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fspades posted:Not really, because the game incentivizes to specialize your bros by giving them varying starting stats and aptitudes. You are not realizing the full potential of a bro with high melee skill & defense by not making him a two-hander for example. Making them a duelist is also a valid option. But then, that's effectively a variant of a two hander.
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Sep 16, 2018 19:15
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| # ? May 10, 2024 09:28 |
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Yeah it's kind of funny that one of the easiest ways to fail in BB is to build your bros too defensively because you know that the game wants to turn them all into mush, where in actuality defensive builds are something you use as a crutch to keep weaker brothers alive for long enough to keep things rolling along without too many casualties, so you can train up some badasses.
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Sep 16, 2018 19:57
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Shields stay great for the whole game on, say, mace bros, though. A mace bro isn't really along for their pure damage (though maces actually hit harder than you'd think) and a tanky mace guy is nice.
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Sep 16, 2018 19:59
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So is it worth it? Only legendary I've found on this run.  It has half the fatigue of a tier 3 cleaver and 18% more armor penetration.
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Sep 16, 2018 21:13
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I mean, it's certainly not great, but you're already deep enough into the game for a crisis to happen, so I assume all your bros that need it are in heavy armor now. At that point, what else are you gonna spend the money on? Besides, even if you blow the money on it you can probably still make it out of the Noble War with 50,000 or more.
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Sep 16, 2018 21:23
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What you need to buy is more food.
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Sep 16, 2018 22:42
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The Skeleton King posted:Trying to keep my guys alive in each fight is pretty obnoxious. Im starting to wish I could just go XCOM and throw endless bodies into a grinder. Try seed c5d33  Make a beeline for the big city where everything sells for 22%, Nieweland. Bounce between Wohlstadt to buy 3 dyes at 450, resell at Nieweland for 600. Similarly buy cheap wood at Hirschbach to make some coin at Nieweland. Hattlund is a village with cheap food. Once you have enough cash head to Torfburg for the Armory/Weaponsmith/Kennels trifecta. Wohlstadt also has a Fletcher.
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Sep 17, 2018 05:30
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Actually that's a good point, trading is a really big deal in the early game since it's basically free money, but it's dependent on a favourable map setup to be truly useful.
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Sep 17, 2018 09:31
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I basically do not care about a brother until he can get steel brow. Steel brow is all but required to stop your guys getting randomly one shot. Aside from that, perks are pretty much "what do you want to do better". I've always got at least 2 archers and 2 polearm dudes, I always have the polearm dudes equipped with Crossbows and Quick Hands for when the line closes. This means I very, very rarely have to advance on an enemy line and if I do i'll heavily consider just not doing that fight and retreating. For those not in the know, this is because when you have ranged superiority, the enemy will want to charge you, but if you do not, they'll turtle up around their archers and force you to them. The enemy does not know that your two additional crossbow users are actually complete poo poo at shooting, so they count in the ranged check. If you do let them turtle up, unless your sniper is a god who somehow manages to outshoot everyone the enemy has, they will probably win that fight or at the very least do far more damage than you need to take. So don't take that fight. If you know the enemy is coming to you, you can set up accordingly. I used to have spears on the flanks, but once I get good greatsword users I put them on the flanks with a shield and QH. The enemy generally will rush them, then the guy gets out his sword and starts swinging away a 2 or 3 guys a turn. The spear bro's migrate towards the middle, which has the advantage of splitting the enemy (they generally will not attack spears head on unless its undead). A split enemy is a dead enemy, because late game your bro's outperform almost every enemy except the highest tier of enemy.
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Sep 17, 2018 10:56
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I've noticed many players get fixated on a single perk and pick it for all their bros. I myself do it with pathfinder, but there also people who always pick student, bags & belts, recover etc. I'm wondering if that's really the best way to go, because for instance I rarely pick Steel Brow or any of those other perks and can't say I've had difficulties because of that. Pathfinder is also really situational and now I feel like I can do without it.
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Sep 17, 2018 20:41
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Steel Brow is my sacrifice to keep my archnemesis, rear end in a top hat With A Crossbow Who Rolls a 10, away.
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Sep 17, 2018 20:46
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fspades posted:Pathfinder is also really situational and now I feel like I can do without it. I wouldn't say it's terribly situational, since it will always cut fatigue costs of moving in half, even if you're not in difficult terrain. It's still not something I pick for *everyone*, but it's a good perk. Personally I'm horribly addicted to picking Gifted, because my lizard brain wants numbers to be bigger.
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Sep 17, 2018 21:06
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I hate having to make a slow march to (or away from) an opponent, especially in the woods or snow, so for me Pathfinder is savior of my sanity. Not really necessary for my archers, maybe, but anyone who is going to need to push up into a group it's great for. I've started working Recover into a lot of my builds since wearing such heavy armor as you get late game really cuts into fatigue scores. I've never really found a need for Steel Brow, and I still haven't found a need for Bags and Belts--usually two slots is enough for me anyway. Usually a dagger and net or a spare quiver and a two-tile weapon suffices.
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Sep 17, 2018 22:17
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fspades posted:I've noticed many players get fixated on a single perk and pick it for all their bros. I myself do it with pathfinder, but there also people who always pick student, bags & belts, recover etc. I'm wondering if that's really the best way to go, because for instance I rarely pick Steel Brow or any of those other perks and can't say I've had difficulties because of that. Pathfinder is also really situational and now I feel like I can do without it. For me at least, it's much, much easier to make "bro templates" than it is to evaluate each bro individually and make a custom-crafted build. The fewer decisions I have to make the better. It's not so much about individually optimizing each bro as about streamlining the level-up process as a whole. If I know everyone gets Pathfinder then that's two minutes of thinking time saved per Bro. edit: also a lot of it comes down to playstyle. If you always reload bro deaths Student is great. If you never reload then yeah get Steel Brow. etc. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Sep 17, 2018 |
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Sep 17, 2018 22:24
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Half the challenge going into the midgame is not getting randomly OTKO'd by infuriatingly accurate Brigand Marksmen. Steel Brow doesn't completely remove that possibility, but it sure makes it a lot less common.
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Sep 17, 2018 22:34
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Steel Brow is 100% required on endgame 2hers because otherwise you take a single crossbow bolt to the face and you're crippled. Pathfinder is my favourite perk I can never find space for.
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Sep 17, 2018 22:53
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Does the list of available recruits for a settlement ever change without recruiting everyone there?
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Sep 17, 2018 23:21
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NeurosisHead posted:Does the list of available recruits for a settlement ever change without recruiting everyone there? Yeah, although from what I remember it doesn't change at once. But potential recruits will eventually be rotated out for new ones.
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Sep 17, 2018 23:49
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  It disappeared before I could gather the money for it.  Really wish I hadn't splurged on that unique helmet just a couple days earlier.
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Sep 18, 2018 05:27
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Yeah, steel brow has become a requirement for me simply because i had a fight start in the noble war. Turn 2, enemy crossbowdude pretty much one shots a 2h dude. Next crossbowdude does the same to a different one. Third crossbowdude finishes one of them off. Entirely crippled my ability to fight. Now if they get hit they shrug it off, seems worth it.
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Sep 18, 2018 11:45
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Reading through Fritz/REST IN PISS' guide, and I gotta say his/her stat requirements for a given role are a bit insane. Like, fatigue 90+ for a plate wearer after armour? I've clocked in over 1000 hours of gameplay, and I've never landed those kinds of stats. Are the RNG just better to other people, or am I about to learn something and shout gently caress a lot?
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Sep 18, 2018 11:50
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I think they're assuming 3 stars on really high base stats, ie. on a perfect recruit for the role, because they also mention hitting 100 ranged skill around lvl 8 or 9. In comparison my 3 star archer who picked ranged skill every level is only like 95 at lvl 13.
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Sep 18, 2018 12:11
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They also talk a lot about veteran levels so it's possible some of those numbers are for guys at like level 40.
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Sep 18, 2018 12:18
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Yeah, some of the guides I've tried to read have been people using perfectly rolled veteran level 20 characters as examples of "good recruit", which is cool, but kinda useless for normal play. FilthyRobot seemed to have reasonable numbers in his guides when I looked through them, at least.
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Sep 18, 2018 12:20
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Wafflecopper posted:hitting 100 ranged skill around lvl 8 or 9 When I was getting the data for my Steam guide, the highest base Ranged Skill I ever found was 59, and that only on Hunters. I haven't found anyone get higher than that since. I've seen people say that they found a Hunter with 60 base, though. So let's assume that's possible. Even with 60 base you'd need nothing but +5 on all levels to get to 100 by level 9, so 3 stars and perfect rolls all the way. It's bullshit.
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Sep 18, 2018 12:39
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Yeah, a lot of people when they write guides don't actually go through and cross check against actual game numbers, they just go by their memory of the best they've seen, or they neglect to mention that they've reload-scouted 10,000 bros to get those values, etc. It's been a while since I played this game actively so I don't remember exact good/bad values but I remember when I wrote my guide, that section -- target stats for bros -- got a lot of rewrites and revisions as I cross checked the advice in other guides against what was actually possible in-game. (side note, this is why I scorn youtube guides: you cannot do enough edits in a video to make sure you're being accurate). From what I recall "good" starting ranged skill is 45+ or so with star(s). That's why I recommended the RestinPiss guide for its formations, not its stat recommendations! :P For stat recommendations I still think I'm right : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=902880552 Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Sep 18, 2018 |
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Sep 18, 2018 12:52
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Don't be afraid to save and reload when you're still learning the game. No shame. I have serious problems with a guide that recommends to off 2-3 characters per raider fight.
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Sep 18, 2018 12:52
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's why I recommended the RestinPiss guide for its formations, not its stat recommendations! :P Fair
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Sep 18, 2018 12:55
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Fat Samurai posted:I have serious problems with a guide that recommends to off 2-3 characters per raider fight. It's weird but it's something I've noticed a lot of the most respected, well-written guides for this game suggest. i'm not a fan of the strategy either personally, it seems like more of an iron man thing. But yeah, its raider advice isn't nearly as good as its orc/ ancient undead advice, that's a good point -- I hadn't read that portion of it because who needs a guide for fighting raiders?. I've never found complex tactics particularly necessary for raiders as long as you're using flails and using terrain well and have ranged superiority so they charge your line.
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Sep 18, 2018 12:59
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The real key with raiders is prioritizing which ones to take out, since their weapon and gear quality varies so wildly, and getting a couple quick kills/morale breaks to waver or even shatter the rest of their line.
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Sep 18, 2018 13:10
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Yeah I found a lot of that guide interesting and some of the things he says completely contradict how I build bros which I found quite interesting. Then he got to raiders and was like "raiders will wreck you, sacrifice two bros to let the rest live" but in my experience bandits are by far the easiest enemies and a mid- or late-game company can reliably demolish raider groups twice its size while barely taking any damage, let alone anyone dying, without any tactics whatsoever, just holding position until your archers snipe enough of their archers that they charge you and then killing raiders as they reach your line.
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Sep 18, 2018 13:33
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I had a look at the guide and have to say... what are Raiders? Some rare viking faction? Or does he mean.. mid-tier Bandits?
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Sep 18, 2018 14:08
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That's exactly what he means.
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Sep 18, 2018 14:42
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Tylana posted:I had a look at the guide and have to say... what are Raiders? Some rare viking faction? Or does he mean.. mid-tier Bandits? Mid-tier bandit's are called Bandit Raiders in game, differentiating them from the sack wearing scub Bandit Thugs.
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Sep 18, 2018 14:45
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It really does seem like all the guides are for people who reload scout everything or people who severely struggle. There's no "mid tier" competent guide, which is strange. Like i'm pretty competent at getting to the end game, but gently caress off if i'm realistically taking on the black monolith without kiting an army there or some poo poo.
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Sep 18, 2018 14:47
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Tylana posted:I had a look at the guide and have to say... what are Raiders? Some rare viking faction? Or does he mean.. mid-tier Bandits? This made me imagine a DLC focused on water and ships, which would add water and rivers to tilesets, add a coastal/beach tileset that you would use for attacking the hideouts of the new pirate/viking faction, make it so your fast travel ships could be raided on a new ship tileset that would have maps with a restricted size (but also making it so you could take escort missions for trade fleets, like caravans but faster), and adding a new endgame crisis where the isolated bands of pirates/vikings band together and invade from the sea. You could also have new bros in settlements with harbors, who would be sailors with a chance of coming with one-eye and eyepatches.
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Sep 18, 2018 14:54
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When I look at my obituaries, I always see a lot of deaths to Raiders. I don't know what difficulty everybody here is on, but on Expert you can run into them as soon as you take a contract to catch some thieves. There will only be a handful and they won't have T3 flails or pikes yet, but seeing something like two Raiders in decent armor with hooked blades is gonna make me eye that white flag button. And once Raiders unlock their best equipment and Marksmen join their ranks I find that I do actually need to use careful positioning in a lot of those fights. The guide is still weird, though. He suggests using a Duelist on the flank against them and...Duelist is a late game perk. By the time I have even one bro with the stats and perks to fill that role I'm far beyond giving a poo poo about Raiders. At that point I'm fighting them to hunt Leaders and Hedge Knights.
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Sep 18, 2018 15:15
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Marksmen are definitely an issue. I play on easier difficulties so maybe that stops them from tipping into really dangerous at the points you meet them.
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Sep 18, 2018 15:33
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The main thing for Marksmen is that they always have a small chance of hitting who they're aiming at, yes, but the ranged scatter rules actually give ranged characters more than one to-hit roll, it feels like. So they shoot at your shield wall guy, miss, and then by whatever arcane scatter rules exist they get to attack roll against the pikeman standing behind him, and then when they hit they have crossbow mastery so they do a bunch of HP damage, especially if they hit the head. I think the scatter rules give Ranged a feeling of having much more 'bullshit' hit potential. Also the ranged AI hates you and will do everything it can to kill or cripple whoever it has the best odds of killing or crippling. Ranged can focus stuff down much more easily than melee since it doesn't have to maneuver into a fight or manage zones of control; it's the same reason your Ranged Bros are such shitwreckers against the enemy, after all. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Sep 18, 2018 |
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Sep 18, 2018 15:36
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Sometimes the bullshit works both ways. I had a rookie hunter accidentally kill two brigand marksmen in his first battle. They weren't even in range, I was having him aim at raider polearm wielders in their front row, but the shots missed and scattered right into those marksmen's noggins.
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Sep 18, 2018 16:19
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