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Doorknob Slobber posted:that seems hard. You big time lawyers made fun of me for my basic knowledge of finding ways to take care of my own legal poo poo, but thats more than 99% of people can do and even if you could hire a lawyer for any of that poo poo it would probably be prohibitively expensive. When I was searching for a lawyer to help me get money from an uninsured driver who hit my car I ended up doing it mainly by myself and a little help from this thread and I ended up getting 10k which was 4k more than we spent on the car. No attorney would even actually help me because 'there was no guarantee we'd get any money'. My main interest in law would be helping myself and other people in situations like that where they can't find help anywhere else, not necessarily being some big shot lawyer making crisp hundred dollar bills every few minutes. Thats also why I said the end-game for me isn't necessarily being a lawyer, but learning more about law. If practicing for the LSAT (which has no law content) sounds hard, why are you even contemplating the Rube Goldberg admission to the bar?
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Sep 21, 2018 23:29
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This is how sovereign citizens begin.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:32
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Doorknob Slobber posted:that seems hard. You big time lawyers made fun of me for my basic knowledge of finding ways to take care of my own legal poo poo, but thats more than 99% of people can do and even if you could hire a lawyer for any of that poo poo it would probably be prohibitively expensive. When I was searching for a lawyer to help me get money from an uninsured driver who hit my car I ended up doing it mainly by myself and a little help from this thread and I ended up getting 10k which was 4k more than we spent on the car. No attorney would even actually help me because 'there was no guarantee we'd get any money'. My main interest in law would be helping myself and other people in situations like that where they can't find help anywhere else, not necessarily being some big shot lawyer making crisp hundred dollar bills every few minutes. Thats also why I said the end-game for me isn't necessarily being a lawyer, but learning more about law. To be totally fair and equanimous to blarzgh, you are an idiot. Sounds like what you really want to do is practice law without a license based on gut feeling and gumption in lieu of law school and a bar exam. I'm sure you have what it takes, so go right at it but as a helpful tip just as you're beginning out: Admitting publicly that you wish to practice law without a license is not the coolest of moves, despite appearances. Thankfully, you have an anecdote about the time where you didn't lose horribly in court for some reason that I'm sure is related to your wonderful legal acumen and go-getter attitude. I'm sure this will be fine. Please let us all know how you get along.
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Sep 22, 2018 00:08
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Thread relevant: https://twitter.com/ATLBlackStar/status/1043537945138024449
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Sep 22, 2018 18:31
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The question is really if it qualifies as aggravated witchcraft.
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Sep 22, 2018 19:09
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Doorknob Slobber posted:Are you sure this isn't different per state? Everything I've read and experienced essentially says the only part of your statement that is true is 'argue in court'. I have 3 paralegals. One is as good as an attorney 90% of the time. That 10% would result in her losing every case. One is basically catatonic and can barely title documents or download them. But she will make every goddamn phone call I need and get me answers. One can put together basic discovery packets based off templates, but refuses to exercise any independent thought. I've known other attorneys who fit all 3 templates too. Here is the big problem: we are a guild. We prevent you from doing anything that the guild has ownership of. We do that to protect our guild members. We're wildly more successful than the AMA in doing that. We will smack down almost any attempt to horn in on our territory without first engaging in the rituals of lsat, law school, bar exam. Here's your problem: you think everyone is dumb except you. One of the reasons we don't let people practice law randomly is because you can really gently caress up someone's life. One of the reasons I supervise my extremely competent paralegal is because she could ruin one of my cases and gently caress up someone's life. Represent yourself all you want. But don't think you can touch other people's poo poo because you know just enough to ruin lives, including your own.
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Sep 22, 2018 20:51
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Common law is meant to be practiced by the common man though and the ABA has perverted that.
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Sep 22, 2018 21:02
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Represent yourself all you want. But don't think you can touch other people's poo poo because you know just enough to ruin lives, including your own. This is arguably just as true of many other professions that don't have any legally required credentials. The number of people who tell me "I was in the military for an entire 4 years so I know everything about protecting [important civilian thing]" is goddamned terrifying. I'm not saying more people should be allowed to practice law, but I am saying unqualified idiots run everything else and we miraculously don't live in a smoking crater so hey, why not?
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Sep 22, 2018 21:10
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Except if a fake lawyer tells you to do something, you may more easily loss your criminal case and wind up in jail, get evicted, lose child possession or support, or wind up cursed by the ancient witch Beeyounsay.
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Sep 22, 2018 21:18
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There are so many fake lawyers in jail right now. The saga of Anthony Williams, Private Attorney General is a fascinating one. I would totally watch Law and Order: SovCit Edition  though.
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Sep 22, 2018 22:01
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AlbieQuirky posted:There are so many fake lawyers in jail right now. The saga of Anthony Williams, Private Attorney General is a fascinating one. i think Doorknob Slobber should give it a shot, if he thinks he's half as good at making awesome legal documents as the Washitaw Nation.
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Sep 22, 2018 22:20
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Uh, yeah. What I said about paralegals can write briefs, yeah you can learn to write legal arguments and even string enough of them together to make a whole document worth filing. After many years of immersion in a heavy litigation practice. That’s a small of what lawyers do. If you’re a litigator, you probably want to keep your matter out of court. Even if you master that you’d still lack context or understanding why and when to do everything else that legal representation requires. Hence the guild and its rituals. No supervising lawyer is going to mentor you to that extent because it’s not worth their time and even if they did, you couldn’t be a lawyer from that alone.
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Sep 22, 2018 22:51
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Except if a fake lawyer tells you to do something, you may more easily loss your criminal case and wind up in jail, get evicted, lose child possession or support, or wind up cursed by the ancient witch Beeyounsay. However, it is extremely unlikely to get killed by listening to a fake lawyer. A fake electrician, however....
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Sep 23, 2018 00:10
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Electricians in Texas have a protective guild. There are even laws that prohibit job electricians from doing electrical work except on their own homes. Same for plumbers, massage....
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Sep 23, 2018 00:45
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KillHour posted:However, it is extremely unlikely to get killed by listening to a fake lawyer. A fake electrician, however.... You're talking to a lawyer in Texas, so actually worst case is the government kills you.
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Sep 23, 2018 00:47
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Electricians in Texas have a protective guild. There are even laws that prohibit job electricians from doing electrical work except on their own homes. This is true. My point was, as you mentioned, it's a lot harder to get into the lawyers' guild than just about any other. This is less because being a lawyer requires more knowledge than being an electrician or civil engineer or whatever and more because the people who write the laws regarding joining said guild have a vested interest in limiting membership. I'm not qualified to do your job, but you're no more qualified to do mine. nm posted:You're talking to a lawyer in Texas, so actually worst case is the government kills you. This reason, among others, is why I try to avoid Texas as much as possible. KillHour fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 00:59
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Electricians in Texas have a protective guild. There are even laws that prohibit job electricians from doing electrical work except on their own homes. Aaand, the liberals ruin another state with oppressive regulation.
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Sep 23, 2018 01:33
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I never said I was qualified to do anyone else's job? I said you shouldn't play at fields as a layman without getting the proper training. The guilds exist in part to restrict supply, in part to protect the public.
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Sep 23, 2018 02:24
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I'm mostly just bitter that my industry is full of 'ex special-ops' (read: did a single tour in Iraq, saw no action and went straight into consulting) that think the best way to protect critical infrastructure from terrorism is to "put up dummy cameras and paint 'security' on the side of maintenance vehicles so they think we have a lot of guards." I'm not making that up and it's a miracle we haven't had anything big blow up in the last 17 years. But all are troops! need jobs, even if they aren't qualified to do anything except iron shirts and suck up to brass. Edit: After thinking about this more, if paralegals are your equivalent to that, they probably shouldn't be allowed around pens - just in case they manage to stab their own eye out. KillHour fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 03:31
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News flash: being a lawyer is hard. Becoming and staying a lawyer is correspondingly hard as well.
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Sep 23, 2018 05:39
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blarzgh posted:News flash: being a lawyer is hard. Becoming and staying a lawyer is correspondingly hard as well. The pay is poo poo, too. This is the part most people don’t seem to get.
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Sep 23, 2018 13:46
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Unless you're top x% or whatever. But the hours aren't great.
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Sep 23, 2018 14:17
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KillHour posted:This is true. My point was, as you mentioned, it's a lot harder to get into the lawyers' guild than just about any other. This is less because being a lawyer requires more knowledge than being an electrician or civil engineer or whatever and more because the people who write the laws regarding joining said guild have a vested interest in limiting membership. I'm not qualified to do your job, but you're no more qualified to do mine. Practising as a professional civil engineer in most western countries, including most US jurisdictions requires a license that you only get with an appropriate degree, a number of years of qualifying work under a supervising engineer (typically four years), testing and experience review. So, pretty comparable.
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Sep 23, 2018 14:20
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Look, everyone needs to stop comparing dick sizes about which job is harder. I was a roofer, in Texas, during summer, and that poo poo is "harder" than being a lawyer but every job, every life is different. One of the things every self-aware lawyer knows or finds out is that many people, including people who "want to go to law school" think is that "being a lawyer" is a ticket to some kind of prestige or inside knowledge and it's really not. All it really does is teach you that everything is consequences and all people are poo poo, so we make fun of the people who won't or haven't yet learned that lesson.
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Sep 23, 2018 20:12
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The best thing you learn in law school is the magic words and grammar we use to keep lay people do- Nevermind
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Sep 23, 2018 21:08
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Yeah, in light of the sovereign citizen themed direction this conversation went in I feel I should clarify that when I saidHieronymous Alloy posted:In my experience the only significant difference between an attorney and a paralegal is how much money their respective parents had to pay for schooling. What I was getting at is that the differences between paralegals and lawyers (training, analytical skills, ability to legally practise law, etc.) usually derive from differences in economic opportunity rather than differences in innate talent or brainpower. Some people get the chance to go to law school, others don't.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:16
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God drat nothing annoys me like people telling other people they don't deserve to be proud of their hard work and sacrifice.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:32
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blarzgh posted:hard work I thought you were a government lawyer
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Sep 23, 2018 22:01
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You're thinking of HDD, lol
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Sep 23, 2018 22:37
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See, I'm an actual bootstraps story. My parents were literal drug dealers and sex abusers. I went on my own at 18 and put myself through undergrad, grad, and law school (loans also obviously). I did okay in law school at a regional TTT. And I recognize that a lot of how I got to where I am was luck (cops never picking me up for dui when I was a teen), and privilege (cops never arresting me when I was in the cut). I'm smart, but I don't work really hard and I got lucky.
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Sep 23, 2018 23:50
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blarzgh posted:You're thinking of HDD, lol No I'm confusing you with the Sacramento one, I forgot you were a Texas lawgoon
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Sep 24, 2018 00:33
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I was at a Fancy Store today and the saleswoman offered to do a credit check to see what my "buying power" would be. I asked if it was a soft or hard credit check and she said she didn't know. As I was filling out the form on her iDevice and scrolled down, I saw a photo of a store credit card and a prompt for my social security number. I stopped right there and said I wasn't signing up for a credit card, and that we could talk about money if I decided I was buying something there. Which at this point I obviously wasn't. I feel like she was trying to trick me into signing up for the credit card. Is this illegal? "Hey it's just a credit check, just kidding, you'll get your credit card in the mail in 3-5 business days!" This is in New York by the way.
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Sep 24, 2018 03:10
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LifeLynx posted:I was at a Fancy Store today and the saleswoman offered to do a credit check to see what my "buying power" would be. I asked if it was a soft or hard credit check and she said she didn't know. As I was filling out the form on her iDevice and scrolled down, I saw a photo of a store credit card and a prompt for my social security number. I stopped right there and said I wasn't signing up for a credit card, and that we could talk about money if I decided I was buying something there. Which at this point I obviously wasn't. I feel like she was trying to trick me into signing up for the credit card. Is this illegal? "Hey it's just a credit check, just kidding, you'll get your credit card in the mail in 3-5 business days!" This is in New York by the way. She gave you a document that said you were signing up for a credit card. Where do you see something being illegal there?
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Sep 24, 2018 03:22
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Does it rhyme with cod?
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Sep 24, 2018 03:27
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I feel like explicitly telling someone a form they're being asked to fill out is one thing when it's actually a different thing SHOULD be illegal, but lol USA so it probably isn't.
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Sep 24, 2018 03:33
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FrozenVent posted:She gave you a document that said you were signing up for a credit card. Just because I was smart enough to read it doesn't mean everyone is, and I guess that's my problem - I have no idea if the law assumes people are smart enough to read, or if someone can just say it's for a simple credit check, fill out the first page of the form for me (she had my name and basic contact info because I've been there before) and turn the screen to me to fill out the rest. The only clue I had was the image of the credit card. I assume closer to the submit button it would have given more detail about the credit card or whatever, but like I said - does it matter if people are too dumb to read, if they were filling out the form under the pretense that it was just a credit check? Either way I'm not shopping there again, just wanted to know how to word my email to the manager telling me to take my name and number off their "contact about a sale" list because it's the last straw in the things that rubbed me the wrong way about this saleswoman.
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Sep 24, 2018 03:35
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Was this your first experience shopping in a large store? Because I decline credit cards and similar offer on the daily. I’m not sure what you expect the manager to do when you complain that her employee did her job as she’s been ordered to.
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Sep 24, 2018 03:47
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Maybe make her switch to shilling for the stupid cards directly instead of literally lying to people about what they're signing
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Sep 24, 2018 03:51
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Well she was going to run a credit check on you and see how much credit they’d be willing to give you, that’s what she told you?
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Sep 24, 2018 03:54
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FrozenVent posted:Was this your first experience shopping in a large store? Because I decline credit cards and similar offer on the daily. Yes but those are clearly labeled and I'm asked "would you like to sign up for our store credit card?" and I say "no thanks, I can afford to pay $60 for that Switch game straight cash without spreading it out over six months with 26% interest". Basically what I want is: Javid posted:Maybe make her switch to shilling for the stupid cards directly instead of literally lying to people about what they're signing But I don't want to start a derail over the ethics of in-store credit cards, I'm sorry.  I just had a mild curiosity over if that kind of lying was illegal. But if it's just lovely business practices and there are no laws directly against it because USA then I guess it's really a topic for another thread.
LifeLynx fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 04:10
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