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E21 is just pure ridiculousness I mean the kicker is what “18” years old when he totally looks 30 to 40. Still my favorite is how one of the best corners is a just a guy who looks like Vegeta. In terms of football rules it pretty much breaks a couple but hey rule of cool tends to be the theme. Just so I don’t spoil it and put it under spoilers Its pretty great how the main character ends up with a secret identity, mostly due to the QB making sure nobody can get idea who he is so he doesn’t get recruited. I like how Sena is a mix of LDT and Barry Sanders. My favorite is how they make a move that somehow makes time go backwards when it’s just a juke with a spin lol.
Shindragon fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Sep 25, 2018 |
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Sep 25, 2018 14:17
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To be fair, there’s like 50 different variations of footballs rules between high school, college, professional, and what exact year it is.
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Sep 25, 2018 14:41
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah she's still alive. She barely escaped being thrown under the bus and getting eaten by the Monster King like the cockroach dude since neither of them managed to kill any heroes. I guess since she lost but didn't lose a limb she had a better argument for them to not destroy her. She might not be strong but she has useful abilities with her mind control stuff so she gets to stick around.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:56
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Shindragon posted:E21 is just pure ridiculousness I mean the kicker is what “18” years old when he totally looks 30 to 40. Still my favorite is how one of the best corners is a just a guy who looks like Vegeta. In terms of football rules it pretty much breaks a couple but hey rule of cool tends to be the theme. Just so I don’t spoil it and put it under spoilers Its pretty great how the main character ends up with a secret identity, mostly due to the QB making sure nobody can get idea who he is so he doesn’t get recruited. I like how Sena is a mix of LDT and Barry Sanders. My favorite is how they make a move that somehow makes time go backwards when it’s just a juke with a spin lol. You've got it mixed up, the "time reversal" is when he realizes he can juke directly backwards. The juke with the spin move is the Devil Bat Hurricane. Or maybe the Devil Bat Ghost, one of those two. The series has some really well done character development as well--Sena really grows as a character to an astounding degree, and it all feels very natural.
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Sep 25, 2018 19:25
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Amppelix posted:Eyeshield 21 opponents do indeed have gimmicks such as: Don’t forget I am black
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Sep 25, 2018 20:14
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The Lord of Hats posted:You've got it mixed up, the "time reversal" is when he realizes he can juke directly backwards. The juke with the spin move is the Devil Bat Hurricane. Or maybe the Devil Bat Ghost, one of those two. Ah right forgot about that move.
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Sep 25, 2018 20:37
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Amppelix posted:Eyeshield 21 opponents do indeed have gimmicks such as: I mean to be fair that's accurate to real-life football. Tall cornerbacks with long arms are en vogue because goddamn giant wide receivers are nutso at high-pointing the ball so if you're some 5'9" scrub you better get used to playing nickel. Or have big ups. Same with arm length and offensive tackles. It's less racial and more just blind genetic lottery cause there's plenty of racial diversity along the offensive line in college and pro ball. That's not to say there's not plenty of lovely tired loving racial "stereotypes/memes" about white player vs black player (to simplify). "Gym rat" vs "quick-twitch muscle", that kind of poo poo. Being black = superpower seems like a weird distant outsider's perception of these outdated yet still prevalent thoughts.
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Sep 26, 2018 02:21
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eyeshield 21 did have some of the best character moments i've ever seen in a manga and murata's art helped that in no small part
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Sep 26, 2018 04:19
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I'm honestly not sure if I can think of a moment in a manga that knocked me the gently caress out as hard as Hiruma's Third Question did. Murata made it outstanding to look at but Inagaki deserves just as much praise.
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Sep 26, 2018 10:45
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:I'm honestly not sure if I can think of a moment in a manga that knocked me the gently caress out as hard as Hiruma's Third Question did. Murata made it outstanding to look at but Inagaki deserves just as much praise. Which moment was this?
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Sep 26, 2018 13:07
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Zerilan posted:Which moment was this? For the people who haven't read it yet, this is a major ES21 moment so don't read it! Near the beginning of the series, Hiruma asks Mamori three questions and says if she gets one of them wrong she'll have to do anything he says. He asks her two questions, then fucks off without asking a third. It is never mentioned again... Until literally two hundred some chapters later when Hiruma gets tackled by the previously mentioned Biggest High Schooler Ever and has his arm broken. Maybe both? I forget. Anyway, Mamori is taking care of him in the locker room and Hiruma says he's going to keep playing despite his injuries. Mamori is very sensibly against this but out of nowhere, Hiruma says something like, "Question #3. There have been players who continued playing football despite having broken bones. True or False?" Mamori sees right through him and understands if she answers True that he'll insist on going back to the field. She says false, thus getting the third question wrong so he enforces the terms from before and makes her bandage him up so he can go back out. Hiruma had long since been one of the best characters ever to me, but that moment forever cemented him and the series as all time greats to me.
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Sep 26, 2018 14:53
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Amppelix posted:
Works for Ryuji Goda
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Sep 26, 2018 17:29
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I fuckin' love Hiruma and that is one of my Top 2 scenes. The othervbring the march.
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Sep 26, 2018 17:54
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Man I might re read but just skip the end. Also avoid the anime. Goddamn that was bad
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Sep 26, 2018 18:03
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bacon flaps posted:I mean to be fair that's accurate to real-life football.
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Sep 26, 2018 18:28
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Hate-Senpai posted:I fuckin' love Hiruma and that is one of my Top 2 scenes. The othervbring the march. Mine is probably the no-huddle onside kick against the nagas where everyone independently realized the plan just from Hiruma saying that victory was almost impossible.
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Sep 26, 2018 18:52
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Thanks for the recommends!
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Sep 26, 2018 19:36
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Shin and Sakuraba in the rain is my Italian chef kisses fingertips scene
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Sep 27, 2018 00:25
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AnonSpore posted:Shin and Sakuraba in the rain is my Italian chef kisses fingertips scene I ended up liking Sakuraba's story way, way more than I originally thought I would. It was handled really well, and didn't feel as ham-fisted as I thought it was going to be from the beginning.
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Sep 27, 2018 00:35
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The talk in this thread finally inspired me enough to start reading ES21, which I've been meaning to do for a few years now, but never got around to. I have to say, I'm only at the part where the Devilbats just got off their flight to America, after the game against the Aliens, but I'm not really seeing where the manga itself is being as racist as some people said. Now, first off, absolutely, Apollo, the Aliens' coach, is clearly the most racist coach in America, to the point of deliberately cutting his own nose off to spite his face in refusing to have a single black player. I mean, the manga itself makes this REALLY clear, that he's a racist man that is driven by racism, and that he's utterly misguided in doing so, acting out of bitter jealousy and anger inspired by his past as a mediocre player in the NFL that even his own white coach wouldn't prop up. But he's also the only one that's spouting all this 'blacks are just athletically superior', 'blacks are biologically different than whites', blah blah blah poo poo...aside from one comment from Shin, which is pretty bad, but, well, let's not pretend that the Japanese are actually free of ignorance when it comes to black people in real life. Panther is incredibly awesome, his grandmother is awesome, and his teammates are awesome in that they support him 100%, and every single one of them hates their coach's racist bullshit, having planned to shove it down his throat directly and only being stopped because Panther respected their coach as a football player and coach and begged them not to, despite his racism. I mean, this is a manga, from the land of the rising sun, so I was expecting way worse than what I'm seeing so far. I mean, Morgan is pretty heavy on the 'bling' stereotypes, don't get me wrong, but the manga also points out that he's pretty weird for being such a goldbug, rather than trying to suggest he's your normal black NFL player, too. And I know it can always get worse, now that they're in America. I mean, I just finished reading a page with the 'Sexy Queens' beach football team being introduced. Not trying to suggest this manga is free from anything problematic (that Shin commentary made me cringe more than anything else, even Grandma's comment of 'the power of black jumping', which I could kind of wave off as 'be proud of your people'), I was just expecting...a lot worse. Guess there's always time for me to eat my words still to come, though.
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Sep 28, 2018 09:24
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People poop on the the last arc of Eyeshield 21 and I sort of get their point but I think it’s great. It has one of my hands-down favorite moments: ”I don’t know why you’re asking that question.”
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Sep 28, 2018 10:14
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EimiYoshikawa posted:The talk in this thread finally inspired me enough to start reading ES21, which I've been meaning to do for a few years now, but never got around to. No, that's literally it. People tend to exaggerate when talking about ES21's racism. That bit with Panther is the only thing like that in the whole series and like I mentioned before and as you mentioned in your post it is not racist in a hateful way, just an ignorant way. Morgan's iffy design and "Black athletes are literally superior" are the whole thing, it's completely overblown. EDIT: Also yeah, ES21 ends with the Christmas Bowl and the final chapter. The bits in between with the All Star teams and whatnot is pure extra fanservice and it is loving awesome IMO. Triple Dragonfly, man. Triple Dragonfly. EDIT2: I guess someone could try to argue racism re: the designs of the Egyptian-themed team but that is so low on the "Racism" scale that you'd have to be looking for something to get mad about to take issue with it, IMO. Cipher Pol 9 fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 13:47
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the idea that someone has to be looking to be offended is so dumb, like let people critique poo poo "black athletes are just better" ideas also folds into centuries of fetishization of black bodies and sees them as objects and also writes off whatever black folks arent good at sports or have large penises or whatever standards you're holding black people too. Like I get what you're saying but "I was expecting much worse" made me wince. Yeah it could be worse, but it's still bad and I think it's important to understand why because you can always enjoy something while recognizing why exactly its harmful Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 14:34
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Expect My Mom posted:the idea that someone has to be looking to be offended is so dumb, like let people critique poo poo No no, I specifically meant that regarding my last point about people potentially calling racism on the Sphinx's designs. I make no excuses for the Power Of Black Athletes thing. It is a perfectly legitimate criticism and worth discussing and it has talked about been plenty already. What annoys me is that it's brought up whenever ES21 comes up as if that issue or racism in general is pervasive throughout the entire goddamn series when it's actually only found in that one arc and centered on that one character. That's what they meant (I think) by expecting much worse, as in more than just one problematic issue. It'd be one thing if the NASA arc ended and then later down the line another team with a Black Dude showed up and they had to Overcome The Power Of The Blacks or something, but it doesn't. "ES21 has an arc with some problematic racist poo poo in it" vs "ES21 is incredibly racist" are two completely different arguments and whether joking or serious the latter is said much more often, especially on this forum.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:46
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ah my b yeah, i don't think those parts were written intending to be hateful, but i would never say it was intended to be respectful, and it's kept me from really enjoying it. then again, maybe it shouldn't since it does seem to come more from places of ignorance rather than any outward malice. it's just, yeah it could have been worse, but it could have been better and I personally don't like just glossing over it, even if comparably it isn't a big part. obviously tons of people like, and it for absolutely valid reasons, it's just always been hard for me to recommend and i gotta go elsewhere for my Sports Fix i dunno man, it's early and im rambling! Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 14:51
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Expect My Mom posted:ah my b It's all good! I should've been clearer with my wording.  It's up to each person's interpretation and background how much something will bother them. I'm not black so it's way easier for me to write it off as not a big deal if I ignore the loaded history of people doing and saying stuff like that as fact. But instead I totally see how it could bother people enough to turn them off the series as a whole. I think it's unfortunate since there's so much good in the series, but it's not up to me to decide where people's lines are drawn. It's always better to think in terms of "it could be better," but given the common ignorance of the Japanese wrt to other races and cultures, I think "it could have been worse" is the best thing that can be said about the Panther stuff. It really could have gotten so much worse. Thankfully it didn't. He's a great character and his story is definitely intended to be against racism considering the circumstances and everything surrounding him, but that ignorant psuedo-science nonsense mucks up the message. EDIT: This is all very off-topic though, apologies to anyone seeing new posts and hoping for a new chapter. I want one too, I just love ES21 so much.
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Sep 28, 2018 16:21
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If they released Eyeshield 21 in those big rear end collections like they do for One Piece or even those three-issue books I would be so happy. Eyeshield 21 was very formative for me despite its flaws and watching Murata evolve his art style was amazing. It's literally a manga about never giving up.
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Sep 28, 2018 17:06
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:It'd be one thing if the NASA arc ended and then later down the line another team with a Black Dude showed up and they had to Overcome The Power Of The Blacks or something, but it doesn't. This is basically the final arc, though. Like, the thing with Panther gets repeated basically beat-for-beat, except this time it's a tournament manager and a different team that also this time has a Native American caricature. The whole last arc kinda sucks, and that doesn't help. At least the NASA game was entertaining and impactful.
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Sep 28, 2018 18:51
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Thanks guys, I know accurately what to expect now and will read ES21.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:54
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to be fair, i think in all the discussion in the last page or two just noted racist elements, i don't recall anyone suggesting it was bad enough to make the whole work irredeemably racist. in fact, i was the poster that raised the subject, but i also gave it a recommendation in the same post. i certainly enjoyed the majority of ES21, but when recommending it, especially in a medium like the internet where you don't necessarily know all the details about who you are recommending a series to, i think it's important to let people know about a fairly problematic section that shows up twice in the narrative. and as a racial minority i know it can be just as disconcerting and potentially upsetting to encounter racism out of ignorance, even if the ignorance attributes your race "positive traits", as it can be to see hateful racism. sure it could have been worse, and i'm sure there are plenty of people like me and you who could end up looking past it, but it's a potentially unpleasant to just stumble across, so i treat it the same way i would an otherwise good series that has a skeevy sexual harassment character or a character who's actually a three thousand year old demon i swear, or other story element that has the potential to make someone very uncomfortable when they read it
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Sep 29, 2018 01:23
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The first time the Man with The Power of the Black People shows up, it's actually not a bad little parable about racism, especially given that it comes from Japan. The coach is nursing his grudge about being passed over as a pro player by some black rear end in a top hat who didn't train very hard, so he doesn't give his team's star player a shot because he's black. But over the course of the game it comes out that the kid's amazing not because of the natural muscles only blacks have, but because he's trained three times harder than anyone else and viewed the hate his coach dumps on him as an opportunity to better himself. The coach grows, the kid's heroic, his team would have won if it wasn't for horrible racism, a lesson is learned and everyone goes on with their lives. The second time he shows up, nope, it was the impossible power only blacks have after all and he's just physically superior. But that whole last storyline was kinda crap.
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Sep 29, 2018 03:36
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Last arc kinda felt like bad fanfiction of the series imo when the previous arc was like the natural climax of the series.
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Sep 29, 2018 05:59
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I am enjoying this football chinese comic discussion in the football chinese comic discussion thread
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Sep 29, 2018 06:00
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I once heard someone compare the last arc of ES21 with the Buu Saga of DBZ.
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Sep 29, 2018 06:28
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skaianDestiny posted:I am enjoying this football chinese comic discussion in the football chinese comic discussion thread Actually they play American Football in Eyeshield 21, or at least a version of it.
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Sep 29, 2018 06:37
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Mraagvpeine posted:I once heard someone compare the last arc of ES21 with the Buu Saga of DBZ. Buu saga owns though
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Sep 29, 2018 06:43
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Mraagvpeine posted:I once heard someone compare the last arc of ES21 with the Buu Saga of DBZ.
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Sep 29, 2018 07:15
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It's actually more like what I've seen of DB Super. Specifically the big multi-dimensional tournament. Basically everyone's favorite character from every team gets to play, even the useless ones, and they all fight alternate universe versions of themselves and their friends, who are much stronger than them up until the point that they aren't for whatever reason.
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Sep 29, 2018 07:37
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Andrast posted:Buu saga owns though The Buu saga is a number of really great moments that fail to make a cohesive whole.
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Sep 29, 2018 18:56
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New chapter is up: https://imgur.com/gallery/eegVp
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Oct 1, 2018 00:55
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