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Is there not one other country getting a revised focus tree for MtG? Doubt it's going to be a major since the US and UK appear to be the focus but you never know. Has it actually been confirmed to be the Dutch? There's also a lot of guesses around France and Switzerland (which doesn't make sense in a naval themed update), or maybe Italy.
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Sep 25, 2018 19:29
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We know it isn't France because pdox has already stated that the French tree is workable for now and that redesigning it is on the back burner behind more pressing concerns, such as making the 1936 Dutch a superpower.
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Sep 25, 2018 19:45
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I understand giving British Dominions and Chinese minors trees because they have the opportunity to do something. THE DUTCH are going to die 3 years into the game, every game, so whats the point?
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Sep 25, 2018 19:51
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Well governments in exile are a thing now so it really could be Netherlands. Although they did say playing as a government in exile in SP isn't going to be particularly thrilling.
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Sep 25, 2018 19:55
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Well, there's the governments-in-exile thing to consider as well. It might actually be fun playing a deposed Netherlands and doing things with a built-up navy that you position to survive the fall of the country. ^^^
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Sep 25, 2018 19:58
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It's not like there are a lot of naval empires in HOI4 to begin with if you're making a naval expansion.
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Sep 25, 2018 19:58
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bees everywhere posted:Well governments in exile are a thing now so it really could be Netherlands. Although they did say playing as a government in exile in SP isn't going to be particularly thrilling. yea on one hand that totally would work for an expansion doing governments in exile, on the other...the devs explicitly said playing those guys solo isn't super fun sooooo. Maybe Netherlands will have a unique system to make it more interesting
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Sep 25, 2018 20:06
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If the Poles and Czechs can get tools to survive a little longer, so can the Dutch.
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Sep 25, 2018 20:21
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why are you surprised that the loving netherlands are getting a focus tree in the dlc about botes they did botes, you know.
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Sep 25, 2018 21:39
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Surprise - it's actually about the tiny principality of Monaco.
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Sep 25, 2018 21:44
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Raskolnikov38 posted:the loving dutch get a new focus tree before the soviets lmao
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Sep 25, 2018 21:57
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GHOST_BUTT posted:Well, there's the governments-in-exile thing to consider as well. It might actually be fun playing a deposed Netherlands and doing things with a built-up navy that you position to survive the fall of the country. While this could be cool, I feel like giving anybody a special resistance/government-in-exile tree before Poland is incorrect. Even if this is the naval expansion.
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Sep 25, 2018 21:58
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Gamerofthegame posted:why are you surprised that the loving netherlands are getting a focus tree quote:The direct involvement of the Netherlands in World War II began with its invasion by Nazi Germany on 10 May 1940.... On 14 May 1940, one day after the bombing of Rotterdam, the Dutch forces surrendered woooooooo
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Sep 25, 2018 22:32
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Luitenant-Admiraal Conrad Emil Lambert Helfrich, GNL, KCB (11 October 1886 – 20 September 1962) of the Royal Netherlands Navy was a leading Dutch naval figure of World War II. He was born in Semarang. "In the early 1920s, when he was teaching other young sprouts at Den Helder, his favorite lecture was on the coming war between the U.S. and Japan. "When?" his students would ask him, and he would boom: "In this generation." Then he would stride to a blackboard map and chalk three Xs— on Pearl Harbor, the Panama Canal, San Francisco. 'There,' he would say, 'the attacks will fall.' " Helfrich was appointed overall commander of all forces in the Netherlands East Indies in October 1939. At the outbreak of the war in the Pacific he gave instructions to wage war aggressively. His small force of submarines sank more Japanese ships in the first weeks of the war than the entire British and US navies together, an exploit which earned him the nickname "Ship-a-day Helfrich".
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Sep 25, 2018 22:34
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I understand giving British Dominions and Chinese minors trees because they have the opportunity to do something. THE DUTCH are going to die 3 years into the game, every game, so whats the point? Granted that was when I went Communist and ate Belgium and Luxembourg for the achievement. Having Stalin to watch your back probably helped. Being able to form the United Netherlands also helps. Plus you get the Congo for bonus colonial manpower! I imagine someone who's actually good at the game could accomplish a lot.
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Sep 26, 2018 00:11
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IMO, Paradox made it pretty clear that only the US and UK would be reworked in the expansion, and that the two other nations given entirely new focus trees would be some combination of "naval focused," "a democracy" and "near the US or UK". Since they've previously expressed interest in doing all the Scandinavian nations at once, this kind of limits any new nation expansions to the Low Countries, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central America. The Netherlands fulfills all three requirements and the Dutch East Indies / Indonesia was a major naval theater during the Pacific War, so that was always the most likely based on their hints. Belgium is similarly possible, but they didn't have a big navy and the Congo was never a major theater historically, so I'd assume they'd be postponed until the France rework, which is also low-priority. Luxembourg: haha no. The caribbean and central american nations were all very weak and historically insignificant in WWII. So, that leaves Mexico, which is close to the USA and was officially a democracy (but is non-aligned in-game for some reason), but was not a major naval power or historically a major contributor to WWII. Mexico was the only nation besides the Soviets to support the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War and did send some fighter pilots to the Pacific during WWII, so if they are tag #2, the interesting stuff in their tree is going to be alt-history. Mexico getting new content also makes sense as a pair to an updated USA since they'd be one of the only nations that could give the USA a hard time from game start and they have historical claims to US territory.
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Sep 26, 2018 00:30
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Gort posted:Luitenant-Admiraal Conrad Emil Lambert Helfrich, GNL, KCB (11 October 1886 – 20 September 1962) of the Royal Netherlands Navy was a leading Dutch naval figure of World War II. He was born in Semarang. Yvonmukluk posted:I found you can hold out surprisingly well as the Netherlands, actually. If you're willing to prop yourself up with a whole bunch of colonial divisions from the East Indies to compensate for your own low manpower.
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Sep 26, 2018 00:55
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There's always Ireland.
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Sep 26, 2018 00:57
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The Macdonald proposal's already in, much like the Franco-British Union. Eamon saying yes to the Macdonald proposal is probs the big WWII alt-history interest for Ireland anyway.
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Sep 26, 2018 00:59
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Netherlands sort of makes sense, as having the East Indies gives them something like 60 million manpower to pull from.
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Sep 26, 2018 04:05
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netherlands did a tidy big in the pacific, even if on the same tier of a minor like the anzacs. I'd like paradox to go ahead and explain why they think commie and democratic japan both need to be forced to do a civil war to faceplant themselves while also giving democratic japan a hefty -.5 political power forever. why
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Sep 26, 2018 05:08
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i asked a dev a while back about putting in the dutch and they gave me a winky face which i see as a sure sign that next update is a confirmation
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Sep 26, 2018 06:25
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This reminds me that the Dutch East Indies start with 7 divisions, 0 botes, 0 planes, 1 Civ Factory, 0 Mil Factories, 1 Dockyard, and horrendous factory max per-province values. Used their manpower.
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Sep 26, 2018 07:40
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I just don't get why they're having such problems with updating focus trees. Like that's all scripting, even modders do that. So focus on unfucking the trees of the Soviets, Italy and France, add trees for Spain and other important countries.
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Sep 26, 2018 10:20
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Tahirovic posted:I just don't get why they're having such problems with updating focus trees. Like that's all scripting, even modders do that. So focus on unfucking the trees of the Soviets, Italy and France, add trees for Spain and other important countries. Italy and France's trees seem relatively fine if you ask me. The Soviet tree though, as you say, is in need of a rework, there's just way too little choice in there. I'd like to see Turkey, Iraq and Iran get trees. Especially Iraq, make it so that sometime it actually gets 20% fascist support so Britain can invade. Turkey would have the choice of making diplomatic approaches towards the Germans or the Soviets instead of staying the historical neutral course (though relations with the Soviets had been good for much of the 20s and 30s, and the Soviets were actually very important trade partners, especially in arms, for the Turks). Iran's might have to be focused on bringing order to the country and securing the frontiers, would fall in well with a rework of the Soviet tree to enable them to invade and occupy the country and possibly due it in conjunction with the British if they are in a war together. That'd make most sense if Britain and Russia occupying Iran actually made it easier to get lend-lease to the Soviets (which was the motivation for the invasion IRL). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Sep 26, 2018 |
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Sep 26, 2018 13:17
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Randarkman posted:Iran's might have to be focused on bringing order to the country and securing the frontiers, would fall in well with a rework of the Soviet tree to enable them to invade and occupy the country and possibly due it in conjunction with the British if they are in a war together. That'd make most sense if Britain and Russia occupying Iran actually made it easier to get lend-lease to the Soviets (which was the motivation for the invasion IRL).
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Sep 26, 2018 13:51
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:The problem with this is that the Soviets never need *any* lend-lease to hold off the Germans. Eh, I see AI Germany conquer AI USSR fairly regularly. Presumably the devs have better numbers on how often that happens. MP guys I've talked to have said the USA needs to get its military factories up-and-running ASAP to make fighters to lend-lease the USSR, so presumably they're needed.
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Sep 26, 2018 13:56
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Gort posted:Eh, I see AI Germany conquer AI USSR fairly regularly. Presumably the devs have better numbers on how often that happens. 
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Sep 26, 2018 14:01
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Tahirovic posted:I just don't get why they're having such problems with updating focus trees. Like that's all scripting, even modders do that. So focus on unfucking the trees of the Soviets, Italy and France, add trees for Spain and other important countries. half the time new focus trees are broken in some way on release anyway, lacking testing. like on release of WTT South Africa and Australia, I believe, were both completely paralyzed with fear because they don't continue down their tree if Germany didn't go to war with UK/wasn't fascist. That said, the obvious answer is just because despite being the simplest thing it also actually sells the dlc. I am... legitimately not sure what WTT adds to the game that the free patch doesn't other then the four-ish focus trees.
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Sep 26, 2018 14:05
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Rumour has it the forum maintenance has run into a snag so the dev diary may be postponed for a while... guess we're all going to have to wait before we find out how the Dutch are going to become the next superpower.
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Sep 26, 2018 14:44
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soviets and italians focuses truly loving suck. boring as poo poo and with no room for hard choices.
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Sep 26, 2018 15:41
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Yeah in posting that I was fully aware that it is only my experience and therefore confirmation bias, but I have literally never seen AI Germany beat AI Soviets. Not once. My two friends of mine that I play MP with also have the same story. But, if MP and hundreds, if not thousands, of observer games run by Paradox show otherwise then Nthing that I’ve also never seen the Germans beat the Soviets in 10+ playthroughs. They usually get bogged down and run out of manpower before making it to Moscow, then collapse quickly after that, resulting in VE Day occurring in 1942-1943. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a WW2 go to 1945, even when I’m playing hands off as the USA or something.
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Sep 26, 2018 15:50
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As far as I've been able to tell, whether or not Germany beats the USSR depends on whether or not their focuses actually go in their favor. They're well set up against the USSR if appeasement happens and they don't have to fight for Austria or Czechoslovakia, then use their focuses to turn Romania and Hungary Axis. If WW2 kicks off over Austria or Czechoslovakia, then Germany's much worse off. And if the Assassinate Hitler event fires during the war with the Czechs, WW2 is basically canceled.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:18
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With the forums back up today's diary can also now be read; it's too late though, Wiz has already gotten me all worked up about city planets and trade routes... The rest of you can read the diary here though: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-je-maintiendrai-netherlands-focus-tree.1121147/ It shows the changes coming to the Netherlands as well as their justification for choosing them. Seems like they have a lot to choose from, even if they get kicked off the continent early in the war. Also, I never realized until now the Philips was Dutch multinational - you learn something new every day.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:22
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Acute Grill posted:As far as I've been able to tell, whether or not Germany beats the USSR depends on whether or not their focuses actually go in their favor. They're well set up against the USSR if appeasement happens and they don't have to fight for Austria or Czechoslovakia, then use their focuses to turn Romania and Hungary Axis. If WW2 kicks off over Austria or Czechoslovakia, then Germany's much worse off. Each time Germany loses all of its manpower by the end of '41 and has to go to All Adults Serve before they ever take Kiev / advance past The Stalin Line. I've played a lot of Nat China and once I saw Germany collapse vs the Soviets when I as China am pushing on the Urals before Germany even wardecs them.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:24
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After some changes made prior to the release of Waking the Tiger the German AI was made slightly less suicidal and seemed better able to manage it's resources and manpower. It no longer always bleed itself dry banging it's hard on France's borders. With historical focuses on I almost always saw them beat the USSR, usually without much problem after the initial invasions were over. The Russians never seemed to lack for manpower but it was usually a bunch of men running around with no guns or equipment so all they could do was line up and get shot, delaying the capitulation but never stopping it. The main issue after that is that after Germany and Japan carve Russia in two they dont need to spend any additional time or resources pacifying or administrating such a massive territory so they begin to benefit from it immediately and can drag out the war accordingly.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:34
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Each of my experiences have been when everything goes Germany's way - Anchluss, annexation of the Czechs, Molotov-Ribbentrop, ect. I have not played many games with Historical Focuses off. I've seen AI Germany beat AI USSR but they need to open with something akin to the historical "largest encirclement in human history" if they're gonna make any kinda meaningful push through Ukraine and Belarus into Russia proper. Anybody that wants to play Infantry Grind with Stalin is gonna lose, and the AI tends to go that route rather than attempting to, y'know, Blitzkrieg.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:34
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I mean it’s not like the the soviets had three major, war spanning naval campaigns followed by a smaller fourth campaign or anything
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Sep 26, 2018 17:43
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I mean it’s not like the the soviets had three major, war spanning naval campaigns followed by a smaller fourth campaign or anything I'm curious what other Soviet players do as far as navy. I generally figure I can't beat Japan, can't get out of the Black Sea (and if I could, there's fuckall good my Black Sea fleet could do in the Med anyway), and that the Barents Sea sucks so focus my efforts primarily on building up the Baltic Fleet (Red Fleet vs. Kriegsmarine is potentially winnable) with the leftovers going into surrounding Japan with subs so it'll at least sting if they gently caress with me.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:54
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using the captured dockyards in europe to build enough boats in vladivostok to game an invasion of japan since the AI allies will never do it
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Sep 26, 2018 18:01
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