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Sep 16, 2018 16:55
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Not to be overly grim here but this applies to basically every topic in US politics right now. The same poo poo keeps happening over and over again, there's not much we can do other than keep the vigil as the country dissolves. I get that the cop thing is perhaps one of the more egregious examples but this is the dynamic of any current event discussion these days. Things are loving dark. Hey, don't be so negative, at least the chairman of your constitutional oversight agency didn't recently turn out to be a good, God-fearing racist that shared classified information with the Neonazi-party he was supposed to be investigating (  )
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Sep 16, 2018 17:00
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So what I'm hearing from the last two pages is whack anybody who calls for a lynching, and just ignore the white noise. Correct?
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Sep 16, 2018 17:07
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And I'm going to let this conversation age for a day or so to let the regulars filter through before I make a decision.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:09
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EBB posted:So what I'm hearing from the last two pages is whack anybody who calls for a lynching, and just ignore the white noise. Correct? Can we clarify that anyone that calls for the lynching of a COP. That calling for lynchings of politicians and the rich is still ok?
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Sep 16, 2018 17:09
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It's not like you give out probations for people talking about how bad Trump is, even though it's also the same thing of "egregious thing happens, people get angry and upset for a while, more egregious thing happens, nothing gets better it's always worse".
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Sep 16, 2018 17:10
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I read a history of the KKK a long rear end time ago and one of the chapters covered how a lot of the stuff they did was in the exact same vein as the current ok sign stupidity. Divorced from the current societal values they have invested in the end product, much of their presentation was supposed to be ridiculous so they could do exactly what is happening with the ok sign. Over the top rituals, elaborate uniforms (even the pointy hood, when taken out of the modern context, was a ridiculous, over the top hood), titles like Grand Wizard. Sure they went for some straight up bigotry like burning crosses or out and out violence, but they had the exact same "lol I'm trolling you bro don't take everything so serious" smoke screen. Everything old is new again.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:17
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It is not just the cops that are bad in the legal system: https://twitter.com/ScottHech/status/1040944800416100352?s=19 Cop chat has pretty much devolved into a similar situation as gun chat has, no one is going to convince anyone from the other side of the discussion to change their opinions, and its just white noise. Any calls or suggestions for violence against any party, whether LEO, politician, or anything else, does not further the discussion of the current events (the purpose of this thread) involving such individuals.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:18
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EBB, that's solid policy. I got a 6'er but sometimes I iust like to post nonsense and be a rapscallion 
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Sep 16, 2018 17:18
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Let the white noise be. It will find a happy median after a page or two. I agree with the no calling for vigilante justice on bad cops rule. Feel free to hand out surprise sixers for egregiously poo poo hot takes though.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:18
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Hot Karl Marx posted:it's pretty apparent when people are trying to show it as white power and not just trying to say okay. I hear ya on the Trump+Nazis stuff, but this part I'm not so sure about. By choosing something that isn't obvious to the uninitiated; yes, they can get their "hail hydra" rocks off, but they can also make themselves seem more numerous -and more persecuted- by virtue of most people not being extremely online.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:22
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EBB posted:So what I'm hearing from the last two pages is whack anybody who calls for a lynching, and just ignore the white noise. Correct? maffew buildings posted:EBB, that's solid policy. I got a 6'er but sometimes I iust like to post nonsense and be a rapscallion M_Gargantua posted:Let the white noise be. It will find a happy median after a page or two. I agree with the no calling for vigilante justice on bad cops rule. I'm with these two. e: I feel the white noise bullshit, getting that poo poo out, and generally feeling heard is prob beneficial to those posters up to a point. This world is wicked and loving depraved. Saying some poo poo on the internet is cathartic, even if its obvious and said a million times in the past. As long as it doesn't go beyond the certain point, its nbd. And when its nbd just let two finger enjoy himself 6'ering nerds. Viva Miriya fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Sep 16, 2018 |
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Sep 16, 2018 17:32
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More on my point about the two-fold benefits of the hand sign to actual Nazis. Take this photo from the article n4i posted: If you imagine a racist cop who intends to terrorize minorities, you picture these guys in your imagination. If you imagine fat-neck man baby rednecks who slid into law enforcement as a natural continuation of being a defensive lineman on their high school football team- the kind of guys who think it would be hilarious to throw down the "punch you" sign in a photo for the local paper- you also picture these guys in your imagination. Yes, they can be both of those things. But jumping to the first conclusion is an example of achieving the desired effect of choosing benign symbology and amping up the martyr complex of poor dumb middle America. bird food bathtub posted:I read a history of the KKK a long rear end time ago and one of the chapters covered how a lot of the stuff they did was in the exact same vein as the current ok sign stupidity. Divorced from the current societal values they have invested in the end product, much of their presentation was supposed to be ridiculous so they could do exactly what is happening with the ok sign. Over the top rituals, elaborate uniforms (even the pointy hood, when taken out of the modern context, was a ridiculous, over the top hood), titles like Grand Wizard. Sure they went for some straight up bigotry like burning crosses or out and out violence, but they had the exact same "lol I'm trolling you bro don't take everything so serious" smoke screen. But the hand sign isn't flashy or absurd? Its very low-key- probably intentionally so as I said above. Of course the "troll" groups are racists/out-right Nazis. Their leadership admits as much- there was a journalist (maybe VICE?) who accompanied them on the marches last summer and their older leaders were proud of adapting with the times and pushing their "memes" out to the world.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:34
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Victor Vermis posted:If you imagine fat-neck man baby rednecks who slid into law enforcement as a natural continuation of being a defensive lineman on their high school football team- the kind of guys who think it would be hilarious to throw down the "punch you" sign in a photo for the local paper- you also picture these guys in your imagination. Given the context and the times we live in I just don't think this is the case. You are correct in that the symbolism is having the desired effect- even a couple weeks a ago that was just the OK sign to me and I knew not to use it around Europeans because it means rear end in a top hat. Suddenly it's something entirely different. Man if they ruin my ability to give a thumbs-up I'm gonna be pissed.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:38
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EBB posted:Given the context and the times we live in I just don't think this is the case. You are correct in that the symbolism is having the desired effect- even a couple weeks a ago that was just the OK sign to me and I knew not to use it around Europeans because it means rear end in a top hat. Suddenly it's something entirely different. Oh it still means rear end in a top hat
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Sep 16, 2018 17:40
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Flikken posted:Can we clarify that anyone that calls for the lynching of a COP. That calling for lynchings of politicians and the rich is still ok? I think common sense could include the actual advocacy of violence/death outside of ye olde  / eat the rich etc.Right?
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Sep 16, 2018 17:40
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No thats actually Left
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Sep 16, 2018 17:42
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Victor Vermis posted:So yeah. Feels bad when an innocuous gesture gets mistaken for brazenly trumpeting membership in a violent sub-culture. I imagine being accused of "GANG AFFILIATION" when no such thing exists, based on a doodle or a jacket, feels even worse considering those consequences. So this is absolutely a teachable moment for white people. A Woke-able moment, if you will. This actually happened a few years ago. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.22927264189f It's pretty easy to find a context to tell you if it's one of the more common uses for that hand gesture. Are they african-american? Did they punch someone after they did it? Are they yelling at a sound tech? Do they have a history of white power statements? But the idea that they 'just accidentally' did it is just dumb as gently caress.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:47
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M_Gargantua posted:No thats actually Left Eh, whatever, I'm just gonna be over here in my luxurious 36 square meter Munich apartment posting without asking for "xyz to be literally killed / lynched / etc." regarding some current event, I think I'll be good. Wasn't too much effort to begin with Regarding the white power thing, now that I fully understand where the trend came from, I don't see how it's even a big problem. If this were the thumbs-up, it'd probably be a different discussion, but it's not. No one outside of loving divers or people describing how good food they are currently consuming is, uses that drat gesture. That leaves two groups of people: a) Racists that picked up that it's now cool to flash that gesture to signal to other racists that they're good people while thinking NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW BECAUSE IT MEANS 'OKAY' LOL b) Right-wingers that read about the origin of this dumb trend from alt-right sources thinking they're "just trolling" liberals and are okay with being mistaken for racists gently caress the both of them. Easy enough 
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Sep 16, 2018 17:50
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I'm sorry but 30 day probations for: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3757299&pagenumber=235&perpage=40#post463607166 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 16, 2018 17:57
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3757299&pagenumber=235&perpage=40#post463607166  you're still an insanely lovely poster
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Sep 16, 2018 18:05
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Eh, whatever, I'm just gonna be over here in my luxurious 36 square meter Munich apartment posting without asking for "xyz to be literally killed / lynched / etc." regarding some current event, I think I'll be good. Wasn't too much effort to begin with what if i just wanna gotcha somebody
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Sep 16, 2018 18:08
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Brute Squad posted:This actually happened a few years ago. quote:It's pretty easy to find a context to tell you if it's one of the more common uses for that hand gesture. Are they african-american? Did they punch someone after they did it? Are they yelling at a sound tech? Do they have a history of white power statements? Wait.. is the "look at the Ok-sign, get punched" thing now Black Twitter only? We were a bunch of white boys in the mid-90s when we started doing it. And as I said, I have friends who still do it. The context is clear: they aren't promoting white superiority. Jesus christ. The photo of the cops throwing the sign down has no context to suggest its a "white power" thing. Again, I'm not saying that its never a white power thing. I'm saying there are instances where it isn't and yes, loving of course, context matters.
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Sep 16, 2018 18:11
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Duzzy Funlop posted:That leaves two groups of people: gently caress it! I'm done. Whatever.
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Sep 16, 2018 18:14
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Y’all are dumb as hell
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Sep 16, 2018 18:17
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This ok sign thing just jogged my memory about something very similar in the Philippines about 3/4 years ago. In the Philippines there is obviously this large Muslim insurgency centered in the south, predominately in Mindanao and Jolo. Well the government came to a treaty with the main insurgent front to demilitarize in order to self govern a set of islands that were already Muslim majority populations. A part of the agreement was the Government gave themselves farther reaching authorities to crush the lesser insurgent organizations and specifically Abu Sayaf, which was an Al-Qaida affiliate (now its an ISIS one). Anyways, how this pertains, in order to get around a lot of the identification for social media recruitment, a lot of the members of BIFF and BILF, to of the smaller insurgent organizations wages a campaign of taking pictures with Politicians while holding up their finger in the “we’re number 1” fashion. They were getting those unknowing parties to do so as well, telling them it means a unified or singular Philippines. So a bunch of these pictures hit social media. The 1 symbol has been popular to jihadis as meaning the shahada and symbolizing their faith to Allah. They then started posting those pictures in their recruitment material, and more importantly to their financial backers in Saudi, UAE, and Qatar as a means to show infiltration in the government. So this isn’t exactly the first time something so innocuous has been used for ill gotten ends.
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Sep 16, 2018 18:18
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Victor Vermis posted:That's a great example of what I'm talking about, thanks. The context is that they're already in a number of overlapping at-risk demographics like being southern white cops/cop-adjacent with a right-wing bent to their social media habits.
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Sep 16, 2018 18:26
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EBB posted:So what I'm hearing from the last two pages is whack anybody who calls for a lynching, and just ignore the white noise. Correct? Agreed with ignoring the white noise. I use this thread as a news aggregator so I don't get particularly excited when I see 80 new posts about how this time we're totally going to solve institutional racism by pointing out that it exists, but the thread will fix itself as soon as something else comes up.
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Sep 16, 2018 18:45
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sharknado slashfic posted:I don't get particularly excited when I see 80 new posts about how this time we're totally going to solve institutional racism by pointing out that it exists Thank you for noticing this.
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Sep 16, 2018 19:01
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I don't post very regularly in here, but lurk a lot. I found it a bit brazen how people were going on and on about cops in a clear test of your limits, instead of taking the deescalating choice of waiting a bit and then perhaps gently asking what's allowed and what's forbidden. 30 days is an excessive punishment, but you've reached the same conclusion. I'm not sure that we're better off with not moderating the white noise. There's a reason gun chat has it's own place apart from the CE thread.
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Sep 16, 2018 19:06
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Victor Vermis posted:That's a great example of what I'm talking about, thanks. No. It's because Kappa Alpha Psi is a historically African American fraternity, and they use the 'ok sign' as a group identifier. Most fraternities and sororities have hand signs to represent their group. And Terminal Lances. So if a bunch of African-Americans pose making an 'ok sign', I'm going to assume they're a bunch of Kappas instead of trying to play a game that's based on subtlety and trickery. Because a group of people displaying a group identifier when posing together is a lot more likely occurrence than a group of people spontaneously deciding or coordinating to play a kid game together in a commemorative photo. Victor Vermis posted:The photo of the cops throwing the sign down has no context to suggest its a "white power" thing. Again, I'm not saying that its never a white power thing. I'm saying there are instances where it isn't and yes, loving of course, context matters. FAUXTON posted:The context is that they're already in a number of overlapping at-risk demographics like being southern white cops/cop-adjacent with a right-wing bent to their social media habits. The pipeline to white supremacism from those demographics is pretty well established.
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Sep 16, 2018 19:07
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Victor Vermis posted:More on my point about the two-fold benefits of the hand sign to actual Nazis. Take this photo from the article n4i posted: do you not know what context clues are? A bunch of cops wearing cammies that are masked up and throwing the OK sign en masse after making an arrest makes it pretty clear what their intention is. Same thing when some dude with a poo poo eating grin is throwing it up while next to a politician. PookBear fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 16, 2018 |
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