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DeathChicken posted:Downpour was one of those games for me where almost *all* of my problems with it came from the combat. Fix that and it's an entirely different game. I was okay with the story, I thought the environments ranged from okay to pretty good. None of it matters much since that kind of game shouldn't be throwing a parade of monsters that can stunlock you from a mile off and none of your weapons can do much against, yet you're usually required to fight them anyway. I didn't care much for Downpour when it came out. Then one day I took some masking tape and covered up the Silent Hill title on the game case and wrote 'The Suffering 3" on it instead. After that I enjoyed it a lot more.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:15
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Suffering 1&2 had better combat
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Sep 29, 2018 05:11
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Downpour is the definition of a game I wanted to love but just couldn't. I loved the ideas behind it, I liked the story, I liked the focus on exploration and the little sidequests that give you glimpses into the hosed up lives of the other inhabitants of Silent Hill but the execution of those ideas was completely off. I still rank it higher than Homecoming though simply because it had bad ideas and executed them incompetently.
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Sep 29, 2018 09:25
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Resident Evil 6 is basically three fairly different (in atmophere and pacing) games packaged which each other, each of whom makes for some surprisingly fun "beer and pretzels" local co-op. Oh noes, the zombie got me! Quick, come over and help! - I can't, this dog is eating me! - What are you even good for!? Just, you know, don't expect it to be scary.
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Sep 29, 2018 10:11
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Yeah pretty much. Leon and Helena's campaign is the straight Resident Evil run, more normal zombie fighting throughout, you got your loopy maze area, crazy traps in a chunk of areas, Leon cracks wise and you fight the big mastermind at the end. Chris and Piers's campaign is all action, all the time, they get the heavy hardware, they see the most of the commando enemies, two pretty neat vehicle sections and it's a more dramatic "BSAA Jake and Sherry's campaign is where all the setpieces are, starting in an eastern european civil war, outrunning an avalanche on snowmobiles, running from a tank in a chinese penthouse and going hand to hand with Leatherface suspended over lava. Ada (And Agent!)'s campaign gets to be it's own thing, originally meant to be solo with a co-op option patched in later, with sections you can potentially full stealth, a bunch more puzzles, helping the other protags in their campaigns from a distance. I like that silly game a lot.
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Sep 29, 2018 11:00
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Leon's campaign is hilarious with another player to experience the plot stupidity with. From Leon and Helena's decisions constantly ending with everyone around them getting horribly murdered (the church sequence being my favorite for this), to Simmon's obvious evil scheming going over everyone's heads, RE6 definitely had the lion's share of laughably-dumb plot beats to poke fun at. Chris' part of the game has its moments, too. "Follow my lead, and I'll make sure you get out of here alive!" *entire squad is immediately murdered by snakes and/or turned into bees* Just remember to approach the game as a brawler that happens to have guns in it, and abuse the hell out of the dodge/counter system so you can do dumb poo poo like repeatedly-knee a charging meat-monster in the face or deliver a german suplex to Kane Hodder's 10-foot-tall cousin.
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Sep 29, 2018 11:26
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Resident Evil was at its peak the first time Leon suplexed a cultist and then smack talked a Spanish midget monster.
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Sep 29, 2018 11:58
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ChickenHeart posted:Just remember to approach the game as a brawler that happens to have guns in it, and abuse the hell out of the dodge/counter system so you can do dumb poo poo like repeatedly-knee a charging meat-monster in the face or deliver a german suplex to Kane Hodder's 10-foot-tall cousin. This isn't even an exaggeration when you're playing Jake, if you figure out that his hand to hand moves have one of those quick shot special interaction deals, you get a whole new line of moves too. You go from his normal kicks and the punch combo into uppercutting and leg sweeping and jump smashing dudes, like gently caress you giant grasshopper man, I have kung fu.
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Sep 29, 2018 12:20
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quote:Leon's campaign is hilarious with another player to experience the plot stupidity with.
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Sep 29, 2018 12:53
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The Ada campaign had some of the best internet drama. It launched as solo only which brought up many complaints of "WTF Capcom this is solo when the rest of the game is coop? How could you do this you evil people!?" so they patched in Agent so it could be coop. Of course then people started getting it after it had been out awhile and on sale which brought "LOL Capcom look how lazy they are Agent doesn't do anything at all. Lazy bastards" when he wasn't supposed to be there at all.
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Sep 29, 2018 13:06
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Cardiovorax posted:Resident Evil 6 is basically three fairly different (in atmophere and pacing) games packaged which each other, each of whom makes for some surprisingly fun "beer and pretzels" local co-op. Oh noes, the zombie got me! Quick, come over and help! - I can't, this dog is eating me! - What are you even good for!? its more like the House of the Dead series in a lot of ways, more arcadey and over the top
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Sep 29, 2018 14:07
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exploded mummy posted:its more like the House of the Dead series in a lot of ways, more arcadey and over the top
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Sep 29, 2018 14:16
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I just can’t forgive RE6 for making zombies scenery dressing you can’t interact with until they choose to leap up and grab you. I know these unmoving, bloodless corpses are enemies Capcom you drove this lesson into my head since ‘96 why the gently caress can’t I interact with them!
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Sep 29, 2018 15:10
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RE6's Mercenaries Mode is really drat good and its testament to how incompetent Capcom can be that they haven't released a standalone Mercenaries that covers the entire series on modern consoles and PC using 6's engine.
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Sep 29, 2018 16:56
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What is the Mercenaries mode anyway? I've only ever played the first Revelations and that had a Raid mode which, from my understanding, isn't the same thing as the Mercenaries mode.
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Sep 29, 2018 18:06
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I played as Sherry in RE6 
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Sep 29, 2018 18:10
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FirstAidKite posted:What is the Mercenaries mode anyway? I've only ever played the first Revelations and that had a Raid mode which, from my understanding, isn't the same thing as the Mercenaries mode.
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Sep 29, 2018 18:17
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I would throw down money in a heartbeat if Capcom blended Raid mode and RE6 Mercenaries, RE6 just feels good to run around and shoot in with how much fluid movement they give you.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:52
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"Fluid movement" is one way to put it. There's nothing quite like watching your partner play Helena and just having to ask "...why are you rolling around on the floor? - I don't know, but it's hilarious!"
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Sep 29, 2018 22:12
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FirstAidKite posted:What is the Mercenaries mode anyway? I've only ever played the first Revelations and that had a Raid mode which, from my understanding, isn't the same thing as the Mercenaries mode. It's a horde mode basically, but it's one of the most boring horde modes I've played.
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Sep 30, 2018 11:18
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FirstAidKite posted:What is the Mercenaries mode anyway? I've only ever played the first Revelations and that had a Raid mode which, from my understanding, isn't the same thing as the Mercenaries mode. Mercenaries is a time attack mode in which you fight against non-stop streams of ememies in themed environments, with your choice of a selection of characters with set armaments, melee moves and/or gimmicks. You extend time by finding the time pickups strewn about the level. These are in set locations, so eventually it comes down to nailing down a rough route through the maps and building your survival time up. However, it's still not that predictable and you can get thrown off pretty easily. I personally found it really fun, especially in a group environment. It can get the adrenaline going as you work to beat the clock while avoiding and combatting the incoming enemies. And then Dr. Salvatore spawns. It's more of an adrenaline/panic rush than psychological horror or anything, but it can still get the blood pumping, especially in a group. TL/DR: Think the first villiage fight in RE4 or the execution fight in RE5, except time attack, with pickups forcing you to move if you want to improve your score. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 12:18
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s.i.r.e. posted:It's a horde mode basically, but it's one of the most boring horde modes I've played. To be fair RE4 was one of the first games with a horde mode iirc
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Sep 30, 2018 12:38
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Len posted:To be fair RE4 was one of the first games with a horde mode iirc Yeah, that's true as far as I know. Pretty innovative in that regard.
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Sep 30, 2018 16:10
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I would say that Resident Evil 4 is an important game.
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Sep 30, 2018 16:51
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I have returned. It is with great pride and anticipation that I welcome you to this, the fifth year of our haunting celebration. Every year since 2014 I have lined up a minimum of 31 horror games to play and review during the month of October, and this year is no exception. The subtitle is not just a cheeky reference, either, as this year marks a turning point for my work. The majority of the games I’ll be reviewing have been graciously given by their developers or publishers for review purposes, and I’m also streaming a large number of the games on this list. For reviews, you’ll find a brand new one waiting for you every day at 8am PST starting tomorrow. I’m covering an excellent cross-section of major releases, indie gems, and general weirdness that should include something for everyone. Check the website daily for your horror fix! My streams are also horror-heavy this month, and if you’re interested in tuning in here’s the schedule: - Mondays (9pm PST) – The Evil Within 2 full playthrough - Wednesdays (9pm PST) – Indie Horror Night featuring 2-3 games from the list - Fridays (9pm PST) – Indie Variety Night including some horror greats from previous years You can find the main page for this eerie event on my website, where you'll also find links to my Curation Group, Discord, and all the other extremely online stuff I do. Or you can check this thread every day in October around 8am PST when I post my reviews here as well. Either way, turn out the lights and grab your safety blankets, because there’s a whole month of scares ahead!
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Sep 30, 2018 20:35
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My favourite time of the year is upon us! Who needs Christmas when you've got Spooktober?
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Sep 30, 2018 20:49
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Yay, it's (like) the Advent Calendar of the Damned! Good thing horror is a popular genre that doesn't need a big budget/dev crew so you'll never run out of stuff to review annually, eh?
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Sep 30, 2018 20:50
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There are roughly 1500 horror games on Steam so that is very much true, even if I need to start slumming it with RPGMaker creations and no-effort Unity horror games.
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Sep 30, 2018 21:04
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s.i.r.e. posted:It's a horde mode basically, but it's one of the most boring horde modes I've played. If you play it like a horde mode you'll suck at it. It's totally a time attack arcade trial that rewards daring play to maximize points. Unlike most horde modes which copy a lot from the tower defense games where you start with nothing and have to coordinate a defense, Mercenaries gives you a predetermined load out and encourages you to go all out. And that's a large part of its appeal, the characters all play differently so you'll get your generic heroes with a balanced kit then you'll get a guy with a bow and a knife that really demands mastery of the game's systems.
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Sep 30, 2018 21:16
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Resident evil has never really been scary. The closest was in 2 where Tyrant chases after you which for the time was unprecedented. 3 had nemesis but by then the audience is familiar with the gimmick. The last horror game I’ve played that made me uncomfortable was Soma. I agree not being able to fight back doesn’t work. Either get rid of the monsters (which I used a mod for) or give me some weak limited weapons. Deadspace 1 was great because you feel totally isolated everything is horrible and there is no escaping. The sequels are action adventure. In fact most “horror” games are action adventure in reality. It’s been years since I played it but system shock 2 was also good horror as I recall.
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Sep 30, 2018 21:21
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Too Shy Guy posted:even if I need to start slumming it with RPGMaker creations DropsySufferer posted:Resident evil has never really been scary. The closest was in 2 where Tyrant chases after you which for the time was unprecedented. 3 had nemesis but by then the audience is familiar with the gimmick. So, you know, good horror experience.
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Sep 30, 2018 21:59
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resident evil caters more towards panic than overall horror
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Sep 30, 2018 22:02
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System Shock is totally action adventure. There are scary moments because the atmosphere is really good and the villain is ever present but beyond the opening area the game turns into slower Doom.
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Sep 30, 2018 22:06
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I think the distinction a lot of writers use is horror Vs terror Horror is more visceral. Terror is more psyochihical. Terror is hearing something moving in the dark hallway. Horror is when it bursts through the door in all its glory. In the genre of horror you need to create this fine balance of horror and terror to show enough but not too much. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 22:06
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Of course, as people in this thread have repeatedly pointed out, there's a good reason for that, too: terror, by that definition, is great at building up atmosphere, but it's also very not there in terms of gameplay, because horror consists more of things and genre conventions that you actively interact with while terror consists of those that you don't. People sometimes have a hard time remembering that while we often treat all expression of a general genre like "horror" as equivalent, they really aren't. There are some things that work in pure writing that wouldn't work in a movie and vice-versa. Games suffer from the need for a special and distinct approach more than most media, because they're unique in being interactive while still trying to tell their pre-planned stories and convey the mood the designer intended. When giving the audience the ability to explore and interact with your work on their own terms, non-interactive elements suddenly become a whole lot harder to realize well. Look at how easy it is to kill the mood in a horror game just by accidentally including more backtracking and time to think and really look than the setpiece you've created can support. Creatures in the shadows that stay there permanently and never do anything quickly become comical instead of menacing. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 22:26
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Cardiovorax posted:I've been watching some videos by that HarshlyCritical guy who specializes in horror playthroughs and there's some surprisingly decent RPGMaker horror out there. Sure, it's all little pixel mans, but atmosphere and puzzle design really translates pretty well regardless of aesthetics. I remember a few he went through like the Strange Man games and Mad Father, so yeah they definitely exist. The only RPGMaker horror joint I've tried was Clandestinity of Elsie which was a pretty poor attempt to cram Silent Hill 2 into the engine.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:00
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Too Shy Guy posted:I remember a few he went through like the Strange Man games and Mad Father, so yeah they definitely exist. The only RPGMaker horror joint I've tried was Clandestinity of Elsie which was a pretty poor attempt to cram Silent Hill 2 into the engine. I think of these, I'd call Mermaid Swamp the most genuinely scary and well-made game, while Crooked Man had the most tension and adrenaline. All of these are worth giving a try, if you're interested in that kind of thing.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:06
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My own arbitrary and probably useless criterion for a horror game is "does this product intend to shock or disturb the player as a goal unto itself." There are plenty of games that create moments of unease or use disturbing imagery, but most often this is done in service to some broader narrative or gameplay element. I think a horror game has to have high player tension as its own inherent design goal.
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Sep 30, 2018 23:30
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This is a rough draft of part of my effortpost so I don't lose it. It's pretty readable in this form? In thinking about the earlier discussion, I believe horror depends on gaps in cognitive processing- leaning on, or bypassing, direct, normal cognition to deliver affect. Basically, are you not thinking consciously at all, but feeling a strong affective response (disgust/horror/etc)? That's indirect processing. Are you unable to think about anything else? Are you really dwelling on a thought, or feeling, or a set of clues you can't quite put together? That's direct processing. Note a lot of this isn't unique to horror, but it's a good context for consideration. I've listed a set of categories of horror delivery mechanisms, what kind of processing they call on, how they work and some examples. There is category overlap, ofc. Stated (shortform direct processing. Low requirement, passive.) What it says on the tin. The horror is effectively someone telling you to be scared. This communicates the source of the intended affect directly. It's...not very effective at instilling affective responses, but is necessary for communicating information and frameworks for affective work. Can be in text, audio logs, cutscenes. Zombies exist. Konrad is still in Dubai. The murderer tried to get into the car, but couldn't, and left his hook on the door. You killed your wife. Wesker is going to release the virus. People haven't dealt with issues from freshman philosophy classes and actually think the plot of SOMA is deep. Reflexive (high direct, low indirect) Jump scares. You know what these are. A cat in a locker! A giant head! A zombie dog through a window! A positive SOMA review! Visceral (high direct, low indirect) Phobic objects, imagery or activities that trigger unconscious and uncontrolled aversive responses of any number of kinds. Stick your hand in that toilet. Reach into that hole. Wade through that deep dark water. Read that positive SOMA review. You know you want to. Usually tied to agency. "cheap", but not cheap like Reflexives. Often paired with jump scares. See also: all of Deepnest. This type of horror has a bunch of roles in combat, from decaying bodies looming out of the darkness to that sound effect when you stamp on a numb body. You know the one. Combat in a horror game can be gross or empowering, and it frequently depends on how powerful or threatened you are. A challenge in combat settings is that once you master agency over a source of visceral threat, it stops being viscerally threatening. Monsters in Resident Evil may be gross and impressive the first time you see them in a cutscene, but these days we're so used to blowing them away that the whole crawling body horror parasite display has lost a lot of punch. Atmospheric (high indirect, low direct) Stylistic elements of horror derived from multiple indirect cues. No specific point, but a mood is attributed without direct cause. Everything is rotted. The fog is eating away at things, and I'm disoriented. Everything in this church is on fire. There's no future for this world. It's hopeless. So many of these posters think SOMA is "deep." Limited direct combat implications beyond cues provided by resource scarcity. Implicative (realization-based) (high direct, low indirect) Unstated but implied, often derived from symbolic elements or plot structures. Specific recognition or ideas. Realization might be at a controlled moment (they look like monsters to you?) or at any time via multiple hints (Happy 31st birthday!). There's lots of this form in Pathologic. Everything is rotting and failing...but also, everything is part of a single weird corpse metaphor. Players make this realization at different times. All these SOMA posts...maybe I'm at fault for not liking its plot? No! It can't be! This form has limited combat mechanic implications beyond cues provided by resource scarcity. It can still be informed by combat systems, of course. Undertale does a ton of this: [You tell a joke about a kid who slept in the soil.] The Big Two: Agentic Horror (either/or? Is that right?) Horror caused by player actions and their consequences. This is a form of horror that's especially powerful, and also requires and depends upon the media consumer's self-association with the protagonist. The player's investment in the action or decision, and their self-identification with the player character/protagonist, are necessary for this to hit home. You did this. What have you done. Undertale, Spec Ops: the Line, and other games do this. Note that it doesn't have to be large-scale! I think one of the most effective examples of agentic horror is the practice, in early Silent Hill games, of needing to stamp on enemies to kill them- of the sounds the enemies make, the bloody footprints that result, and the knowledge that making the kill pushes you toward a bad ending. Resource scarcity and the "survival" parts of survival horror tap into both agency and atmospheric elements. "Oh god, I wrote all these snarky lines about SOMA in my effortpost and now no one will engage with its substance." Anti-Agentic Horror (either/or? Is that right?) Player helplessness in the face of clear need. The counterbalance to agentic horror, where control or agency is taken away and things are suffered. Tied in deeply with the various high indirect forms above. Mechanically, there's something to note about combat implications here. The limitations of combat systems (intentional or not) also feed into this. There's a weird synergistic aspect of this with agentic horror; anti-agentic horror occurs as an outcome both through things like fail state kill animations, but also by the loss or expenditure of resources. As with agentic horror, this is stronger when the player identifies with the character/protagonist in the moment. Abuse of non-agentic horror drives the player out of relation to the protagonist. Silent Hill, Fatal Frame, the old Resident Evil games, had this in spades. When RE4 (or SH Homecoming) came out, the combat mechanical elements of this were diminished greatly. The challenge was mostly how, and whether, other sources and methods of horror (agentic, anti-agentic, pachislot, whatever) could take their place. This is the horror I'm going to feel when, after using up all my words on this post, I have to read your responses. Todo: add more combat contexts. Provide examples for Alien: Isolation, because holy hell what a masterpiece. Add conclusion about Flow Theory and intensity scaling in modern game design principles. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 02:54
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Too Shy Guy posted:I have returned.  yaaay! Thanks for being one of my favorite parts of October!
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Oct 1, 2018 03:16
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