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chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

I maintain they should just put the warcrimes in but have em have realistic effects. So Kai-Shek could gently caress up China, Germany could wreck its own manpower worse, etc.

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WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013


"هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)
Spain is another really good tutorial country, its war is a lot less one sided than Italy's, but early enough that if you gently caress up it's not annoying to restart.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

Poil posted:

There are a lot of mods which replaces Hitler with someone slightly less unpleasant.

Honestly they aren't even necessary with the "Oppose Hitler" stuff now. Although does that require Waking the Tiger? I'm not sure. But the German focus tree completely allows you to give Hitler the boot and still end up following more or less the same gameplay path with regards to who you declare war against and so on, just with less Nazis.

I find France is a good starter country - you're on continental Europe so you don't really have to worry about naval warfare much (especially since being in the allies means that the UK will basically handle it for your), with good preparation you can set yourself up in a strong defensive position to weather the initial German invasion, and eventually start pushing them back at your own pace. The main downside to France is they don't have anywhere NEAR the industrial capacity that Germany does, so it's hard to really build up a lot of tanks or planes, but you can still do pretty well with just infantry.

Plus if you're feeling aggressive, you can choose to challenge the Germans when they take the Rhineland or Czechoslovakia decisions, putting you on the offensive and catching Germany before they've had time to really build up their forces.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 28, 2018

Nicodemus Dumps
Jan 9, 2006

Just chillin' in the sink

The Cheshire Cat posted:


Plus if you're feeling aggressive, you can choose to challenge the Germans when they take the Rhineland or Czechoslovakia decisions, putting you on the offensive and catching Germany before they've had time to really build up their forces.

I don't know how much patches have changed things, but I got all the France achievements by challenging Germany at Czechoslovakia.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Buglord

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Spain is another really good tutorial country, its war is a lot less one sided than Italy's, but early enough that if you gently caress up it's not annoying to restart.

You can also choose the 1939 start and avoid the civil war all together. Once easy border against Vichy France. You can usually sit out the war until youre ready. Another option I would suggest is the U.S, but with how confusing naval invasions are for new guys, its a massive pain in the arse to land in Europe if the allies haven't secured a beach yet.

e: also how do I form the EU as France? It's not like I can gobble up the Low Countries as a democracy.

StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




buglord posted:

You can also choose the 1939 start and avoid the civil war all together. Once easy border against Vichy France. You can usually sit out the war until youre ready. Another option I would suggest is the U.S, but with how confusing naval invasions are for new guys, its a massive pain in the arse to land in Europe if the allies haven't secured a beach yet.

e: also how do I form the EU as France? It's not like I can gobble up the Low Countries as a democracy.

Commie shift, conquer the pigs, become the pigs again.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
I just noticed that when you switch to unaligned Germany, these two focuses get new names that are a bit more appropriate.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I've been giving democratic Germany a go myself, it's pretty rad how it escalates into WW2 between a beefed-up USSR and a weak Germany plus friends.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
Can’t wait to spam polders in the new DLC

E: reclaim the entire North Sea!

Molentik
Apr 30, 2013

North Sea? You mean the Wet Sadistic Bastard don't you?

buglord
Jul 31, 2010

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Buglord
Of course Luxembourg joins the allies right after they capitulate. I'm starting to feel like forming the EU as France is going to be luck based.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

Gort posted:

I've been giving democratic Germany a go myself, it's pretty rad how it escalates into WW2 between a beefed-up USSR and a weak Germany plus friends.

Try Unholy Alliance next for angry dictator men taking over the world basically un-opposed.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

Tahirovic posted:

Then maybe you need more people working on it? The problem here is that every time you redo one countries tree it affects all the others, the last couple reworks show this nicely. Italy and Germany can get really weird with the trees of Hungary and the Czechs.

Dude, we've been looking for a third content designer for HoI for more than a year now. We had 6 applicants who proceeded to the work test stage. Six. And it's not like we have people in the company just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

MiddleOne posted:

Try Unholy Alliance next for angry dictator men taking over the world basically un-opposed.

For a slightly less op, but similarly fun route, play as Germany and side with China against Japan. Once you get them as an ally, you have access to limitless manpower but they aren't instantly going to steamroll the world, you need to invest time and resources to get China up to speed. Plus, they have cool helmets too.

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004

Bang! You're dead.

ArchangeI posted:

Dude, we've been looking for a third content designer for HoI for more than a year now. We had 6 applicants who proceeded to the work test stage. Six. And it's not like we have people in the company just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

You can't tell us something like this then leave out why each of them never panned out - what did they do wrong to get the boot?

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

ArchangeI posted:

Dude, we've been looking for a third content designer for HoI for more than a year now. We had 6 applicants who proceeded to the work test stage. Six. And it's not like we have people in the company just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

what you need a history nerd for the 1936-1956 time period? where do i send my resume and thesis

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

ArchangeI posted:

Dude, we've been looking for a third content designer for HoI for more than a year now. We had 6 applicants who proceeded to the work test stage. Six. And it's not like we have people in the company just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

Every game dev company has this problem it seems and they all seem to think they pay "above market" when they all pay dogshit.

It's something of a problem across tech in the current labor market, but game companies are particularly out of touch with what people are worth.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

ArchangeI posted:

Dude, we've been looking for a third content designer for HoI for more than a year now. We had 6 applicants who proceeded to the work test stage. Six. And it's not like we have people in the company just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
Regardless of the negative posts here I hope you keep posting. I think you guys are doing an awesome job, but I have some perspective because I work in the tech industry and know how hard it can be. If I wasnt stuck in Raleigh, NC, I would apply.

Daeren
Aug 18, 2009

YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED

Raskolnikov38 posted:

what you need a history nerd for the 1936-1956 time period? where do i send my resume and thesis

If they're talking about the position I think they are, I applied to the same one and got automated mail back saying they didn't have a fit for me, so good luck :v:

(Granted my portfolio of published material is primarily event/dialogue writing and not mechanical design so that's probably what got me disqualified, and it looks like they rewrote the position description sometime between now and when I applied to make that much clearer.)

Daeren fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Sep 29, 2018

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

Psychotic Weasel posted:

You can't tell us something like this then leave out why each of them never panned out - what did they do wrong to get the boot?

Very few people apply for HoI to begin with. When you are sent a work test, you can choose which game to do it for. CKII and Stellaris are the frontrunners, followed by EU4, then a whole lot of nothing, then HoI4. So of the candidates for any of the content design positions that were sent a work test over the last year, only half a dozen or so decided to take the HoI test. 3 of those proceeded to the interview stage, the rest had work tests that were simply...bad. No interesting choices to be made in gameplay. Spelling errors galore. Bugs that would be obvious if they had played their submission even once. Of the rest, one got hired and immediately poached by another project that had higher priority, one raised red flags in the interview, one starts Monday.

Personally I'd wish we gave more people a shot (because I certainly didn't fit the classic profile of a game dev when I was hired) but I can't do much more than whine to HR and Management about it any chance I get, which I already do. Apparently hiring for HoI has been a nightmare since its inception. The sane people usually want one of the other projects and you really don't want the guy with very strong opinions on how the SS should be better represented.

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!






It’s incredibly encouraging to hear that actually and I’m really glad you posted it.

Arven
Sep 23, 2007
Do you guys hire people who work remotely or do they have to move to Sweden?

I'm a Sys Admin with an educational background in programming and I have a a cousin in Sweden, and I'm looking for an exit plan if things get Trumpier...

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004

Bang! You're dead.

ArchangeI posted:

Very few people apply for HoI to begin with. When you are sent a work test, you can choose which game to do it for. CKII and Stellaris are the frontrunners, followed by EU4, then a whole lot of nothing, then HoI4. So of the candidates for any of the content design positions that were sent a work test over the last year, only half a dozen or so decided to take the HoI test. 3 of those proceeded to the interview stage, the rest had work tests that were simply...bad. No interesting choices to be made in gameplay. Spelling errors galore. Bugs that would be obvious if they had played their submission even once. Of the rest, one got hired and immediately poached by another project that had higher priority, one raised red flags in the interview, one starts Monday.

Personally I'd wish we gave more people a shot (because I certainly didn't fit the classic profile of a game dev when I was hired) but I can't do much more than whine to HR and Management about it any chance I get, which I already do. Apparently hiring for HoI has been a nightmare since its inception. The sane people usually want one of the other projects and you really don't want the guy with very strong opinions on how the SS should be better represented.

I appreciate the candid answer - I was worried it would be something like "everyone we spoke to had an unhealthy obsession with Germany" or the like, but the actual reason somehow seems so much worse... I get why people would want to be part of the company's new flagship product but the early/mid 20th century is such a fascinating period in time, and so well documented, you'd think there would be more people interested in the subject who would be a good fit.

Oh well. Keep up the good fight.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

Arven posted:

Do you guys hire people who work remotely or do they have to move to Sweden?

I'm a Sys Admin with an educational background in programming and I have a a cousin in Sweden, and I'm looking for an exit plan if things get Trumpier...

Freelancers work remotely (although some of them come by the office and work here every once in a while for a couple of days), but a few freelancers have moved into full on-site employment. Not sure if we offer programmer freelance positions but I think we have a couple of on-site programmer positions open. I would suggest you brush up on your A* algorithm implementation and keep an eye on the career website.


Psychotic Weasel posted:

I appreciate the candid answer - I was worried it would be something like "everyone we spoke to had an unhealthy obsession with Germany" or the like, but the actual reason somehow seems so much worse... I get why people would want to be part of the company's new flagship product but the early/mid 20th century is such a fascinating period in time, and so well documented, you'd think there would be more people interested in the subject who would be a good fit.

Oh well. Keep up the good fight.

Stellaris and CKII simply offer so much more breadth of possible content. You can go from making events about the adventures of a single science ship and its intrepid cat captain all the way up to a galaxy-spanning conspiracy against the mushroom people. In HoI you tell the story of a war still in living memory where every side was different shades of awful and even the good guys burned down entire cities. It probably also doesn't help that the WWII nerd community has an entirely deserved reputation of wehrabooism, so the sane people, when given the option, decide to go somewhere else instead. I know a number of my colleagues reacted with astonishment when I said that I wanted to work on HoI when I started here. It did have a slight undertone of "but you are...not crazy!?"

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

ArchangeI posted:

Stellaris and CKII simply offer so much more breadth of possible content. You can go from making events about the adventures of a single science ship and its intrepid cat captain all the way up to a galaxy-spanning conspiracy against the mushroom people. In HoI you tell the story of a war still in living memory where every side was different shades of awful and even the good guys burned down entire cities. It probably also doesn't help that the WWII nerd community has an entirely deserved reputation of wehrabooism, so the sane people, when given the option, decide to go somewhere else instead. I know a number of my colleagues reacted with astonishment when I said that I wanted to work on HoI when I started here. It did have a slight undertone of "but you are...not crazy!?"

Yeah the problem with WW2 as a setting is it's really the last conventional modern conflict between superpowers. The cold war was all proxy wars where you had one superpower using stealth bombers to destroy mud huts, and if it ever went "hot" it would have just been nukes everywhere and not much in the way of tank maneuvers. So as a setting for a wargame it's very interesting because it's the most recent example of military doctrine and technology put into practical use.

The problem is that the politics that led into WW2 are super hosed up, and often times people are really only interested in the strategic aspect because they're way too interested in the political aspect. Hence why you still see a lot of "but why doesn't HoI simulate the war crimes? I'm just interested in realism, it's not because I have holocaust fantasies".

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
A HoI version of Advance Wars would be rad. Just make up some colorful and distinct sides and have them murder one another. Maybe make the sharply dressed guys in jackboots with skulls plastered everywhere a tolerant democracy just to gently caress with wehraboos

E: die skullz are tradition!

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
I really can't think of anything worse, as a symbol, than a skull.

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

Yeah actually after spending 10 minutes looking at the profiles of people commenting on random HOI4 steam workshop mods I think this game should be removed from the store, deleted from the internet, and everyone who has ever played it have all their electronics seized and banned from ever using computers again forever.

Interviewing real humans interested in this game must be a nightmare of unimaginable proportions.

Defeatist Elitist
Jun 17, 2012

I've got a carbon fixation.

Strudel Man posted:

I really can't think of anything worse, as a symbol, than a skull.

Really want to make a mod that adds a rat's anus as a symbol.

Cerebulon
Mar 29, 2010

Destroyer of Worlds*
(*No worlds were harmed in the making of this title.)

Yeah, having worked on content for a WW2 game, the hardcore fans are either a little weirdly but harmlessly into Shermans, or they're the kind of person who private messages you to ask if you can recreate all your content with the player controlling the Germans instead and profiles like this:

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

i suppose its too late to apply for a position focused on dutch military history...

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe

ArchangeI posted:

Very few people apply for HoI to begin with. When you are sent a work test, you can choose which game to do it for. CKII and Stellaris are the frontrunners, followed by EU4, then a whole lot of nothing, then HoI4. So of the candidates for any of the content design positions that were sent a work test over the last year, only half a dozen or so decided to take the HoI test. 3 of those proceeded to the interview stage, the rest had work tests that were simply...bad. No interesting choices to be made in gameplay. Spelling errors galore. Bugs that would be obvious if they had played their submission even once. Of the rest, one got hired and immediately poached by another project that had higher priority, one raised red flags in the interview, one starts Monday.

Personally I'd wish we gave more people a shot (because I certainly didn't fit the classic profile of a game dev when I was hired) but I can't do much more than whine to HR and Management about it any chance I get, which I already do. Apparently hiring for HoI has been a nightmare since its inception. The sane people usually want one of the other projects and you really don't want the guy with very strong opinions on how the SS should be better represented.

I can understand it's hard to get people for it, but I feel like focus trees are one of the cheapest (manpower) ways to give HoI more replayability in SP. Having tried some focus tree mods from the steam workshop I can see why it could be hard to hire sane people for it tough.
It just feel weird how in the current patch some trees crash other nations trees, there seem to be a lot of missing checks and bypass conditions. It feels a bit like EU4 where systems got put on top of each other from one DLC to the next and it just doesn't work properly.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

Tahirovic posted:

I can understand it's hard to get people for it, but I feel like focus trees are one of the cheapest (manpower) ways to give HoI more replayability in SP.

Have you tried making a focus tree? It's an eye-opening experience. We usually plan 2-3 weeks of research and design, 3 weeks to implement and script, 2-3 weeks for localisation and polish, per tree. I think there is a grand total of one feature in Waking the Tiger that was more manpower intensive than the focus trees, and that is the Field Marshall/General system. I like the system as a storytelling tool and for giving the player an idea of what they can do, and I do think we are getting better at streamlining and planning the development process, but hand to heart if we did HoI 5 I'd want us to take a good hard look at the focus tree system and take the axe to it simply because they are such a nightmare to make.


Pryor on Fire posted:

Yeah actually after spending 10 minutes looking at the profiles of people commenting on random HOI4 steam workshop mods I think this game should be removed from the store, deleted from the internet, and everyone who has ever played it have all their electronics seized and banned from ever using computers again forever.

Interviewing real humans interested in this game must be a nightmare of unimaginable proportions.

Those people usually don't make it that far.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Tahirovic posted:

I can understand it's hard to get people for it, but I feel like focus trees are one of the cheapest (manpower) ways to give HoI more replayability in SP.
Just FYI this makes you sound really arrogant, entitled, and dumb. Have you tried making one? Not only does it have to be historically accurate, it has to include a-historical paths that make sense, it has to be balanced, it has to be scripted/coded for any/all conditionality it includes, it has to be scripted and coded so each focus's effect works properly, it has to be tested, it has to have the AI programmed to use it correctly in History focused games, special effects need to be added (like the American Senate or Dutch flooding), each of the icons need an icon.... the list goes on

All this and I don't even work for Paradox/have never made one.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Defeatist Elitist posted:

Really want to make a mod that adds a rat's anus as a symbol.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
Focus trees are easy to make if you’re making a <Insert Country> is Stronk tree. No balance or research needed, and you even have Steam Workshop to bug hunt for you! Free labor!

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

I now realize that I should have simply gone with "Source your quotes" when quoting Tahirovic.

@Tahirovic I wasnt trying to be a jerk with that post but I also work in software and customers indignantly saying "This should be easy!" will always get an eyeroll from me.


ArchangeI posted:

Have you tried making a focus tree? It's an eye-opening experience. We usually plan 2-3 weeks of research and design, 3 weeks to implement and script, 2-3 weeks for localisation and polish, per tree. I think there is a grand total of one feature in Waking the Tiger that was more manpower intensive than the focus trees, and that is the Field Marshall/General system. I like the system as a storytelling tool and for giving the player an idea of what they can do, and I do think we are getting better at streamlining and planning the development process, but hand to heart if we did HoI 5 I'd want us to take a good hard look at the focus tree system and take the axe to it simply because they are such a nightmare to make.
I am sorry to hear that it is that much of a pain. Coming from someone who likes to play history based games in an a-historical way, I absolutely love them and am really glad that they are a thing. I greatly prefer it to event-based DHEs that the previous games ran on. Now, if you guys came up with an even better system, so be it, but I just wanted to point out how they helped breathe new life into the franchise for me.

bees everywhere
Nov 19, 2002

Ever since I first uploaded my 1984 mod to the workshop I've been getting random friend requests from people with swastikas and Pepe memes all over their steam profiles. Not just a few, either. On the other hand, the most requested features I get are for more gameplay options for the resistance countries.

Also I'm sure you guys appreciated the SS cosplayer at PDXCON.

Edit: Yeah in my experience focus trees are a pain in the dick, sure you could slap one together in an afternoon but then you would have an unfun and unbalanced mess, it took me weeks to make a couple decent ones that still don't come close to the complexity of the DLC trees.

bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Sep 30, 2018

really queer Christmas
Apr 22, 2014

Started working on a focus tree a couple days ago and I now hate them and wish for their death. They really are quite awful to make.

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Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I now realize that I should have simply gone with "Source your quotes" when quoting Tahirovic.

@Tahirovic I wasnt trying to be a jerk with that post but I also work in software and customers indignantly saying "This should be easy!" will always get an eyeroll from me.

I am sorry to hear that it is that much of a pain. Coming from someone who likes to play history based games in an a-historical way, I absolutely love them and am really glad that they are a thing. I greatly prefer it to event-based DHEs that the previous games ran on. Now, if you guys came up with an even better system, so be it, but I just wanted to point out how they helped breathe new life into the franchise for me.

That's kinda the thing tough, Focus trees can be a-historical, meaning you don't need to put 2 months into research. They don't all need to have event systems either.
If I want accurate historical information I'll go read a book on it. A basic nation specific focus tree just needs to represent the general situation in that country and have some alternate paths. It's about varied game play.
Yes it's cooler with events and the like, for the first playtrough, these days I don't even read most of them and frankly some of the event systems are more hassle than anything else.

One very strong thing for focus trees are claims and alliances, political shifts, the ecnonomy, not the name of the 7th industrial advisor.

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