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if Halkenburg is taking revolution seriously, he may already be aware of Nen just because his older siblings have it and have trained in it himself to bolster his vanguard
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Sep 28, 2018 19:28
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Brought To You By posted:In this case both Pitou and Cheetu were able to create their abilities and know how they worked on the spot (Dr. Blythe and the Crossbow). It's something that can happen in moments of genius or desperation. Another thing is the wording of Halkenburg's nen beast, it's supposed to raise the nen potential of the marked people, which might include their own ability to create and utilize nen techniques not just a flat enhancement boost to aura output. I can imagine that his own guards will also start developing abilities in short time frames after this as well, similar to Moira and her nen-ability disease. I mean, as far as instant-Nen powers go, Halkenberg's at least a much cooler and more interesting person to be a "genius" than Tserriednich, who, Theta calling him a genius aside, is just learning at Killua++ speeds. He certainly got talked up a lot as an exceptional individual prior to this. Also, there's no way this was an ability Halkenberg made before this moment, for the people speculating there; given what an idealist he is (or was, at least), making an ability like this would be really, really out of character prior to his "awakening" and realizing that he had no way out or to try to fix Kakin otherwise. Besides, the unity/symbiotic ability, at least, one of his nen beast's powers, so unless he made an incomplete ability prior for some reason, well, neither possibility there makes sense. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 20:39
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Turin Turambar posted:I think both are intertwined. I would say the resolve show when he shot himself awakened his nen. But the Neat Beast ability is to super-power up him if he is together the feather-marked people and everyone is joined in purpose. It was thanks to that he hyper evolved a hatsu-like effect in the spot. Right, I forgot that his Nen Beast already displayed some of its abilities with the feathers. gently caress it's been a while.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:00
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halkenburg's nen beast gathers, strengthens and distributes the will and aura of everyone loyal to halkenburg, centered on the man himself. if anyone's nen beast was going to spark a sudden nen awakening, it would be his. also, his hatsu is based on and synergizes with his nen beast, which provides another completely reasonable enhancement to his overall power.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:36
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It is kind of startling how strong some of the nen beast abilities are. like, given how strong harkenburgs is with like 10 people, itd probably be unstoppable if he could gather up a couple hundred loyal supporters. I guess thats consistent with how we know nen works, given the strict restrictions on the ceremony and the fact that its been going on for hundreds of years. Which suggests, now that i think about it, that the worlds strongest nen abilities probably have similar origins, being the product of ancient collective wills rather than individual martial arts training. I bet the hunter x hunter version of the pope could kick neteros rear end
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Sep 28, 2018 22:06
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unfortunately even the principled, brilliant prince has accepted that he has to participate in the ceremony to save the country now. those kids are doomed.
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Sep 28, 2018 22:11
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:unfortunately even the principled, brilliant prince has accepted that he has to participate in the ceremony to save the country now. those kids are doomed. Id like to think that kurapika will figure out a way to end the ceremony but he honestly doesnt seem too tore up about the children dying. Now, leorio, theres a guy who would never give up on finding a way to save everyone
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Sep 28, 2018 22:19
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:unfortunately even the principled, brilliant prince has accepted that he has to participate in the ceremony to save the country now. those kids are doomed. That is where the real drama lies. The older siblings are out for blood. Tyson and stoner prince are the possible exceptions. But the kids all just want to get out alive. Right now Halkenburg is furious so he'll probably be riding high on eliminating the others, but what about when he cools his head? How is his conviction going to withstand when it's a literal infant standing between his revolution and his ideals. Because that's the biggest chunk in his guardian beasts armor. It only provides absolute defense when him and his guards have the same resolve, but all it takes is to get Halkenburg out of sync and he's no more powerful than any other nen user. And since his beast doesn't compel those loyal to Halkenburg to have the same thoughts, all it takes is dissent in the group to further erode the foundation of their unity.
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Sep 28, 2018 22:21
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halleys comet posted:It is kind of startling how strong some of the nen beast abilities are. like, given how strong harkenburgs is with like 10 people, itd probably be unstoppable if he could gather up a couple hundred loyal supporters. I guess thats consistent with how we know nen works, given the strict restrictions on the ceremony and the fact that its been going on for hundreds of years. Which suggests, now that i think about it, that the worlds strongest nen abilities probably have similar origins, being the product of ancient collective wills rather than individual martial arts training. I bet the hunter x hunter version of the pope could kick neteros rear end There's also probably a hereditary componrnt to it. To be the king you have to at the minimum be skilled enough to survive a Nen powered Battle Royale by default it gets rid of the Princes with the weakest Nen potential. Benjamin and Camilla already have refined and incredibly powerful hatsus, Tserreidnich is a Nen Genius, Halkenberg probably had his hatsu bootstrapped by his Nen beast and so forth.
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Sep 28, 2018 22:24
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it's really just kurapika (and bill) standing in the way of countless people who are trying to kill a baby. except, that's not even why kurapika is there, it's outside of his skill set, and the spiders are running around in the background. all of this is an incredibly fascinating test of character for him.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:01
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They weren't lying when they said this would be the most emotional chapter yet. I'll never forget you Sale Sale 
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Sep 28, 2018 23:10
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tweet my meat posted:They weren't lying when they said this would be the most emotional chapter yet. He's my king
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Sep 28, 2018 23:33
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This might be part of how Benjimin goes down. If he does not know that one of Halkenberg's bodyguards is possessing one of his soldiers.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:35
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turboraton posted:He's my king RIP to the goon king
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Sep 29, 2018 00:08
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Roland Jones posted:Also, there's no way this was an ability Halkenberg made before this moment, for the people speculating there; given what an idealist he is (or was, at least), making an ability like this would be really, really out of character prior to his "awakening" and realizing that he had no way out or to try to fix Kakin otherwise. If you're familiar with the Lone Ranger, that old American radio staple, he famously used silver bullets. The reason he used silver bullets was because they were expensive. It was a reminder to himself that firing his gun had a cost attached - that life (like silver) was valuable, and similarly shouldn't be spent recklessly. He carried a gun to shoot and kill, but never without reason, never without considering what he was about to do, and his aim had to be true, quick, and clean. Halkenberg hates violence, but if violence is what's required, and he knows there's no other option, he'll cop it, but that also means he's determined to commit to it. His activation cost is what it is as a preventative measure. He can never wield his power indiscriminately, like a tyrant, or he'll literally lose his most loyal subjects. It's an ability to use sparingly, when need is great, only after diplomacy has failed. It's a perfect fit for him. At least until Togashi shows up and says "Nice guess, but no." EDIT: Or until we get the VIZ translation and it turns out I misunderstood his power. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 00:53
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Bad Seafood posted:Not necessarily. That's a fair point, admittedly, though a lot of those same ideals could reflect why his power developed that way now; even as Halkenberg realizes that he has to participate in the succession war and become king to end the horrors and injustices of both, he retains his overall ideals, and in fact his beast's power-sharing demands the group's commitment to them. Other half of what I said, though, was better explained here: gimme the GOD drat candy posted:halkenburg's nen beast gathers, strengthens and distributes the will and aura of everyone loyal to halkenburg, centered on the man himself. if anyone's nen beast was going to spark a sudden nen awakening, it would be his. also, his hatsu is based on and synergizes with his nen beast, which provides another completely reasonable enhancement to his overall power. Given the way his power draws from that of his nen beast, channeling their unified strength into a weapon and armor for him, it seems very, very likely that the power arose through it. In theory it could be the other way around, the beast's power serving as an enhancement to a preexisting one of his, but that seems wrong. His opposition to the succession war in its entirety shows that he wasn't, and likely still isn't for most situations, okay with the idea of sacrifices for the greater good, so there's no way he'd make a power that requires sacrificing his men without their knowledge and agreement. However, the nen lessons show that Halkenberg's men did not know nen prior to that. It seems very unlikely that he'd have told them about his ability but not nen overall, and if he did tell them about nen it'd have been weird for him to not have then taught them it or at least how to learn it as well. Plus, his ability draws on their auras; if they didn't know nen, it'd be so, so much weaker. It's pretty much only as amazing as it is now because of his nen beast. To clarify, I'm not saying that this power is unfitting for him at all. Just that he would not have made it before his recent revelations and decision to participate in the succession war, and that how it works supports the idea of it being part of his "awakening" now due to its connection to his nen beast. Tangent, I just realized that the feather motif of the beast and its "crests" fits the whole archery thing really well. His men, after all, are the arrows. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 01:29
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if his shot fails for whatever reason, the dude consumed by it is dead instead of in another body. that provides a hard limit on the number of arrows halkenburg can fire. nen's tricky and togashi is trickier. i don't trust the statement 'this will definitely hit every time'.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:43
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Bad Seafood posted:Not necessarily. Well if he does fire his arrow. His followers lose their bodies, but gain the body of whoever they hit. The story pretty much says it's unbeatable one on one as it can't be defended against. The only way I can see for it to fail is if Halkenberge misses.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:43
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well if he does fire his arrow. His followers lose their bodies, but gain the body of whoever they hit. The story pretty much says it's unbeatable one on one as it can't be defended against. The only way I can see for it to fail is if Halkenberge misses. Or if the opponent has multiple bodies, or is not actually material, or can teleport, or... I think what we need to know if the guys that are hit get a feather mark. If not that that means he gets weaker after every shot and has a limited number of arrows. trucutru fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 03:27
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Another thing is the nature of the possession which I don't think will be cleared up until the next chapter. But I think it's common visual language with artists to depict the entity possessing a person as mimicking any motion the body they inhabit is performing. Or maybe they are shown holding onto the body in a way to denote puppetry or manipulation and in this series Pitou's marionettes fit that description. The fact that Shikaku is saluting, while the spectral presence of Halk's guard is just there gets me thinking that it wasn't a transferal of the soul that happened.  But much like was previously thought by the same guard, Halkenburg is a manipulator by affinity. So what this arrow ability has done is take the zeal and loyalty Halkenburg's own guard has, and forced it onto Shikaku. So I think the Mangastream translation is mostly accurate in this regard. It's taken the "will" from this guy and replaced it with one loyal to Halkenburg instead of Benjamin in this case. To me this is much scarier than just getting possessed because now Shikaku's knowledge and ability can be used against Benjamin and it would take a little longer to figure out if he's being manipulated or not. And even harder to remove him if he has the power to steal abilities as well, as well as knowledge of nen combat he could also teach Halkenburg's men. I think they might have just found a private tutor of sorts.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:31
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theres no way the king would have that crazy speech about karma and sacrifice without harkenburgs hatsu coming from the nen beast my guess next chapter is that either hisoka or silent majority shows up and ruins whatever escape plan melody and co. cooked up, or we see tserriendnich with an even more bonkers hatsu thats his own because theres too much wanking with him
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Sep 29, 2018 06:41
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the viz chapter came out and halkenburgs hatsu is 100% coming from his nen beast
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Oct 1, 2018 22:45
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that kind of blurs the definition of what a hatsu is, then.
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Oct 1, 2018 22:47
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seems pretty cut and dried, nen beast awakens from the jotaro jail headshot, he gets a bullshit hatsu from it edit: we've seen hatsus being gifted to people and also hatsus being changed on whims, this isnt that crazy compared to some past stuff double edit: i also re-read some chapters last night and halkenburg only got silver at the world championships, once again the fanlations fail everyone drjuggalo fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 22:51
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Also, the nen beasts from the pot are already really weird, so I don't see a big problem there.
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Oct 1, 2018 22:55
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:that kind of blurs the definition of what a hatsu is, then. If you think about it , it's hatsu-ception. Someone created the pot with a hatsu, which serves to give out nen beasts, who can have hatsu-like effects (like the teleport gate or the are you free? Bear) or in this case, a hatsu-like effect of giving a hatsu to his owner!
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Oct 1, 2018 23:17
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I think my problem was I didn't realize princes could ever get in touch their Nen beasts so much as just be passively protected by their effects we might see some poo poo if dudes keep "awakening" and unlocking their Nen beasts' abilities
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Oct 1, 2018 23:19
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With time other princes may start innately understanding their nen beasts powers. Which will really help Tubeppa and Zhang Lei.
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Oct 2, 2018 05:21
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I'm not sure how that stuff might go; I was looking up info on the nen beasts and their abilities again, and of the ones we've seen, by far most of them are partially or completely passive or independent of the user, or only affect other people. The ones that explicitly do things the owner of the beast can use: Halkenberg: Obvious one. It's basically a hatsu for him, in addition to the other stuff it does. Fugetsu: It makes a tunnel and Fugetsu crawls through it to teleport. That's it; of the ones we know stuff about, only those two have abilities that the owners themselves definitely invoke and/or interact personally with. If you want to speculate for possibilities beyond this, then without taking huge leaps you also get: Zhang Lei: The wheel rewards people who meet certain requirements while having a coin; presumably doing what Zhang Lei wants or helping him are among those requirements. He might even be able to use the coins himself, though this seems unlikely. Tubeppa: While it needs a partner and she herself can't interact with or see it, she can presumably still use its creations, so if she learns how it works she could also work with and direct her beast's "partner". Tyson: The "fairies" are collecting aura from the people they latch on to for something, and it indirectly encourages people to follow Tyson's teachings by making those who do so/are more familiar with her book happier, along with having an unknown harsh punishment for people who break the one rule. We have no idea what it's actually gathering aura for, though. Past that, without all new abilities or information the beasts' abilities are all passive and/or autonomous, or just complete unknowns. Camilla, Luzurus, and Momoze's beasts all have/had manipulative abilities that activate when the target meets the right conditions, Marayam's also does its own thing to protect the boy and those around him that it trusts, Sale-Sale's was completely passive, and Benjamin's, Tserriednich's, and Kacho's beasts are all unknowns beyond the second one "marking" people by wounding/drawing blood from them. Woble's is also unknown; at first it looked like another autonomous protector/killer, but then Silent Majority was revealed to kill people the same way as those early deaths so Woble's nen beast may not have actually done anything yet. Either way, thus far Halkenberg's beast directly granting him abilities rather than just being a bodyguard and effectuator of its owner's desires is unique. This is probably due to his personality and such influencing it; he wants to pretty much start a revolution, and sees it necessary to be directly involved, regarding standing by instead of taking action the same as him personally committing whatever awful things happen while he's not involved. Ergo, it made him a power he personally directs and uses, while also protecting him and such so he can do what he needs to. He doesn't need a beast that's just going to protect him and do everything for him while he rules, he needs one that will enable him to personally lead his desired revolution. Which leads into not one but two other subjects I've also wanted to post about, how Halkenberg's a really good character and I'm glad there wasn't an "actually his principles and ideals are fake, he's another monster" twist like some people were predicting, and how the beasts all reflect their owners on multiple levels, in both their appearances, their behaviors, and their powers, in really neat ways. This current post is long enough though, so I'll do those things later. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 07:16
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Roland Jones posted:Which leads into not one but two other subjects I've also wanted to post about, how Halkenberg's a really good character and I'm glad there wasn't an "actually his principles and ideals are fake, he's another monster" twist like some people were predicting, and how the beasts all reflect their owners on multiple levels, in both their appearances, their behaviors, and their powers, in really neat ways. This current post is long enough though, so I'll do those things later. On the one hand, this absolutely makes Halkenberg the type of character who's more likely to survive. On the other hand, he's had just enough character development that Togashi could kill him impactfully
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Oct 2, 2018 09:16
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Its mentioned Halkenburg is bffs with Tserriednich. That might suggest hes a poor judge of character, though its also possible that tserriednich is just very charming and could have fooled anyone. Even in the latter case, though, his complete misjudgement of tserriednich could be dangerous. Im expecting that tserriednich will survive until very late in succession war and will rack up one of the highest kill counts so theres a good chance he'll go after halkenburg at some point
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Oct 2, 2018 09:49
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Last show I saw where the psychotic one racked the highest body count in a Battle Royale-style tourney was bad, so hopefully at least Tserriednich proves to have more going on than "psychotic nen genius".
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Oct 2, 2018 10:02
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halleys comet posted:Its mentioned Halkenburg is bffs with Tserriednich. That might suggest hes a poor judge of character, though its also possible that tserriednich is just very charming and could have fooled anyone. Even in the latter case, though, his complete misjudgement of tserriednich could be dangerous. Im expecting that tserriednich will survive until very late in succession war and will rack up one of the highest kill counts so theres a good chance he'll go after halkenburg at some point Oh yeah, that's not a good thing, but given what we've seen of Halkenberg now, it's pretty clear that he's not friends with Tserriednich because he's actually A-OK with misogynistic serial killers. Remember that Halkenberg's ideals and personality led to him clashing with his family a lot (among other things, he's Camilla's youngest brother, with Luzurus and Tubeppa being his other direct siblings), and his open criticism of Kakin's government had assassins after him since he was a teenager. Possibly younger, since he transferred out of the country at some point in grade school, the specifics unstated. Also, the only princes younger than him are Kacho, Fugetsu, Momoze, Marayam, and Woble, who'd have all been really young children or not born yet at all prior to his being shipped out of the country, and thus probably not company he was interested in at that age. So, his only friend among his family being Tserriednich, who we've seen is very good at hiding his true self when he cares to, and who also probably would have actually liked Halkenberg himself or at least acted like he did since Halk's a fellow genius and, well, not a woman, makes a lot of sense really; guy probably had very, very few friends, and most of the royal family members older than he is are obviously terrible, which would have left him vulnerable to everyone's least-favorite charismatic butcher. Which, to combine all that with this post: Tunicate posted:On the one hand, this absolutely makes Halkenberg the type of character who's more likely to survive. Is a big part of why he's an unfortunately likely person to fall late in this; not only is he, despite the hosed up world he grew up in and the manga he's a character in, a genuinely moral and principled person, he's also the one the younger princes have been pinning their hopes on, according to Oito back when she explained all this to Kurapika. While that situation may have changed, I doubt that Halkenberg's "awakening" is going to have him just trying to off the kids, even if he's realized that he's going to have to actually fight his older siblings and their minions. So if he dies, that's not only a likable character getting killed off, but also a dramatic reduction in the chances of the innocents making it out of this alive too, making it doubly-terrible. And if it is Tserriednich who pulls it off, it'd be an effective way to bring him back into things when thus far he's, perhaps surprisingly, been content to mostly keep to himself and learn nen rather than butcher his siblings. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 10:09
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unfortunately, it doesn't look like halkenburg decided to participate in order to clear out some of his adult siblings and give the kids a chance. he's in it to win it, for the sake of the country rather than the sake of his young siblings. now that they are all stuck in this kodoku ritual those two goals are mutually exclusive. it's just that the whole shared will thing isn't quite so powerful if halkenburg starts doing evil for the greater good poo poo. on the bright side, he probably wouldn't actively go after the children until the shitbags up top had been taken care of.
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Oct 2, 2018 10:19
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We don't really know what's up there; he's participating now, but there's still levels to that, and Nasubi himself said the interpretation of his words is itself part of the contest. Also, Oito said the younger princes and their servants had things set up so that if they didn't survive then the details of the succession contest would be leaked, poisoning any attempts at reform by Halkenberg before they can begin. You're not going to have a great movement fueled by idealism and righteous anger if everyone knows that the leader/figurehead of it was complicit in murdering his underage siblings to take power, after all. Halkenberg's chosen to fight, but that doesn't mean he's not fighting his own way, and even Nasubi seems to recognize that deciding what a king is is part of being a king and such. He didn't challenge Halkenberg's final goal of eliminating the crown, after all, just his lacking the will to do what is necessary to achieve that goal and to make the hard, necessary decisions to see it through. And, hosed up a person he is, he does have a point that a leader will sometimes have to make hard decisions. But killing some defenseless kids because you were told to isn't one of those choices, it's just doing an awful thing because someone else said you need to. Arguably, even by Nasubi's evil standards letting the kids live is a better indicator of being a good king, between deciding what victory and kingship is rather than being easily influenced or controlled, the massive political and societal instability that'd ensure due to the things mentioned above if they were killed, and so on. Nasubi might not like it, but he's made it clear that he's going to accept whatever the succession war's results may be and that it's not "his" anymore. If Halkenberg wins in a manner like this, well, it just shows that Halk's way actually is better than that of his siblings like Benjamin, etc. I don't think that's how things will actually end, mind, because sadly I think that Halkenberg's a likely late casualty; I'm just arguing that his being willing to fight in the war in general and do... Whatever his power does exactly, to his siblings' men doesn't mean he's all-in on slaughtering his family. Benjamin seems to think so, but Benjamin's a guy who's all about the baby murder, so his perspective shouldn't be taken without question.
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Oct 2, 2018 10:41
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The face of a merciful man.
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Oct 2, 2018 10:45
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Oh no.
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Oct 2, 2018 10:48
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Hate-Senpai posted:The face of a merciful man. I mean, if he were smiling or whatever, that'd be a lot worse; most people aren't gonna look happy after trying to kill their evil father, then themselves, before having their beliefs challenged and them deciding to participate in a battle to the death among people, many of whom are family members. (He also had a much less scary face in the later panels; Halkenberg looking monstrous from the perspective of the paranoid and mortally terrified Shikaku makes sense.) Regardless, I'd say that Halkenberg's powers actually working is a pretty good sign that he's not going to be gunning for the kids; it works by amplifying the aura of his men if they possess a shared will and mission, with Halkenberg being part of it like all the others. As we've seen, it's working pretty well right now, despite Halkenberg having shifted from avoiding the succession war to actively participating. Given that his men follow him despite the risk because they genuinely admire him and believe in his vision, it seems unlikely that they'd all immediately hop aboard the infanticide train; that is the kind of thing that would cause significant disunity in their group, I'd imagine. They' seem to be presenting a rather united front, in fact. Also, the ability has been heavily hinted to have a powerful backlash, possibly even taking the prince's life, if certain terms are broken, and breaking Halkenberg's moral code seems like the most likely possibility there. We're not seeing anything like that yet, and presumably such a heavy restriction can't just be changed by Halkenberg deciding he's now okay with something he used to be vehemently opposed to. Presumably, baby murder was one of the things he was against, and is still against at that. Assuming that Kurapika and the others who were speculating on this subject weren't just completely off-base, Halkenberg and/or his men actually trying to kill the younger princes would most likely hurt or even kill them as well, which seems like something of a problem if the way he's planning to win the succession war is indeed by being the last one alive. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 11:16
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I think the Nen beasts granted by the pot can be pretty powerful because they have a condition on them: they are granted in a temporal way, as you only obtain them for the battle royale, and participating in the battle royale means you have a 13/14 chance of dying. With that restriction, it's much easier they can give great hatsus like in Halkenburg case.
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Oct 2, 2018 11:58
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the king still has his nen beast. they are only temporary in the sense that all but one person who receives a beast has to die. i doubt anything good happens if they try to disrupt the ceremony, though it's not like anything good happens if they go along with it either.
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Oct 2, 2018 12:05
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