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Wheat Loaf posted:After R2 runs off looking for Obi-Wan, C-3PO hides in the corner because he's afraid Luke will beat him. Literally the first thing the Trade Federation does in TPM is send Silver C3PO to the Jedi because they are afraid of getting Jedi'ed to death.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:24
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Grendels Dad posted:Literally the first thing the Trade Federation does in TPM is send Silver C3PO to the Jedi because they are afraid of getting Jedi'ed to death. That was a legitimate political act - they knew that the Jedi were bigoted against droids so they were essentially insulting them by sending a droid to serve them.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:35
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Wheat Loaf posted:That was a legitimate political act - they knew that the Jedi were bigoted against droids so they were essentially insulting them by sending a droid to serve them. They expressed fear of being tortured, so they sent someone they didn't mind being tortured. This is made explicit in a comedic scene where both Trade Federation representatives turn to the droid and the droid visibly goes "welp, gently caress!" She is very aware that she might die, and her survival is played for laughs when she emerges from the chamber. Edit: Also, the Jedi didn't give two shits about droids. "Bigoted" is a hilarious misinterpretation on how the Jedi view them. They just don't care. Grendels Dad fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 23:39
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Cnut the Great posted:[Re: Dune] I'm not sure how you could meaningfully deconstruct the hero's journey as presented by Campbell without fundamentally denying individual human agency. The (original) Dune series is about exactly that, though? Paul goes on a traditional Hero's Journey in the first novel, but then succumbs to a prescience trap in the second: He's seen his own future completely, including the "choices" he will make when the time comes... meaning he has no choice. As Emperor he already holds sway over all humanity. As a prescient Emperor he would eliminate choice and agency for all humanity. So in his last moments of being able to choose anything before he locks himself on a path he's already seen to the end, he abdicates and gives himself up to the desert. He spends the rest of his life as a heretic, preaching against all he achieved. Literally deconstructing his own Hero's Journey, while losing agency. Leto II literally denies agency to all of humanity (and himself) for 1500 years, that's the premise of God Emperor.
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Sep 28, 2018 23:41
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galagazombie posted:Have you seen the News lately? One of the most studied and funded fields these days is creating AI's that act and think human but won't be actually free-willed. The sex robots are going to be amazing Discounts will be available with Amazon Prime
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Sep 28, 2018 23:45
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This is just shameful: https://twitter.com/THR/status/1045756296002187264 On the bright side, we get to laugh at bad Star Wars films for the next three years.
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Sep 29, 2018 00:35
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Jedi certainly express the prevailing culture's bigotry against droids, but why would they be insulted to be served by a droid? Serving's what (they believe) droids are for. The thing that rustles their jimmies on the Trade Federation ship is that they're being made to wait a very long time. If a droid's programming could make a droid obedient, there would be no need for any of the other clearly depicted means of making droids obey.
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Sep 29, 2018 00:37
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Slutitution posted:This is just shameful: Why not enjoy the good ones instead?
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Sep 29, 2018 00:40
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Slutitution posted:This is just shameful:
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Sep 29, 2018 00:42
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You know, I don't think I ever heard Kennedy's name mentioned before Last Jedi came out. Force Awakens came out, everyone liked it; Rogue One came out, everyone liked it; and all the time, nobody ever said anything about Kathleen Kennedy. I'm not sure why it's only come out all of a sudden with Last Jedi. Surely they'd reserve the blame to Johnson if they didn't like it when Kennedy was producing the movies they liked already? In any event, Kathleen Kennedy will never produce another movie as good as Congo, so that's that. Irony Be My Shield posted:I thought you'd be happy, if they got rid of her you'd have to find another woman involved in the making of Star Wars films to blame for their failings. No, it's fine. Kelly Marie Tran isn't quitting. 
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Sep 29, 2018 00:50
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Wheat Loaf posted:Force Awakens came out, everyone liked it Nah.
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Sep 29, 2018 00:56
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Zoran posted:Nah. "Everyone" is exaggeration, of course, and perhaps opinions of it have changed in the interim, but I don't think it is controversial to say that the reception was positive in the majority when it was released. The point remains.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:03
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Surely we all know that more star wars fans liked TFA than disliked it. This is so clearly obvious that nothing needs to be done to substantiate such a claim. Merely making the claim is enough.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:06
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force awakens was received positively at first but i remember nothing but derision for rogue one
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Sep 29, 2018 01:06
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mandatory lesbian posted:force awakens was received positively at first but i remember nothing but derision for rogue one Should have been the other way around.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:07
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jivjov posted:Surely we all know that more star wars fans liked TFA than disliked it. This is so clearly obvious that nothing needs to be done to substantiate such a claim. Merely making the claim is enough. Indeed so - consider how much of the more pedestrian criticism of Last Jedi turns on dissatisfaction with how it followed up the mysteries Abrams introduced (or was imagined to have introduced vis-a-vis the question of Snoke's backstory) in the preceding movie. mandatory lesbian posted:force awakens was received positively at first but i remember nothing but derision for rogue one I recall Rogue One being well-received. At least anecdotally, I remember when I saw it in the theatre, my dad (who I consider to be a reasonably benchmark for the "average moviegoer") was gushing about how much better than Force Awakens it was and that's a sentiment I saw repeated subsequently. I don't know if people have changed their minds about it.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:09
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jivjov posted:Why not enjoy the good ones instead? I enjoyed Rogue One.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:12
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Of course it goes without saying that Kennedy will probably leave anyway after Episode IX bombs.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:14
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Wheat Loaf posted:I recall Rogue One being well-received. At least anecdotally, I remember when I saw it in the theatre, my dad (who I consider to be a reasonably benchmark for the "average moviegoer") was gushing about how much better than Force Awakens it was and that's a sentiment I saw repeated subsequently. I don't know if people have changed their minds about it. i just remember a lot of people going it was too bleak or too long which i find to be dumb arguments anyway so if it was just me being in a closed sphere and not popular opinion thats all fine then
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Sep 29, 2018 01:20
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Slutitution posted:This is just shameful: kennedy being gone wouldn't change anything
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Sep 29, 2018 01:24
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My best guess is that the new Star Wars being poo poo has little to do with Kathleen Kennedy either personally or professionally, but a lot to do with the various incentives in play when you’re a multinational media conglomerate in a capitalist hellscape.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:28
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Wheat Loaf posted:Of course it goes without saying that Kennedy will probably leave anyway after Episode IX bombs. Ah yes, I forgot that you can see the future and know that a movie that comes out over a year from now has bombed
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Sep 29, 2018 01:30
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jivjov posted:Ah yes, I forgot that you can see the future and know that a movie that comes out over a year from now has bombed It is admittedly possible that I could turn out to be wrong (and my view may evolve over the coming year) but I doubt it.
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Sep 29, 2018 01:35
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galagazombie posted:Have you seen the News lately? One of the most studied and funded fields these days is creating AI's that act and think human but won't be actually free-willed. We're obviously far off from making our own C-3PO but you can see it heading there. You’re ignoring that there a whole host of debates going on about robot ethics concurrently with AI development that nobody has any good answers to, which is okay because we’re nowhere close creating to human-like intelligence, nor to understanding how the human minds emerge. Your argument is basically that if you manage to trap a human mind in a body they have no control over that isn’t slavery, when it sounds to me like the worst kind of slavery.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:02
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I thought you'd be happy, if they got rid of her you'd have to find another woman involved in the making of Star Wars films to blame for their failings. The hottest of takes.  Brother Entropy posted:kennedy being gone wouldn't change anything They would still be overproduced trash, yes; however, getting rid of her would undoubtedly improve the current failing business model of the Disney Star Wars films by reinvigorating faith in the series. TLJ and SOLO: A Star Wars Disaster have illustrated a blatant downward spiral for the franchise, with the latter becoming the first outright flop in Star Wars history—it's amazing to me how they extended her contract after that.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:24
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Might have something to do with the overwhelmingly positive reception to TLJ, and the fact that Solo's shortcomings aren't entirely the fault of the film itself, but rather the release calendar and marketing
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Sep 29, 2018 02:26
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Slutitution posted:They would still be overproduced trash, yes; however, getting rid of her would undoubtedly improve the current failing business model of the Disney Star Wars films by reinvigorating faith in the series. oh no
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Sep 29, 2018 02:27
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How many more women must be sacrificed to rekindle the faith of the lost.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:29
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jivjov posted:Might have something to do with the overwhelmingly positive reception to TLJ, and the fact that Solo's shortcomings aren't entirely the fault of the film itself, but rather the release calendar and marketing  euphronius posted:How many more women must be sacrificed to rekindle the faith of the lost. Laura Dern tried this in TLJ, and it failed spectacularly.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:35
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I believe people of all races colors and creeds should be allowed to make the bad films. This distinguishes me from kennedy, who only hires honkey men to direct them
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Sep 29, 2018 02:35
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In her defense she’s only chosen the director for 8 films, it’s a small sample size Edit: Sorry, 10 films if you count the honkeys she hired and then fired No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 02:45
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jivjov posted:Might have something to do with the overwhelmingly positive reception to TLJ, and the fact that Solo's shortcomings aren't entirely the fault of the film itself, but rather the release calendar and marketing Let’s be real, if TLJ had actually had overwhelmingly positive audience reception, Solo would have certainly done better than it did, inauspicious release date notwithstanding.
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Sep 29, 2018 03:30
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Nuh-uh, you guys, my counterfactual totally beats your counterfactual.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:54
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It's gonna be okay, they're bringing out the heavyweight influencers online to bring solo into the black on home media sales https://twitter.com/Kripparrian/status/1045822569176272896
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Sep 29, 2018 05:14
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No Mods No Masters posted:It's gonna be okay, they're bringing out the heavyweight influencers online to bring solo into the black on home media sales Haha, Kripp soul seems to be dying just from playing Hearthstone, so I gotta watch him pretend to be excited about Solo
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Sep 29, 2018 06:48
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can't wait for ep ix to bomb, a thing that will definitely happen because everyone pays attention to my nitpicky fandumbing on the internet
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Sep 29, 2018 07:01
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If only there were some precedent for a star wars movie with nonexistent levels of excitement from core fans bombing
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Sep 29, 2018 07:15
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Also, while racist/sexist animus is obviously abhorrent and moreover a stupid reason to hate a star wars movie (even if that movie is bad anyway), lol if you think people motivated by racist/sexist animus are a miniscule neckbeard minority with no purchasing power or influence in tyool 2018
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Sep 29, 2018 07:25
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It's hard to quantify, but to give one example I feel pretty confident that alt-right people have long since eclipsed and dominated the jivjovian "if it says star wars on it I buy it and like it" crew as far as noteworthy subsets of the star wars audience go
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Sep 29, 2018 07:33
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Cnut the Great posted:His programming tells him he has to do what he's told. C-3PO never once disobeys an order in the entire series. He does lodge initial objections based on his default programming parameters, but he never makes a choice not to do what he's told. If this were an important theme, you'd think it would have been illustrated even once. Never once is a droid faced with the sort of deep, character-defining choice between good and evil that most of the main human characters are. He evinces emotions, sure, he can be angry with R2-D2 in one moment and sympathetic to him in another, but to have a range of programmed emotional states is just not the same as having a choice between fundamental natures. He feels cruel towards R2-D2 and so he acts cruelly towards him, he feels sympathetic so he acts sympathetically. A human being can feel cruel yet choose to act sympathetically, or feel sympathetic and choose to act cruelly, subordinating their emotional impulses to a higher order of consciousness. But C-3PO has only one nature, and we never see evidence of any other one which is fundamentally opposed yet fully within his grasp were he to make the choice. He never has a moment as Luke does at the conclusion of ROTJ, where we see clearly that Luke feels a consuming hatred for his father yet still manages to pull himself back toward a better nature through sheer force of will. So droids - fictional representations of technology, by your reckoning - are childlike, impulsive beings ruled by their emotions and incapable of using logic and discipline to overrule their baser instincts. Because of this, morally it's appropriate that they have no rights and are subject to the harshest discipline should they ever step out of line.
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Sep 29, 2018 08:46
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