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mandatory lesbian posted:Jivjov I agree that the Disney star wars have been good but do you not see how disgustingly cynical this post is When you consider that the same marketing department is backing the MCU, it becomes more like stating a factual observation. Bonaventure posted:Thanks for reinforcing my decision not to engage with anything in this thread. Take a moment to find an online copy of A Modest Proposal and (re)read it. Satire presents itself completely straight-faced; a literal reading of the text would suggest that Swift genuinely thought that allowing the Irish to sell their infant children as a cannibalistic commodity would be a wonderful solution to poverty. It's also still pretty relevant and funny. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 20:55
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The consistent misreading of that post I made would be enough to make me worried that I am bad at getting across the intended meaning of my words, but thankfully with the Birth of the Reader, I can remain confident that I am not a poor writer and instead you are all poor readers.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:33
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Bonaventure posted:The consistent misreading of that post I made would be enough to make me worried that I am bad at getting across the intended meaning of my words, but thankfully with the Birth of the Reader, I can remain confident that I am not a poor writer and instead you are all poor readers. you went to your fainting couch when I suggested that satire comes from the reader; what did we misunderstand?
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Sep 23, 2018 21:38
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Waffles Inc. posted:you went to your fainting couch when I suggested that satire comes from the reader; what did we misunderstand? I asked SMG an honest question about his approach to theory out of sincere curiosity and here comes his hangers-on to fuckin' own me about being "illiterate," wowza! who could've seen it coming? Like, look at the way people are responding to Cnut's posts, "throw your computer out in despair" and whatnot. This thread is toxic. Since I was genuinely curious about SMG's ideas about satire I'm sticking around for his answer but don't worry I'll be gone after that and you can go back to posting "actually OP" at jivjov.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:44
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Bonaventure posted:Did you mean for The Lord of The Swastika to be considered as a discrete work divorced from the satirical framing of The Iron Dream, or do you mean that The Iron Dream is itself a work that promotes fascism? No.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:46
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I think what the author meant here is "yes".
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Sep 23, 2018 21:47
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Bonaventure posted:Since I was genuinely curious about SMG's ideas about satire I'm sticking around for his answer but don't worry I'll be gone after that and you can go back to posting "actually OP" at jivjov. your sanctimonious martyr act is incredibly bizarre
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Sep 23, 2018 21:53
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Bonaventure posted:Since I was genuinely curious about SMG's ideas about satire I'm sticking around for his answer but don't worry I'll be gone after that and you can go back to posting "actually OP" at jivjov. I don't believe you.
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Sep 23, 2018 21:55
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No as in neither, no to the first, or no to the second?
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Sep 23, 2018 21:57
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Bongo Bill posted:No as in neither, no to the first, or no to the second? No.
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Sep 23, 2018 22:00
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porfiria posted:No. Or, I guess, a fourth option would be No as in a refusal to answer.
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Sep 23, 2018 22:01
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I love people getting hot under the collar over Star Wars. It certainly beats the awful Week of Canon.
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Sep 23, 2018 22:04
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Bongo Bill posted:Or, I guess, a fourth option would be No as in a refusal to answer. The story group could probably tell you which one is canon.
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Sep 23, 2018 22:05
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porfiria posted:I love people getting hot under the collar over Star Wars. It certainly beats the awful Week of Canon. That was fun. This is trash and needs to die painfully. Like Star Wars
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Sep 23, 2018 22:07
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Bongo Bill posted:No as in neither, no to the first, or no to the second? Yes.
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Sep 23, 2018 22:57
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Will you please help me better understand what your post about "The Lord of the Swastika" means in regard to "The Iron Dream"?
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Sep 23, 2018 23:14
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It boggles my mind that someone can look at the whole Casino Planet arc and say, "Yes, that was well written, well acted, and well executed."
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Sep 23, 2018 23:25
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I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread, but I saw a video talking about RotS last night that pointed out that Anakin's heartbeat stops for something like twelve seconds during the suiting sequence. I never noticed that! edit: Here. It also has an interesting take on Padme losing the will to live bit.
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Sep 24, 2018 00:03
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SolarFire2 posted:It boggles my mind that someone can look at the whole Casino Planet arc and say, "Yes, that was well written, well acted, and well executed." I just know it makes people like you mad, and regardless this is good.
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Sep 24, 2018 00:29
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SolarFire2 posted:It boggles my mind that someone can look at the whole Casino Planet arc and say, "Yes, that was well written, well acted, and well executed." What do you dislike about it?
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Sep 24, 2018 00:37
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I thought it was good. It did some of the legwork explaining the cause and nature of the conflict with the First Order that TFA failed to do.
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Sep 24, 2018 01:10
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SolarFire2 posted:It boggles my mind that someone can look at the whole Casino Planet arc and say, "Yes, that was well written, well acted, and well executed." It’s wretched of course but the whole movie is like that.
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Sep 24, 2018 02:36
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I Before E posted:What do you dislike about it? They set design, the alien designs, the fact that the plot needs the characters to make foolish, illogical decisions to move the story forward.. It's just a mess.
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Sep 24, 2018 05:47
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SolarFire2 posted:the fact that the plot needs the characters to make foolish, illogical decisions to move the story forward sounds like somebody's never watched a movie before
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Sep 24, 2018 06:00
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the casino planet could have had pod racing. what the gently caress man
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Sep 24, 2018 08:37
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Zas posted:the casino planet could have had pod racing. what the gently caress man No way, those derpy alpacas were way better!
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Sep 24, 2018 08:43
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The casino planet arc was good mostly because it was just reinforcing the point of the movie, which is that every character other then Rey is a failure And I liked it
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Sep 24, 2018 11:11
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SolarFire2 posted:They set design, the alien designs, the fact that the plot needs the characters to make foolish, illogical decisions to move the story forward.. It's just a mess. What did you dislike about the set and alien designs?
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Sep 24, 2018 12:54
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I Before E posted:What did you dislike about the set and alien designs? I'm not him but I suspect we have similar complaint. The set is just plain uninspired, it's not a Star Wars casino, hell it's not even a space casino, it's just a casino. The complaint with the aliens is more general to the whole sequels trilogy but is still pertinent. Instead of using the scene to show creative designs or old favorites its yet more beige ballsacks.
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Sep 24, 2018 14:45
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Bonaventure posted:The consistent misreading of that post I made would be enough to make me worried that I am bad at getting across the intended meaning of my words, but thankfully with the Birth of the Reader, I can remain confident that I am not a poor writer and instead you are all poor readers. Cnut isn't having a problem with getting his point across. Cnut's reading is to render the plight of droids a ‘natural’ condition as part of the milue - to ‘detoxify’ slavery. Readily admitting that if he accepts the truth, that droids are people, it would rob him of the heroes emotionally triumphant arc. Like the basic example of Obi-Wan’s “If droids could think” in light of what’s shown isn’t an inconsistency, it’s characterisation and a continuation from “why do I sense that we’ve picked up another pathetic life form.” This is where the satire from the prequels emerges, they’re critical of the old man reminiscing about a more civilised time, before the dark times, before the empire - giving this important characterisation a context. Obi-Wan is absolutely a heroic figure from the prequels, he’s also a casually racist idiot, but the point of critique here isn’t trying to bring down Obi-Wan or whatever. It’s critical of his upbringing within the Jedi, their function within the Republic, the Republic itself and the attempts to restore it - the truth that runs through and informs all of this, giving it vital context, is the slavery of droids.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:32
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I Before E posted:What did you dislike about the set and alien designs? I liked TLJ more or less, but the racing animals were admittedly really bad, like Barbie cartoon bad (and I have 6- and 3-year-old daughters, I've seen a lot of Barbie cartoons). A lot of the creatures in those movies have that same big-eyed, flat-snouted, overly-cute look.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:32
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Bongo Bill posted:Will you please help me better understand what your post about "The Lord of the Swastika" means in regard to "The Iron Dream"? The novel has a plurality of different meanings. In one interpretation, we could fixate on intention. Hitler obviously has bad intentions, and Spinrad obviously has good intentions - right? So we have a safety valve: the evil author of the one text is countered by the good author, with good intentions, and we know how we are ‘supposed to’ react. But things don’t work like that; this belief in the importance of intention already contradicts Spinrad’s stated intention: that he meant to satirize well-meaning but nonetheless thoughtlessly reactionary sci-fi authors. That’s to say Iron Dream is ‘supposed to be’ about normal people toying with “Iron Dreams”, not secret Hitlers. In that sense, the novel is already a failure. And how exactly does Spinrad criticize fascism? Here you get to the obvious point that Alternate-Universe American Hitler doesn’t actually do anything evil, he just becomes a garden-variety nerd writer hawking merch to his fans - creating a ‘merchandising empire’ instead of trying to take over the world. There’s an obvious joke that a fan convention is a rather pathetic, impotent substitute for the Nuremberg rally. Isn’t it that, seemingly, art has given American Hitler an outlet? So then, what is actually the danger posed by Lord Of The Swastika? Do evil intentions in art cause people to do bad things - like the ‘Dominators’ do with their mind-control powers? Note that Spinrad’s stated intention was NOT to satirize Joseph Campbell, but to satirize ‘degenerate’ versions of Campbell - writers (and fans) who lost sight of the deep “inner meaning” of Hero With A Thousand Faces. When authors aren’t Jungian enough, he asserts, “entropy and commercial pressure almost always pull the tale down.” Here Spinrad misses the truth of Campbell, and of his own book: that the “deep inner meaning” of Campbell is this fascist kitsch - as George Lucas points out with A New Hope’s own uncomfortable Triumph Of The Will ending. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 16:32
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galagazombie posted:The set is just plain uninspired, it's not a Star Wars casino, hell it's not even a space casino, it's just a casino. I was going to be incredulous that people were complaining that a star wars movie didn't have colourful, visually busy sets after listening to people complain about the prequels for twenty straight years but you know what that's actually just stupid enough to be real
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Sep 24, 2018 16:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The novel has a plurality of different meanings. Ah, I see. Thanks. The idea of fascism coopting whatever ideas are useful to it tracks with Spinrad's reading.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:41
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Gary Kurtz died at age 78.quote:In a statement, his family said he died of cancer and would be "hugely missed". https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-45632165
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Sep 24, 2018 18:01
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The novel has a plurality of different meanings. I would go so far as to say that the only good Campbellian fiction is that which satirizes or deconstructs the hero's journey in some fashion. Frank Herbert's preface to Dune Messiah basically explains that this is necessary, with some amount of bitterness towards people who don't want to see that happen.
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Sep 24, 2018 18:29
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Gary Kurtz died, seemed like a cool guy
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Sep 24, 2018 20:15
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Zas posted:the casino planet could have had pod racing. what the gently caress man Another call back for fans to harp on about? Ya that would have gone over really well.
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Sep 24, 2018 21:10
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Bongo Bill posted:Ah, I see. Thanks. But the rub is that the novel is not about fascism co-opting Campbell; Alt-Universe Hitler is an American writer who’s lived in the US for over three decades. This German fellow has been assimilated into American (multi-)culture, and his story of fascism is being coopted by the publishing industry and sold to presumably-centrist nerds. Moreover, American Hitler is writing in an alternate universe where, without WWII or a Cold War, Stalinist Russia has overtaken all of Eurasia and is conducting purges of Jews and other ‘class enemies’. So, can The Lord Of The Swastika not be read as a diegetic satire of Stalinism, combined with self-criticism given the autobiographical details? Wouldn’t American Hitler, a German immigrant, see himself as part of the mutant multiculture under threat by totalitarianism? The end of Lord Of The Swastika suspiciously parallels the end of WWII, with a bombing of the enemy’s Dresden, and the final “Dominator” leader effectively commiting suicide after being cornered in a bunker - except his dying act is to enact Magneto’s plot from X-Men 1. The meaning of the text is not unambiguous at all.
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Sep 24, 2018 22:23
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AndyElusive posted:Another call back for fans to harp on about? Ya that would have gone over really well. No movie has ever been made worse by having a chariot race in it.
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Sep 25, 2018 02:46
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