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1 October 1944 We open a big month with a small kill: the minelayer Ajiro, torpedoed by USS Snapper in the Bonins.
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Oct 1, 2018 19:18
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| # ? May 17, 2024 02:05 |
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This game just assumes the European theatre goes exactly as it did in real life right? That is to say, the Allies aren't being intentionally inactive because of some variable 'Europe First' timer that hasn't run down?
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Oct 1, 2018 20:38
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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. I'm going to switch a few Tojo factories to franks. I'm upgunning engine production for the 45s, but it's going slower than I would like. Grey: regarding math: You do realize that: A: in order to build: 428 Betties 407 Jills 46 Sallies 46 Jacks you also need to produce 1401 Mitsubishi Ha-32 engines per month !! The fact that you have succesfully delivered ... 4 betties and 1 jill , tells me you are building approx 5*30/2 = 75 engines per month the number of engines should match the number of planes * the quantity of engines they use Hint: To expand engine/airplane production, you need a minimum of 20k supplies in the city To save on the Ha32 engines: produce Nells B: auto victory : it's 1944 : you'll need a lot more than twice the allied points for auto victory (I think *4) . twice the allied points is ONLY in 1942 kind regards Barman
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Oct 1, 2018 21:20
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barman posted:B: auto victory : it's 1944 : you'll need a lot more than twice the allied points for auto victory (I think *4) . twice the allied points is ONLY in 1942 lmfao
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Oct 1, 2018 23:28
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Smash your face against Chungking and call it a moral victory. This AI is going nowhere.
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Oct 1, 2018 23:35
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I thought it was inverted, 4x dropping down to 2x as you're expected to be sucking poo poo as the years grind you down.
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Oct 1, 2018 23:39
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Gary Grigsby posted:17.2 AUTOMATIC VICTORY
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Oct 1, 2018 23:44
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Load the game as the Allies and manually disband all the units in Chungking--they're all basically "ghosts" anyway, since in any normal wargame they'd be out of supply or straight up would not exist. It's only because of this game's stupid, STUPID modeling that they're causing you trouble.
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Oct 1, 2018 23:47
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barman posted:
I think you got it mixed up. According to manual you need four times as much in 1943, three times as much in 1944, and in 1945 twice as much. If by any chance Grey doesn't get Allies to admit that he is a superior military leader by 1946, based on the score, Allied victory condition would deteriote by two step at the very least, even more if more than 2 A-bomb are dropped.
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Oct 1, 2018 23:50
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Jesenjin posted:I think you got it mixed up. According to manual you need four times as much in 1943, three times as much in 1944, and in 1945 twice as much. You are right : I got it mixed up: [b]The game can last as long as March 1946. The game awards victory points for various actions (ships sunk, aircraft shot down) and can end early if one player achieves double by (1945-), triple (1944), or quadruple (1943) the victory points of his opponent. Certain conditions (such as the use of Atomic Bombs) can shift victory from Major Allied to Major Japanese victory. That's leaves us with A: we've got a lot of idle airplane factories, full of planes, waiting for the few engines which are produced
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Oct 2, 2018 00:27
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So, switching around engine factories is required, something in Chunking perhpas to tweak the game model to something like an infinite stream of zombies (I think that's what it already does).. Also any chnace for followup strikes on the Essexes or you're not in position?
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Oct 2, 2018 04:35
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barman posted:
True, but remember this screenshot is from the 1st, so that's 5 planes built on the first day of the month, not the whole month. Davin Valkri posted:Load the game as the Allies and manually disband all the units in Chungking--they're all basically "ghosts" anyway, since in any normal wargame they'd be out of supply or straight up would not exist. It's only because of this game's stupid, STUPID modeling that they're causing you trouble. Hmm, this is tempting, but I'd need to do a vote to see if people would think I'm cheating or not. I'm in two minds over this. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScfHi3MaXOKeucSha7URSQwdNa9yI8wsnCvcVRUNfyXSgojUg/viewform?usp=sf_link
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Oct 2, 2018 05:23
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does that site allow you to submit multiple responses
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Oct 2, 2018 05:39
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was the Japanese sub fleet as decimated as the German sub fleet? i don't remember hearing much about their sub fleet besides the subs that had planes on them.
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Oct 2, 2018 05:57
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jaegerx posted:was the Japanese sub fleet as decimated as the German sub fleet? i don't remember hearing much about their sub fleet besides the subs that had planes on them. Which ones? The Japanese Navy's submarines or the Japanese Army's Submarines? Both fleets got annihilated similar to the German fleet, I think they proportionally took heavier losses, I dont think any of the ones around during the Pearl Harbor attack survived the war.
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Oct 2, 2018 06:14
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Grey Hunter posted:
Realistically a city does not have infinite means to instantly repair itself and spawn new units. It's been under seige for well over a year and has had months of round the clock bombing and artillery. The place should be a smoking ruin with a few hundred thousand infantry with random weapons on verge of starvation, not holding out with half a million fully armed folks and fully intact industry and nigh unlimited forces infinitey respawning. I'm game for removing everything from there. It's not gamey if you're addressing a huge flaw in the game itself that is of a scale that's pretty huge thing (the city should not be able to support half a million troops but it does because game engine)
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Oct 2, 2018 06:19
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The Siege of Leningrad lasted what, two and a third years? That was of a similar scale.
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Oct 2, 2018 06:26
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TheDemon posted:The Siege of Leningrad lasted what, two and a third years? That was of a similar scale. 872 days according to wikipedia, but remember there where several cases of supplies being brought into the city when the lake froze. There hasn't been an allied base within 100 miles of Chungking for what 2 years now? Realistically everyone in that city should have starved to death by now.
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Oct 2, 2018 07:00
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Yeah, realistically Japan's best move to playing the WW2 game was not to play in the first place, but that misses the point. WitP is a poo poo game precisely because you have to be gamey as gently caress to win. What fun is a game wherein you have to deliberately cheat in order to win? Every LP of WitP where the Japanese player wins against the AI involves that player either doing cheesy stuff or deliberately breaking the game engine in order to do it.
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Oct 2, 2018 07:09
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Grey Hunter posted:True, but remember this screenshot is from the 1st, so that's 5 planes built on the first day of the month, not the whole month. I think that's what barman was pointing out. 2 Betties got delivered in a single turn, so you would expect to get around 2 * 30, or 60 total, over the course of a month. Thing is, the number in your "Production Rate" column says that you should be making over 400 of that model over the course of a month. Another way to look at it: Compare the Betty production to the Tojo production one row down in that screenshot. Your factories can churn out roughly 400 of each model per month according to the "Production Rate" column. If all's well, you should see roughly equal numbers of those planes being delivered each turn. According to the "This Turn" column, 11 Tojos and 2 Betties were actually delivered. That indicates something's holding up your production on the Betties, and quite significantly. As a disclaimer, I've never had the courage to try and decipher the production system by actually playing as Japan, so I could be reading the interface completely wrong 
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Oct 2, 2018 07:13
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everydayfalls posted:872 days according to wikipedia, but remember there where several cases of supplies being brought into the city when the lake froze. There hasn't been an allied base within 100 miles of Chungking for what 2 years now? Also there was a functioning industry within Leningrad that was able to keep on producing things to some extent and the Germans never attempted to actually fully invade the city - they mostly kept it under seige. And the Germasn never committed enough forces in the form of artillery and air forces to level the place - they were mostly focused on starving it out. Whereas Chunking has minimal heavy industry, has been under seige for two years, under constant bombardment and air attack, and been assaulted a few times. And the city is still intact as it can repair almost all damage overnight, has fully supplied and reinforced armies, several hundred planes, intact infrastructure and production despite the.. Rest of China being occupied or abandoned and no other significant forces about the entire country. Getting no support from the rest of the Allies as far as lend lease, supplies, airplanes, weapons. Yes, the city could definitely hold out (several major chinese cities did quite amazingly throughout WW2 despite the devastation the Japanese inflicted on them) but doing so fully intact with the rest of China occupied seems less than likely. It's a break of the game engine and (in my opinion) a very significant one that is worth trying to bypass as the only way to deal with it is to be gamey (permanentl yblockade the city and invade India?) which doesn't seem like something the IJA would do. This isn't like a few random divisions, this is half a million or so troops.
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Oct 2, 2018 07:48
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While "Chunking is an invincible self-replicating fortress" is a dumb way to simulate it, the idea that you could just raise Japanese flags all over China then leave the place ungarrisoned and suffer no ill-effects as you march off to invade India is possibly more stupid. I think if you did cheat to conquer Chunking you'd need to make up some rules about stationing your army around China to keep it from revolting.
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Oct 2, 2018 08:17
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For what it's worth, I voted in favor of removing forces from Chungking, but I also acknowledge that Grey has also effectively won a "victory by gross ahistorical divergence", given that it's October 1944 and the Allies are still dicking around in Rabaul. To take Chungking "fair and square" would require beelining for it from the start of the game, taking it so that the Chinese don't have anywhere to respawn, and then cleaning up the rest of the subcontinent, which strikes me as just as "gamey" as doing it this way. Gort posted:While "Chunking is an invincible self-replicating fortress" is a dumb way to simulate it, the idea that you could just raise Japanese flags all over China then leave the place ungarrisoned and suffer no ill-effects as you march off to invade India is possibly more stupid. WITP already handles this: every city requires a certain amount of Assault Value to be sitting in it, or else the occupying side will start losing VPs, in order to simulate partisans and resistance
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Oct 2, 2018 08:31
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Chinese bases already have a minimum AV garrison value to simulate this. Ignoring this AV garrison requirement means the slow but certain eroding of all industry and base facilities in most of china.
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Oct 2, 2018 08:44
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[quote="Grey Hunter" post="488500802"] True, but remember this screenshot is from the 1st, so that's 5 planes built on the first day of the month, not the whole month. Actually, the fact that the "This Turn" production is 31 planes and the "Month ToDate" production is 67 planes, seems to indicate that the month to date production is for 2 days The point I am trying to make is, that you seem to have an engine crises. Maybe another approach would be to look at this the other way around : Check what engines you do have in the pool and build/expand the best plane with that engine. So you can use the HA32 for the Jills and retool the Sally, Betty, jack factories to planes which use engines that you actually produce The Grace is a dive bomber and a torpedo bomber and uses the HA33, just like the Judy3 , the Jake and the Dinah. Expanding HA33 engine factories and discontinuing the jake and dinah wouldbe an option The Judy 2 still uses the HA 60 engine, maybe you have a lot of HA 60s in te pool By the way : there is a great application to monitor your production and all other stats in this game : WITP AEtracker You can download it from the matrix WITP AE forum http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2236936
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Oct 2, 2018 09:07
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Saint Celestine posted:the Japanese Army's Submarines The what now?
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Oct 2, 2018 11:38
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Moon Slayer posted:The what now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_submergence_transport_vehicle There we also Japanese Imperial Army Aircraft Carriers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Akitsu_Maru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Kumano_Maru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Nigitsu_Maru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamashio_Maru-class_escort_carrier
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Oct 2, 2018 11:48
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Moon Slayer posted:The what now? It makes sense, if you think about it. How else was the Japanese Army going to handle naval operations? Rely on the Navy?
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Oct 2, 2018 12:21
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I'd skip manually disbanding stuff in Chungking. I'm in favor of mashing our mans against it because woo big numbers but beyond that the game engine seems to no longer be able to deliver something fun or interesting and making it cough up an arbitrary desired outcome state by messing with its internals seems like it wouldn't add anything. At that point just call it a day. I.e.:dublish posted:Smash your face against Chungking and call it a moral victory. This AI is going nowhere.
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Oct 2, 2018 12:34
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How would deleting troops from Chungking even work? When you load a save as the other side, the game processes the turn before it lets you do anything. So, loading the game as the Allies and then deleting the troops would involve running at least one turn with Japan under AI control, depending on if a second turn needs to be run as the Allies to get the troop deletions to stick. This means that the AI would have a chance to gently caress with everything GH has set up as Japan, including possibly teleporting units around.
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Oct 2, 2018 13:27
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Can't the save be edited to reflect that? I remember such actions were pretty simple in Paradox games.
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Oct 2, 2018 13:33
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alex314 posted:Can't the save be edited to reflect that? I remember such actions were pretty simple in Paradox games. Gary Grigsby saved games, and anything that isn't officially covered by the editor, are all notoriously difficult to edit. The games aren't built on the same "open" architecture as Paradox.
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Oct 2, 2018 13:40
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Bold Robot posted:How would deleting troops from Chungking even work? When you load a save as the other side, the game processes the turn before it lets you do anything. So, loading the game as the Allies and then deleting the troops would involve running at least one turn with Japan under AI control, depending on if a second turn needs to be run as the Allies to get the troop deletions to stick. This means that the AI would have a chance to gently caress with everything GH has set up as Japan, including possibly teleporting units around. Disbanding something does not require you to run the turn. As for AI control, the game allows you to hotseat, so you could set the game to 2 players.
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Oct 2, 2018 13:40
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I just want to see Grey roll into Chunking and turn right around and march them into Siberia/India
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Oct 2, 2018 13:48
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:I just want to see Grey roll into Chunking and turn right around and march them into Siberia/India This
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Oct 2, 2018 14:05
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I'm on the side of significantly weakening Chungking. It should still have a whole bunch of enemy dudes there, but their supplies should be in terrible shape and the city itself should be a mess. IIRC the city was pretty big even in WW2 days (like, close to a million people) so it's not going to be easy to dig out even starving, ill equipped enemies, but it shouldn't be an immovable bulwark. Does the ground combat take sieges/starvation into account? Or is it nebulized so even if a 400,000 man army is stuck with absolutely zero supplies they just get a combat malus rather than keeling over dead?
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Oct 2, 2018 16:25
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They get - supplies. Which is worth about 1/10th the +terrain bonus.
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Oct 2, 2018 16:37
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   Take that!   There is more fighting over Rabaul.   Things go quiet again. I think I have enough troops at Manus to try attacking again, the air supply has allowed them to rebuild their numbers.
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Oct 2, 2018 16:38
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How many troops spawn when invading Japan as the allies?
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Oct 2, 2018 16:43
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not enough
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Oct 2, 2018 17:03
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