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Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
Wednesday's Cards: Coffers, i.e. the return of coin tokens from Guilds.

Thursday's Cards: Artifacts, cards that only one person can have but possession can change, much like Lost in the Woods.

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Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
Flag bearer is an interesting little bit of second player advantage.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
My only displeasure with these new cards is it makes me very badly want to track down a 2nd-Edition-style printing of Guilds (or rather, Cornucopia/Guilds) just so half my cards don't say Coin Tokens while the other half says Coffers

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
That's how DXV gets you. I don't know how reasonable upgrade packs are priced though.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Mr. Squishy posted:

That's how DXV gets you. I don't know how reasonable upgrade packs are priced though.

The only upgrade packs were for the brand new Kingdom cards for base and intrigue. Beyond that, it's "live with the old wording or buy a whole new box"

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Those artifacts look fun.

rchandra
Apr 30, 2013


jivjov posted:

My only displeasure with these new cards is it makes me very badly want to track down a 2nd-Edition-style printing of Guilds (or rather, Cornucopia/Guilds) just so half my cards don't say Coin Tokens while the other half says Coffers

And then a Seaside to fix Pirate Ship's coin tokens that aren't coin tokens Coffers.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
Final preview is Projects. Same grouping as Events/Landmarks, you buy it once and get that effect for the rest of the game.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Mega64 posted:

Final preview is Projects. Same grouping as Events/Landmarks, you buy it once and get that effect for the rest of the game.

Citadel is awesome. Only concern is that it only affects the first action you play, so order of operations becomes more important

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
Star Charts is obviously very useful. I'd like to play around with Innovation, that one seems odd.

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
I've mocked the Dominion dot net AI for goofy trashing, but a presumed real person, who talks in chat, just Exorcised a Colony to gain a ghost.

CaptainRightful
Jan 11, 2005

Just played a game with Rebuild, Labyrinth, and Castles and my opponent decided to ignore Rebuild. What a slaughter.

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
A thought that occurs is that immediately after an expansion w/ a lot of powerful one-shot Treasures (Lamp for Wishes, Mirror for Ghosts), Donald introduces Treasurer, the first thing that can fish Treasures out of the trash.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
Card names for everything in Renaissance leaked. This is apparantly translated from German, so might not 100% line up with English names

Kingdom cards:
Acting Troupe, Border Guard, Cargo Ship, Ducat, Experiment, Flag Bearer, Hideout, Improve, Inventor, Lackeys, Mountain Village, Old Witch, Patron, Priest, Recruiter, Research, Scepter, Scholar, Sculptor, Seer, Silk Merchant, Spices, Swashbuckler, Treasurer, Villain

Artifacts:
Flag, Horn, Key, Lantern, Treasure Chest

Projects:
Academy, Barracks, Canal, Capitalism, Cathedral, Citadel, City Gate, Crop Rotation, Exploration, Fair, Fleet, Guildhall, Innovation, Pageant, Piazza, Road Network, Sewers, Silos, Sinister Plot, Star Chart

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Neat. So obviously Old Witch and Villain are the attacks. Can't really glean any information about other non-attack interactions from the names tho. Sinister Plot seems like it could have an attack element although not sure how they could balance an every turn thing, maybe something where you can optionally do it by discarding a card yourself (or some other "hurt yourself to hurt your opponent" style trade)?

Also trying to figure out what cards pair with what artifacts. Border Guard pretty likely pairs with Horn. Maybe Lantern with Hideout, since hideouts are dark? A lantern seems kind of low tech for an Inventor. Also guessing Lantern is an end of turn self-Scout, and Horn is maybe a perma-Moat until someone steal it?

Not sure what else we can deduce, outside of just matching names with previous effects, like maybe Road Network is like Highway/Bridge and gives you a perma -1 to card costs.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
So the RGG website lists Renaissance as being released...but still no rulebook upload, and neither of my local shops have it in yet. Wishful thinking, I suppose.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

I think it's a good sign that there were no delays and everything is probably at the distributors. They'll hopefully start shipping out to retailers and post the rule book in the next day or two.

H2Omelon
Aug 31, 2009
The Renaissance rulebook is out!

http://riograndegames.com/Game/1334-Dominion-Renaissance

Click on Download Game Assets

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
The wildest card in there is Capitalism. It's a $5 project that gives every Action that pays out money the Treasure type. They can now be played like a Treasure for the money stated, so no more colliding terminal silvers at the most basic interaction. Beyond that, for instance, Bandit becomes a murderer, Forager can outdo Platinum, etc etc etc.

H2Omelon
Aug 31, 2009
Wine Merchant, Merchant Guild, Goons, Bridge, Mountebank, theres a ton of power cards that work with Capitalism.

I'm a fan of Fleet. An extra turn once the game is over!

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
Fleet is essentially insurance against someone's tricky three-pile shenanigans. So something I would not be able to take advantage of playing in person where we don't have vp counters or engage in shenanigans.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
The Secret History of Dominion: Renaissance is out.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009


Traditional Games > Dominion: Well, twelfth expansion, trying to have simple cards, no regrets

Dr. Video Games 0069
Jan 1, 2006

nice dolphin, nigga
Capitalism

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

I genuinely love how good DXV's gotten at creating clever twists on core concepts that keep them simple but introduce something new. He used to complain a lot about how he didn't want to keep creating expansions because of the complexity bloat, but then there are cards here which are as simple as stuff from the first two expansions but feel fresh. I'm a big fan of Old Witch as a concept, it starts significantly better and stays good for you longer with the extra card, but is potentially clearing out the curses from your opponents decks at that point. Not much extra text required but still a fun new twist.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
Renaissance showed up at my FLGS today, and spielgeek is taking orders for dividers. Life is good

Bobfly
Apr 22, 2007
EGADS!
This is in my top few, very possibly top 1, of favorite games in the world.
But I'm not very good at it. I can recognize basic patterns, I'm probably proficient up to something like Seaside, but once more advanced cards start arriving, I kind of get lost in the woods and just start buying cards that look interesting without a very good idea of how to get to 8 coins a turn.
Part of the problem might be that my regular opponents tend to prefer this style of play, I've been lambasted a few times for trashing too heavily, "because it leads to playing the same turn over and over". But I want to get good. How do you do it? (heh)

But seriously. Are there any particular aspects of a board that are important to keep in mind? How do you recognize a good combo? Do you start with the last step of the winning turn and then work out how to build up to that?

Okay, so that's a huge topic. In lieu of that, then: What things have you guys done that you feel has improved your play the most? Is it simply a matter of playing tons of games in a competitive setting, or are there any good learning resources out there?

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Bobfly posted:

This is in my top few, very possibly top 1, of favorite games in the world.
But I'm not very good at it. I can recognize basic patterns, I'm probably proficient up to something like Seaside, but once more advanced cards start arriving, I kind of get lost in the woods and just start buying cards that look interesting without a very good idea of how to get to 8 coins a turn.
Part of the problem might be that my regular opponents tend to prefer this style of play, I've been lambasted a few times for trashing too heavily, "because it leads to playing the same turn over and over". But I want to get good. How do you do it? (heh)

But seriously. Are there any particular aspects of a board that are important to keep in mind? How do you recognize a good combo? Do you start with the last step of the winning turn and then work out how to build up to that?

Okay, so that's a huge topic. In lieu of that, then: What things have you guys done that you feel has improved your play the most? Is it simply a matter of playing tons of games in a competitive setting, or are there any good learning resources out there?

Play lots of games for free at http://dominion.games/
Read a million strategy articles at: https://dominionstrategy.com/

CaptainRightful
Jan 11, 2005

Bobfly posted:

I kind of get lost in the woods

Then stop buying Fool!

Seriously, it just takes a lot of practice to get familiar with everything. Don't dive into competitive matches online where all the expansions get thrown at you at once.

As for your friends' preferences for big engines vs a slim deck: that could easily bite them in the rear end. Identify the key features of the kingdom before you buy anything. If there's no +buy, then there's no reason to build an engine that gives you more than 8 coin per hand (unless you're playing with colonies). Are there more cursers than trashers? Then you can clog up their engines. Use attacks like Militia, Torturer, Margrave, and Urchin/Mercenary to stall their engines. Look for opportunities to rapidly drain 3 piles with you grabbing duchies. Look for game changers like Rebuild that will outpace engines.

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.
A lot of the top players (going by the online client's leaderboard) have youtube accounts where they post videos of league matches, most of them w/ audio commentary where they explain their thinking. Checking just now, every single one of the top 5 have active channels. My personal favourite is Mic Qsenoch but I think he's taking a sabbatical, so maybe SamE, RTT or Burning Skull. But like I say, they're all at it, so if you're up for watching 6 games played over 3 hours, you can probably find someone for you.
There's also the Dominion discord where they all hang out and post about which card's the best.

Mr. Squishy fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Dec 10, 2018

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Trashing heavily is still super important, even if/when you are going for an engine. One of the core tenets of the game is understanding how to balance your points (which usually clog up your deck) as well as your payload and your method of getting to that payload. An engine that consistently does a big flashy turn that generates 3 or 4 coins is obviously not doing anything actually impressive.

If you want to show your friends the power of trashing, trash all your starting poo poo but then instead of just getting money and buying provinces start building the same kind of engine they are doing, and eventually at the end of your turns you will have drawn your entire deck and bought like 2 provinces instead of petering out into nothing.

Then your friends will either get frustrated or get better themselves, forcing you to get even better to compensate! You can't really get better at the game if you're playing Village Idiots all the time, so try the online version and see a wide variety of playstyles, and just keep practicing! Good luck!

Bobfly
Apr 22, 2007
EGADS!
They're well aware of the power of trashing, they just think it makes for boring games and get (very) slightly annoyed when I play to win rather than to have interesting plays. But yeah, I should probably get into online. Can only be more productive than WoW at any rate.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Sure, my point (which I admit was kind of round about) was that you could trash and then still have the big flashy interesting plays. The key difference is that those plays will have a bigger and more impressive payoff, and show how high skill can be more interesting instead of automatically less.

Bobfly
Apr 22, 2007
EGADS!
That makes sense. Look forward to getting there :)

Ragnar34
Oct 10, 2007

Lipstick Apathy
I have six expansions now. How do I store this game in one box without spending a bunch of money? I'm willing to go to Lowes.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Ragnar34 posted:

I have six expansions now. How do I store this game in one box without spending a bunch of money? I'm willing to go to Lowes.

There's an artist's case that Hobby Lobby sells for $40 and a card tray to go inside it that Broken Token sells for $27. Hobby Lobby always runs great coupons, you can easily knock 40+% off the artist case cost.

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -

Ragnar34 posted:

I have six expansions now. How do I store this game in one box without spending a bunch of money? I'm willing to go to Lowes.

Safety Biscuits
Oct 21, 2010

Ragnar34 posted:

I have six expansions now. How do I store this game in one box without spending a bunch of money? I'm willing to go to Lowes.

I put some thick corrugated plastic in each end of the box and cut open a corrugation a third of the way into the box. Then I used thinner plastic as dividers, allowing me to place three rows of cards horizontally. Stores cards very efficiently and cost a couple of USD.

Ragnar34
Oct 10, 2007

Lipstick Apathy
Wow, problem solved fast. Anyway this game rules.

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jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum


We don't have an English name or effect text for it yet...but here's the newest Dominion promo!

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