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Biomute posted:I'm sure this has been brought up before, but would a standing "you should probably just switch jobs" thing be useful in the OP? If most posts get replies that are either "you don't want to work there, run", or "your play is to find a new place to work" that's more like /r/relationships than a thread about negotiation. It's probably good advice, but it's not really on topic. I think it'd probably be net good for folks if there was a thread called "Click here for free money and hot babes!!!!" and it was full of people telling you to find a new job, let alone this thread with its directly relevant title, "the negotiation thread".
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Sep 12, 2018 17:16
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Got an offer. Was offered 58k. Range was listed as 58k to 78k. Public sector but not union or guaranteed long term because the position was created with a special budget item for the fiscal year. I meet the requirements but am switching from private to public. So it’s not a direct industry switch. I am going to see if I can get that up to 62k and I’d be happy with 60.
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Sep 14, 2018 07:10
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Got an offer. Was offered 58k. Range was listed as 58k to 78k. Public sector but not union or guaranteed long term because the position was created with a special budget item for the fiscal year. I meet the requirements but am switching from private to public. So it’s not a direct industry switch. I'd counter 74k.
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Sep 14, 2018 11:51
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evobatman posted:I'd counter 74k. unless you have a really good justification as to why you're worth this amount i don't think this is a very good idea since jizzy's BATNA is real low
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Sep 14, 2018 12:33
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Yeah his BATNA sucks real bad and he’s going to accept 58 if that’s all they offer. The question is whether he can successully bluff that his BATNA is better than it is (which basically is what negotiaing is). Probably ask for 68 shooting for 65 but realistically it’s likely going to be 60 if they come up at all.
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Sep 14, 2018 14:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:unless you have a really good justification as to why you're worth this amount i don't think this is a very good idea since jizzy's BATNA is real low
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Sep 14, 2018 16:29
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He has a job but he really, really hates it. So it’s a better BATNA than being unemployed, but just barely. Of course, unless he tipped them off, there’s no way the prospective employer should know how miserable he is in his current job. They just know he has one. The trouble is that to convincingly bluff about youe BATNA you have to be willing to actually walk away if they don’t agree to what you want. And JD can correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think he’s actually willing to do that and will accept their opening offer if he has to.
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Sep 14, 2018 17:35
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Yeah pretty much that. It’s plus 10k and he hates his current job. By the way congrats jizzy!
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Sep 14, 2018 23:05
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Thank you Griffey, you have been a constant source of positivity and support. I appreciate you. Also I’m always ready to bluff. Negotiated a bit with the supervisor but honestly she’s just super chill so it wasnt really a negotiation. After I asked for more she was basically like “yeah the budgeting office is usually okay with 5% more than the offer, let me check.” She hasn’t confirmed it yet but I am hopeful because it seems like their BATNA is poo poo. OTOH their budget seems shoestring, so idk. Given my salary research from Glassdoor and professional associations, I should be making about 62k, which is close to that 5% bump. And from my professional network it seems like nobody ever starts near the top of the range for these public positions in my field unless they are super overqualified. Generally the point of the top pay range is to serve as a reason to move up to the next position. I’m happy with the pay, excited for the job, and I should be able to leverage this to a $70k+ pay when I hop to the next position. E: gently caress my current boss and that lovely job!!!!
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Sep 15, 2018 13:10
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cool, man, that's awesome!
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Sep 15, 2018 13:18
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Congrats man! Now all that's left is to write and hand in a resignation that includes the line in the Corporate thread's title.
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Sep 15, 2018 13:55
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I haven't really posted in this thread but I've been reading it a lot and thanks in part to the pieces of advice here I've just signed an offer letter to a job that will be a 40+% raise over my current position! I was doing well before, but this process took me to another level. It also taught me the importance of having multiple offers and alternatives--the base for the position I ended up taking would probably have been around 15% less without counteroffers and negotiations.
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Sep 15, 2018 17:53
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My boss asked me to start supervising our temps (3-7 of them at any given time), onboarding new ones, giving trainings, managing their assignments, and basically being their boss so he can be the boss of the 7 full-time employees he has (including me). I wrote up a role description and played with our org chart to tinker with lines of report (or communications, whatever). I think this could be a good thing for my resume, I've managed a team in the past, and I know I can do this in addition to my regular duties without much trouble (maybe half an hour of work extra a day). 1. What can I call myself? We have formalized roles with the titles of Assistant, Coordinator, and Manager, and I don't think I will be allowed to use any of those. Is Team Liaison too dinky? My official title is Editor so I'd be on the org chart as Editor / Team Liaison. Maybe Team Lead would be better? I don't want Temp in it because it sounds like a temp promotion for me. 2. We only do performance evaluations once a year, in April. I want to ask for a raise now because this is beyond my job description and I already do more than the other Editors. Any phrasing or just good vibes for asking for a raise now? 3. What do I do in April? Assuming they give me a bump now for these additional responsibilities, would I still be able to negotiate for a raise in April? 4. Previous bumps in this job were 4.5% my first year and 3% my second year. I want to ask for 5%, but I feel almost certain that will be denied (my org is very rigid on pay bands), or the boss will say "I may be able to do 5% in April, but not now." Thoughts? I'm reading all the blogs about this, but a goon perspective is appreciated (said no one ever). THANK YOU!
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Sep 18, 2018 21:52
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Betazoid posted:1. What can I call myself? We have formalized roles with the titles of Assistant, Coordinator, and Manager, and I don't think I will be allowed to use any of those. Is Team Liaison too dinky? My official title is Editor so I'd be on the org chart as Editor / Team Liaison. Maybe Team Lead would be better? I don't want Temp in it because it sounds like a temp promotion for me. Agreed you don't want "temp" in it, but you aren't really their manager unless you're dealing with the HR end of it. So try something with "lead" in it. In my industry it's pretty typical to have the most senior engineer on the team as a "Tech Lead", who generally directs the day to day work of the other engineers on the team with overall guidance from the engineering manager and/or product manager.
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Sep 18, 2018 22:50
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Betazoid posted:My boss asked me to start supervising our temps (3-7 of them at any given time), onboarding new ones, giving trainings, managing their assignments, and basically being their boss so he can be the boss of the 7 full-time employees he has (including me). "Team Lead" would be a fine title for that in tech, not sure about your industry. Liaison is too vague, sounds sort of coordinator-ish, not supervisory. Now is the time to ask for a raise, not in April. In April you'll have been doing this work for 7-ish months without a raise, so why should they give you one then? (However, see the thread's advice regarding BATNA - if you say "I want a raise" and they say no, what's your plan?) I wouldn't expect much more than a COL increase in April.
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Sep 19, 2018 01:46
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fantastic in plastic posted:"Team Lead" would be a fine title for that in tech, not sure about your industry. Liaison is too vague, sounds sort of coordinator-ish, not supervisory. Thank you, and thanks Motronic! I think Team Lead is the right choice, even though I'm an editor / publications specialist at a nonprofit. Wish me luck. It's so obvious after reading this thread and the corporate thread for years, but if it's more work, I want more money. I am sort of doing a lot of the tasks already, but not all of them, and I'm also going to use the Ask A Manager phrasing of "I think it's for the best if we document what I'm doing, and because this is beyond the scope of the Editor role, I would like that to be recognized. Can we have my title and salary reflect these additional responsibilities? If not, I'm going to have to turn down the opportunity because it is beyond the role I was hired to fill."
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Sep 19, 2018 14:29
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"I'm very disappointed to learn that you aren't interested in professional development or in giving your all to the team."
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Sep 19, 2018 14:57
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Def *ask* but be prepared for them to decline and then you do the extra job for a bit to parlay into a better paying/higher position elsewhere* with the experience. * Assuming your industry has that kind of fluidity. If it's very difficult to change jobs, maybe you do just say "nope" idk.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:19
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Meeting with boss about raise negotiations seemingly went well. They preempted me by saying they also felt I was due a significant raise, and that they would be invoking the charter that opens for extraordinary raises due to changes in the job description (additional responsibilities etc) in addition to arguing for a raise based on my general performance and potential. So, it was very much a collaborative effort in finding ways to justify my demands. I'd decided to aim high and the boss agreed that there is no reason not to, although I think realistically I can't expect my demand to be met in full, which was also the impression I got from my boss. If they end up meeting me halfway I'd be pretty pleased though. It's somewhat up to the union, so we will see how it goes. I did end up letting them know that I had received some offers, and they said that they were not surprised, and that if I do get a tempting one to come back and see them again and they will try to match it.
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Sep 19, 2018 22:37
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Right to blow of a 3rd party recruiter that seemed very interested in knowing my current compensation despite listing my desired range? I didn't realize they weren't internal going into it and generally don't like dealing with external recruiters, probably because I'm inexperienced with doing so.
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Sep 20, 2018 00:29
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It's fine. Good things to say in that situation in the future are: "Sorry, but that's proprietary information." "Sorry, I really don't feel comfortable sharing that information at this point. It's confidential information between me and my employer." "I'm not going to tell you that, let's move on." "How much do you loving make, rear end in a top hat?"
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Sep 20, 2018 01:28
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fantastic in plastic posted:It's fine. Good things to say in that situation in the future are: Yeah, they didn't want to proceed unless I revealed the info. I assumed worse case they'd try to undercut me at my current employer, and best case they weren't really representing my interests.
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Sep 20, 2018 01:35
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Anyone who tries to demand you tell them your current salary is trying to screw you.
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Sep 20, 2018 02:22
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Eric the Mauve posted:Anyone who tries to demand you tell them your current salary is trying to screw you. yeah with the important distinction that someone demanding your current salary is not the same thing as someone asking what your compensation requirements are
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Sep 20, 2018 02:24
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PBS posted:Right to blow of a 3rd party recruiter Yes.
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Sep 20, 2018 05:34
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Glad I have this thread to learn from. I'm still not a confident negotiator, but I'm learning to spot the poo poo.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:06
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Bit of a more technical issue I'd appreciate guidance on. I got a call yesterday saying I would be offered a job, followed by an email listing the basic terms, e.g.:quote:Salary: [X] I was told on the call that once I gave them a verbal acceptance they could then prepare an offer letter, begin the onboarding process, etc. Two questions: 1) When do I make a counteroffer on salary and/or time off? Do I do it before giving the verbal acceptance or verbally accept first and then do it once I have a first offer letter in hand? 2) Whenever I do begin negotiations, in what form do I do so? E.g. I was sent this email - do I send an email with my own asks in reply, should I set up a call, etc? Note that I will be asking clarifying questions before doing anything else - there are some things that are unclear in their benefits package and some questions it doesn't cover. Sorry if this is basic. I'm a lawyer in my first job and there's no such thing as negotiations in this context - my peers and I make the same and have the same benefits, depending solely on class year.
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Sep 22, 2018 21:02
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JohnCompany posted:Bit of a more technical issue I'd appreciate guidance on. I got a call yesterday saying I would be offered a job, followed by an email listing the basic terms, e.g.: Negotiate when terms are presented but before you accept. Email is the best way to go about it. It gives you time to write your arguments out, and establishes a paper trail. It also gives you time to consider the counter offer and gives the hiring manager time to wrangle any internal stakeholders they need to get your terms approved.
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Sep 22, 2018 21:35
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Here's an odd one, but I need some help. I'm a sales guy with my own company, doing my own thing. I have made plenty of contacts in the business, and one of the other companies whom I do business with is based in Europe. They already have a good sales network for retail, and they've asked me to do some targeted sales work at non-retail outlets. Like places that don't have distribution already, or don't fit into normal categories. Like events-only sales companies, and the like. I have good reach into those companies, so it's pretty easy for me to do. They've asked me to give them my rate for this, and I have no idea what to say. They pitched it as "just tell us what you'll charge us, 50 cents, $1/unit or 10% or whatever and we can go from there." All of those numbers sound reasonable (the unit cost on the merch is like $3-15 so I'm definitely leaning towards the 10% here). But I just wonder if there is anyone here in the thread who's ever done this kind of sales work and what they charged? It's supplemental to my main income and not even close to full time work.
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Sep 28, 2018 00:52
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i would recommend some firm fixed component plus a lower per unit unless you think this thing is really gonna take off
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Sep 28, 2018 00:55
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Also, an incentive structure similar to something like that at for the first 1000 units sold you are at 10%, for the next 1000 you are at 15% and for anything over that you get 20%.
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Sep 28, 2018 07:21
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I'm in a pickle. I have a job making ~70k. I work completely remotely, which I love. It's a good job at a good company, but my role isn't very recognized or appreciated, and it frequently feels like opportunities are narrowing. There's no upward mobility. I've looked for other jobs without much success, which I think is largely due to being remote. I'm remote because my partner is in grad school and can't move, most likely for the next one or two years. I have no interest in long distance, we've done it before and it was really difficult, and we'd like to start wedding planning. I just got an offer from a competitor company. +10k than what I'm making now, at a bigger and more prestigious company. Position would ostensibly be a lateral move, but the opportunities are much greater at this new company, the work is varied and more valued. A friend of mine just accepted a position there. It's a pretty exciting offer and I'd basically take it no questions… but they require me to move to a new city in a new state that's pretty far from where I'm currently based. I feel totally stuck. I don't want to lose focus on my own career because of my partner's situation, but I also don't want to leave this area for that and other reasons! How do people make these decisions? Should I attempt to negotiate for remote? Are there any conceivable compromises that a company might make for situations like these? I moved for my current job and was able to transition to remote after about a year.
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Sep 28, 2018 18:46
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Your life is more important than your job. If you can't move, say that. If they're still interested, great. If not, you'll be ready to move in two years or whatever, so say that too.
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Sep 28, 2018 19:28
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I've got a bit of a conundrum you guys can probably help with. I've got a job offer from a company I've been interviewing with. It's a decent offer, the salary bump is minimal and the benefits are worse but the title and responsibilities are way better than what I'm currently doing. Whether I want this job is kind of besides the point though - I want to try to leverage this in to a raise or promotion at my current company. My team is pretty short staffed at the moment as we just lost one of our better engineers and the replacement position was stolen from us by another team in our division so we're not getting a replacement. This plays in to my hand a bit as me leaving would not only rob the team of another engineer, but I'm also a team lead with half the team reporting to me. With all that said, is it a good idea to go to my boss telling him I have an offer (without revealing the salary or benefit details) and ask for a raise or promotion? I've have nothing but stellar reviews my whole time here and last year was the first year I didn't get a title bump in five years of working here. I think I'm in a good position but I want to know if there's a decent strategy here to push toward a favorable outcome for me and not burn any bridges if I do end up taking the other offer. E: I should mention this other company contacted me first, I wasn't actively looking.
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Oct 5, 2018 14:56
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have you read any of the nine trillion posts in this thread about counteroffering and benchmarking?
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Oct 5, 2018 15:25
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:have you read any of the nine trillion posts in this thread about counteroffering and benchmarking? I read the last page because I'm lazy but I will go through the thread I guess!
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Oct 5, 2018 15:29
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Gigi Galli posted:I've got a bit of a conundrum you guys can probably help with. Before you do anything, make sure you are ready and willing to accept the new offer should it come to that. Really look at the new offer in terms of total compensation since you said the benefits are worse. This fuels whether you have BATNA or not. I had a similar situation three years ago. I had an offer in hand, but really just wanted to leverage it for a bump from my current employer. Ended up staying wit a 10% increase in salary, an additional week of vacation, and flexible hours. However, I did not go to my manager and say "I have a competing offer, make me your best and final or I walk". I just put in my two weeks and let them come to me with an opportunity to stay. Folks here will say this is a stunt you can pull off exactly once at your employer (since they will start looking for your replacement ASAP). I disagree with this in most cases; if your job is specialized enough and the company small enough (which it sounds like is the case here), they will just be happy to keep you.
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Oct 5, 2018 15:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:have you read any of the nine trillion posts in this thread about counteroffering and benchmarking? I suggested he post here instead of a completely unrelated chat thread, don't be rude 
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Oct 5, 2018 16:15
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Gigi Galli posted:I've got a bit of a conundrum you guys can probably help with. Personally my move would be to continue interviewing, find a place that offers a better salary bump, and then take it, regardless of counter-offers. (You could also try getting the new offer increased, I think that'd be more fruitful.) That thing you're feeling where you like where you are and would rather stay with the comfort of your current job instead of jumping into the unknown is 100% understandable, but it's something you're paying more and more for each year. You have to somehow mentally separate that feeling from the concrete aspects of your current job that are actually valuable to you if you want to compare offers fairly.
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Oct 5, 2018 16:42
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Are you prepared to leave if they say no? If you aren't, and they call your bluff, you're gonna look real sheepish and they're gonna know exactly how little your word means. I don't think trying to get a raise at one's current company is generally a good idea, but you 100% cannot do it at all if you are not willing to leave and take the other job. There are certainly some companies where this will have you branded as disloyal and they'll look for a replacement ASAP - it's hard for me to know this about your current company. There's definitely something to being essential but most people overestimate how essential they are. Sock The Great posted:Before you do anything, make sure you are ready and willing to accept the new offer should it come to that. Really look at the new offer in terms of total compensation since you said the benefits are worse. This fuels whether you have BATNA or not. This is what I needed to hear I think; I would be ready to switch for the right offer but this isn't it. I'll keep quiet and see what I can do to raise what the other company is giving me rather than try to leverage it in to something at my current position. Thanks everyone!
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Oct 5, 2018 16:45
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