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Based on this, I'm guessing that the main goal from here on out is for the order to get Redcloak to listen to them. That seems like it would be challenging under the best of circumstances.
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Sep 22, 2018 18:59
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Alchenar posted:The Dark One's whole plan is to play ball with the other gods in the re-ordering of the current world or the remaking of the next one. He explicitly wants to use the threat of the Snarl as a negotiating tactic to get in at the table. Thor rocking up and saying "hey the threat of the Snarl means we want you at the table" would literally short-cut his plan to instant success. That's his plan as revealed to Redcloak, but I am less than convinced that's it in truth. Just as Redcloak is hiding details from Xykon, I expect TDO is hiding things from Redcloak. Consider, it's in every gods interest for there to be a fourth pantheon. Why wouldn't they have invited TDO to the table immediately? What does Thor know that he doesn't want to let the world end and let TDO just join in the next one? Either TDO isn't yet established enough to survive the worlds end, or TDO has motivations beyond what we've been shown which give Thor hesitation. Then again, I might be entirely off base here. I guess we'll learn soon enough.
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Sep 22, 2018 19:05
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I would imagine their plan is not necessarily to get Redcloak to listen, but to get the Dark One to listen. I presume Durkon can still cast Summon Proxy, and if he can Redcloak certainly can as well. That way the Dark One and Thor can have it out man-to-man. There are probably all sorts of protocols and crap which is why Godsmoots need to happen with their clerics presiding and such, I don't know, there's gotta be some reason why the Gods can't just meet up somewhere and hash it out together.
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Sep 22, 2018 19:21
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I mean, the rules on how gods interact without mortal proxies haven't really been established. In the backstory given by the Dark One, the gods are free to talk to each other and a handful of them decided to let him in on the Snarl story even though most were opposed to acknowledging him as a god. But they also had the Godsmoot instead of just having the vote in person, and I assume that there's a reason for that beyond having a way to convey story to the readers.
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Sep 22, 2018 19:24
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The gods might also not be in agreement on the whole "The Dark One is the messiah" thing. Thor might be off-reservation with this idea, even.
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Sep 22, 2018 19:39
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Schwarzwald posted:That's his plan as revealed to Redcloak, but I am less than convinced that's it in truth. Just as Redcloak is hiding details from Xykon, I expect TDO is hiding things from Redcloak. The last time TDO showed up at a meeting to try and work with people to make a difference he was killed. He doesn't want to make the mistake again of going into negotiations without having his own assassin there to protect him. At least, that is what he told Redcloak.
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Sep 22, 2018 19:57
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TDO also has every reason to HATE all the other gods and might not be willing to approach then again without a big gun to hold to their heads.
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Sep 22, 2018 20:12
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Did we ever see gods from different pantheons interacting with each other directly outside of the Snarl origin story? It could be that they can talk one-on-one intra-pantheon, but need stuff like the Godsmoot when inter-pantheon matters arise to prevent accidental petty bicker creation and such. Of course, even the Godsmoot kept the three pantheon congregations strictly separate from each other. One of the biggest issues I see is how to talk to Redcloak about this frankly (aside from the world being destroyed probably being in TDO's favor) with Xykon hanging around, given Red has been extremely careful about what information he talks about The Plan when he knows Xykon can hear it. Xykon may for the moment prefer the world not destroyed, sure... but he also has his own personal astral plane bugout bunker. From his point-of-view, it's not like it's something he absolutely needs to prevent happening if he wants to continue to survive.
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Sep 22, 2018 21:32
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We saw a cutaway to some argument after Thor overstepped himself in eastern God territory for durkon.
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Sep 22, 2018 22:36
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We see Thor and Odin getting turned away at the astral border between the North and South by Tiger of the Twelve Gods when Durkon mentions Thor isn't answering his prayers for extra speed: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html
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Sep 22, 2018 22:38
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Schwarzwald posted:That's his plan as revealed to Redcloak, but I am less than convinced that's it in truth. Just as Redcloak is hiding details from Xykon, I expect TDO is hiding things from Redcloak. If you've read Start of Darkness, Redcloak putting on the mantle of The Dark One is portrayed as a full blown moment-of-direct-enlightenment-from-God, with 'the plan' being pushed forcefully to the top of Redcloak's agenda. Redcloak knows the plan possibly involves his complete annihilation and he's totally fine with it, there's no point to hide anything from him and there's nothing suggesting it's that sort of relationship. In fact, given The Dark One has given a full briefing on the Snarl to his high priest, he's been more honest than any other god to his followers. I also just think that in storytelling terms it's important that we the readers have been completely aware of Redcloak's motivations for absolutely ages, because it sets up the tension between Redcloak and Xykon and also clues us in that there may be a twist ending where we don't know which way Redcloak will go till quite late. Any change in the relationship between Redcloak and TDO would break all the things that have been set up.
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Sep 22, 2018 22:58
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Also from SoD: the gods have an agreement to work poo poo out between each other, or at least between pantheons, exclusively by clerics. Cause last time they argued directly them made the Snarl.
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Sep 22, 2018 23:10
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Interesting...
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Sep 22, 2018 23:11
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share with the class?
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Sep 23, 2018 01:10
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I'm assuming Rand is referring to the panel after Redcloak channels negative energy at Soon's ghost. Soon's blue aura changes to a grey or washed out purple color temporarily. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's not a secret foreshadowing thing.
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Sep 23, 2018 01:54
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Mylan posted:I'm assuming Rand is referring to the panel after Redcloak channels negative energy at Soon's ghost. Soon's blue aura changes to a grey or washed out purple color temporarily. Well, maybe, but Redcloak specifically calls it out as unusual, and it's not like we didn't know what that magic was supposed to do, and it doesn't seem to ever have any other payoff.
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Sep 23, 2018 02:01
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Did you read the rest of the strip? Three panels later he explicitly says WHY it was interesting. Popping the lesser "ghosts" stuns Soon.
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Sep 23, 2018 02:10
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Yeah, but that's okay. It wouldn't be the first time that we've been given an explanation only for it to be subverted at another date.
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Sep 23, 2018 02:21
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What are some other times? Cause I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but that's coming across kinda like "the explanation is further proof that it's a loose end" and that's more than a little conspiracy theoretical.
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Sep 23, 2018 09:54
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My Lovely Horse posted:What are some other times? Cause I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but that's coming across kinda like "the explanation is further proof that it's a loose end" and that's more than a little conspiracy theoretical. yeah, i'm not seeing there being anything more here
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Sep 23, 2018 14:17
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No, I'm not saying lack of proof is proof. I mean that the scene is drawn and paced ambiguously enough that this new revelation about color as a fabric of reality could add a new interpretation. You could say that the Red Mantle's direct tap to the Dark One's color gave Red Cloak a +2 when dealing with the "quiddity" of other gods. There's no reason to think Red Cloak is lying or wrong when he gives the explanation on how Soon was stunned, but it is just an educated guess from his character. My point is that there is room for Rich to recon it without it really breaking anything. (I don't know D&D, I am just here for the story and jokes.) But if you want examples of what I mean, I would compare it to when Eugene first haunts Roy and mentions that he's shacking up with another oathspirit (although Roy doesn't know what that is at the time.) Roy asks about his mom and Eugene replies something along the lines of, "It was very clear when we got married, 'til death do us part." It's obviously written before Rich thought out the whole Oathspirit thing, but the revelations that he was kept out of the afterlife away from his family AND his family kinda gave up on him because he is an obnoxious rear end in a top hat change the meaning of the scene without breaking it. Instead of seeming like an rear end in a top hat who ditched his wife as soon as he could, he is just putting on false bravado to his son in an attempt to convince them both that he chose this situation. But I understand if that comparison doesn't do it for you. My example is about characters and their motivations while the original situation is about cold, hard D&D rules. Which, again, I don't know poo poo about. On a tangential note, there are probably ways that the rift above Gobbotopia (Rip Azure City) has reacted to The Mantle's presence as it is a creation made of the fifth color. This revelation changes a lot to how the events of story could be interpreted. Earnestly fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 14:34
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I think it's kind of dumb to go back and question literally every time something had a random glowy bit in it as possibly being some surprise twist buried in a single panel hundreds of pages back. Especially since this is a comic where magic exists and there's going to be a lot of random glowy bits.
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Sep 23, 2018 15:47
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AnoHito posted:I think it's kind of dumb to go back and question literally every time something had a random glowy bit in it as possibly being some surprise twist buried in a single panel hundreds of pages back. Especially since this is a comic where magic exists and there's going to be a lot of random glowy bits. Yeah, I say again, if it had mattered enough to plan ahead that much for, redcloak's own spells would be purple, not red
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Sep 23, 2018 16:41
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It definitely seems like only the gods themselves have this kind of quiddity, and the rest of the spellcasting glows is more rooted in the kind of magic they're casting or the person casting it. The mortals are supposed to be entirely independent of the gods, after all. As a side note, I do love Rich's character design on the gods.
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Sep 23, 2018 16:50
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AnoHito posted:I think it's kind of dumb to go back and question literally every time something had a random glowy bit in it as possibly being some surprise twist buried in a single panel hundreds of pages back. Especially since this is a comic where magic exists and there's going to be a lot of random glowy bits. Behold, the key to saving the universe.
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Sep 23, 2018 17:19
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ultrafilter posted:Based on this, I'm guessing that the main goal from here on out is for the order to get Redcloak to listen to them. That seems like it would be challenging under the best of circumstances. That seems like it would put them at odds with Hinjo and his gang. Should be interesting.
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Sep 23, 2018 18:33
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Teenage me is so fuckin' excited for Redcloak right now.
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Sep 23, 2018 19:20
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HisMajestyBOB posted:That seems like it would put them at odds with Hinjo and his gang. Should be interesting. And the IFCC, and whatever's left over from Tarquin's gang, and the priests of any god who hates the Dark One. Interesting indeed.
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Sep 23, 2018 19:28
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Earnestly posted:I mean that the scene is drawn and paced ambiguously enough that this new revelation about color as a fabric of reality could add a new interpretation. Hell, as long as we're applying this colour thing to all ~1200 pages so far, let's do one that had people talking for a good while: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html Was this a huge loose end? You bet! Did it get resolved? Sure did, we found out it was Zz'dtri, his magic has the same colour. Is it now plausible that Zz'dtri might turn out to have been some kind of agent of the Eastern Pantheon who are somehow still alive? I guess, cause Rich can retcon whatever he wants. Is it likely? Probably not, because: would it add something to the story? Zz'dtri is dead, if the Eastern Gods are still alive, there are more interesting ways to reveal that, so would it? You tell me.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:17
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Zz'dtri's magic color is green because V's is pink. It's V's complementary color, since, y'know, Z was an evil opposite.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:31
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Ugh. I just noticed that the map clearly says "Sandsedge," and Roy says "Sansedge." 
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Sep 24, 2018 01:25
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XkyRauh posted:Ugh. I just noticed that the map clearly says "Sandsedge," and Roy says "Sansedge." People misread things all the time. Roy probably just had trouble with the font.
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Sep 24, 2018 03:22
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Roy is a fan of Undertale, clearly.
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Sep 24, 2018 03:37
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Zz'dtri's magic color is green because V's is pink. It's V's complementary color, since, y'know, Z was an evil opposite. But it does remind me of another question and good old Occam's Razor: is there a more obvious explanation?
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Sep 24, 2018 07:06
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My Lovely Horse posted:I never actually picked up on that, believe it or not. Yes the individual magical effect exist to distinguish characters and their actions. The only time we've seen related beings with the same aura are the gods which has now been explained to be more.
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Sep 24, 2018 12:51
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I'm kinda starting to feel I'm not coming across right here: I'm not seriously arguing the scrying sensor is actual foreshadowing of Western divine presence in that scene, just that if you wanted to apply the recent revelations to look for foreshadowing anywhere in the story so far, you'd have a much stronger point doing it there rather than in the scene with Soon's ghost that kicked all this off.  And also that Occam's razor is useful, because it gives you a much better reason why Zz'dtri's magic is green.
My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 13:05
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I mean, if you want to attribute hidden character traits to magic auras I'd love to hear your analysis of the connection between Malack and Xykon, Redcloak and Durkula, or, hell, the secret magic bond shared by Elan, Tsukiko's divine spells, Celia and *checks notes* Roy's ghost, but not his sword magic.
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Sep 24, 2018 13:05
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Boy I bet Rich is glad he tied it all to colour so explicitly! 
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Sep 24, 2018 13:10
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I bet the gitp boards are non stop color speculation now, worse than us
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Sep 24, 2018 13:41
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Now we're gonna need a comic "I dinnae themer these colors when I was seeing spellcastn!" Thor: Of course, only gods or those who have been told by a good can perceive them this way
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Sep 24, 2018 13:47
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