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I feel like the ahistorical focus trees need to have more research backing them than the historical ones, because otherwise they won't feel authentic to me. A big part of the draw of doing crazy stuff in history games is "maybe it could have really happened". I like to wiki country leaders, generals and government advisors in this game to see what happened to them in real life.
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Sep 30, 2018 18:39
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SHISHKABOB posted:I feel like the ahistorical focus trees need to have more research backing them than the historical ones, because otherwise they won't feel authentic to me. A big part of the draw of doing crazy stuff in history games is "maybe it could have really happened". I like to wiki country leaders, generals and government advisors in this game to see what happened to them in real life. Well and some of the more interesting counter-historicals were at least proposed and seriously considered, like returning Northern Ireland in exchange for Ireland joining Allies or the Franco-British Union or Trotskyism Ascendant or or or or
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Sep 30, 2018 19:36
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I appreciate all the work that the devs put into the focus trees- they make the game a whole lot more interesting and give players more of a context as to what the nation should focus on or do even in ahistorical situations than previous games in the series.Pvt.Scott posted:A HoI version of Advance Wars would be rad. Just make up some colorful and distinct sides and have them murder one another. Maybe make the sharply dressed guys in jackboots with skulls plastered everywhere a tolerant democracy just to gently caress with wehraboos The Darkest Hour semi-expansion to HOI2 had a scenario intended for multiplayer set up pretty close to that, where every nation was great-power sized and was either a member of the Axis, Allies, or Comintern (except for comedy-option Stalinist Tannu Tuva, which was independent and surrounded by a fascist Russia and a democratic China). A while back I tried sketching out what an equivalent mod would look like, but a lot of questions I couldn't answer came out of it. What's an appropriate size for each nation in a fun MP game? Do you make them 20-30 regional powers or 16 world powers, or a mix of world powers, regional powers, and one-state minors? Do you try to clump allies next to each other, or spread them out so everyone's bordering another faction? Should it be 3- or 4- sided? (etc.)
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Sep 30, 2018 20:30
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 This is my biggest annoyance with the game. Poland ceded Danzig to Germany, and then Germany went to war with the Benelux countries, and has proceeded to lose almost four times as many troops to the Allies. The AI has really got to stop doing this thing where it just constantly throws itself into pointless meat grinders and wastes all its manpower and equipment.
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Oct 1, 2018 00:15
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SHISHKABOB posted:
Sixteen years old when I went to the war, To fight for a land fit for heroes, God on my side, and a gun in my hand, Chasing my days down to zero, And I marched and I fought and I bled and I died, And I never did get any older, But I knew at the time that a year in the line, Was a long enough life for a soldier,
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Oct 1, 2018 00:33
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I don't think I've ever seen any kind of semi-historical invasion of Russia because the moment Germany declares war, the Russians attack across the entire front and there aren't any territory changes until one side has exhausted the other. After that, it's a relatively quick walk to the capital and you have a 1.5 million to 10 million casualty result.
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Oct 1, 2018 00:37
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It'd completely gently caress up the Japanese invasion of China if they allowed ai armies on the defensive to not attack constantly. It's the only reason Japan even has a small chance of winning.
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Oct 1, 2018 02:43
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the AI suiciding endlessly into hopelessly overwhelming defenses (and the issue where germany never takes the USSR by surprise) is a symptom of HOI's very powerful god view and limited fog of war. the player has a ton of information about enemy strength and fortifications, and intelligent play obviously involves making use of that info. however, if the AI used that information correctly, the results would almost always be ahistorical, both on the micro level (bad decisions were made based on bad or no intel all the time) and on the macro level (the USSR would never even come close to losing a war). it's less of a problem if the player gets ahistorical results, since changing the course of the war yourself is the main fantasy.
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Oct 1, 2018 02:51
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Cease to Hope posted:the AI suiciding endlessly into hopelessly overwhelming defenses (and the issue where germany never takes the USSR by surprise) is a symptom of HOI's very powerful god view and limited fog of war. the player has a ton of information about enemy strength and fortifications, and intelligent play obviously involves making use of that info. however, if the AI used that information correctly, the results would almost always be ahistorical, both on the micro level (bad decisions were made based on bad or no intel all the time) and on the macro level (the USSR would never even come close to losing a war). it's less of a problem if the player gets ahistorical results, since changing the course of the war yourself is the main fantasy. I think the issue with the USSR might be mitigated by making the purge effects more severe/last longer. As it stands now, if the USSR purges in 1936, it will have lost pretty much all of the org penalties by 40/41. Since org is the primary factor in determining how long a unit can fight, both offensively and defensively, maybe the system could be changed to be more like what Nationalist China has to do to reform its army. So instead of time healing the purge effects, make it so the soviets need to spend military experience to reduce their penalties to total org and org regen. This still fits with the theme of the "lessons of war" focus and encourages the soviets to fight smaller pre-wars against the Fins, send volunteers to spain, etc in order to build up the necessary military experience before the Germans attack. Once the Germans do attack, the soviets will be trading space for time as they build up exp to remove their maluses. If balanced right, it could be possible to have them mostly recover by winter of 41/42. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Oct 1, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 13:07
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Dramicus posted:I think the issue with the USSR might be mitigated by making the purge effects more severe/last longer. As it stands now, if the USSR purges in 1936, it will have lost pretty much all of the org penalties by 40/41. Since org is the primary factor in determining how long a unit can fight, both offensively and defensively, maybe the system could be changed to be more like what Nationalist China has to do to reform its army. So instead of time healing the purge effects, make it so the soviets need to spend military experience to reduce their penalties to total org and org regen. This still fits with the theme of the "lessons of war" focus and encourages the soviets to fight smaller pre-wars against the Fins, send volunteers to spain, etc in order to build up the necessary military experience before the Germans attack. Once the Germans do attack, the soviets will be trading space for time as they build up exp to remove their maluses. If balanced right, it could be possible to have them mostly recover by winter of 41/42.
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Oct 1, 2018 13:41
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Sunrise Invasion: As Japan, conquer Mexico then Europe before 1945. Have any of you actually managed this, if so how? My problem is I can't beat the US fleet up enough without having the resources from conquering China. If I take China first, I lose so much time that the WT is too high and the USA (who will always protect Mexico) joins the Allies. Ending that war quick enough to be able to conquer the rest of Europe (Truce timer) seems a bit impossible. Is there some gimmick strategy where you conquer Russia or someone first for more factories/resources ?
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Oct 1, 2018 14:21
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Tahirovic posted:Sunrise Invasion: As Japan, conquer Mexico then Europe before 1945. Attacking the USA first is the easiest way. To beat the US make planes to sink their boats and island hop to Hawaii and Alaska first thing, when the american fleets show up send a bunch of planes to hawaii and sink them. One big battle under your air superiority will crush their fleet and give you free reign to invade the west coast. In 1936 the USA will have less than a dozen divisions so you should have absolutely no problem landing on whatever port you choose or splitting up to hit every port on the West Coast. Then just land and march to Washington DC across land. If WT is kept low and you do it quickly enough the USA will not even join the allies, you generate less tension fabricating on the Philippines than on the USA directly so do that too. Enjoy having a million extra factories in mid '37 and conquer the world.
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Oct 1, 2018 14:41
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Love this game but the naval side of things is incomprehensible and I really hope they make it a bit more intuitive for MTG
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Oct 1, 2018 15:03
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ThomasPaine posted:Love this game but the naval side of things is incomprehensible and I really hope they make it a bit more intuitive for MTG What part gives you trouble? The naval simulation isn't good but it's fairly easy to explain.
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Oct 1, 2018 17:41
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If you have the potential for a massive naval industry (USA, Japan, UK, late game Germany) build carriers and light cruisers (and maaaaybe heavy cruisers). If you have a modest naval potential (Italy, France, Soviets, early game Germany) build battleships and destroyers. Very important: Research the appropriate main naval doctrine path to the end before fighting any battles.
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Oct 1, 2018 19:29
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 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1510768925
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Oct 2, 2018 02:35
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You should put a "swallow your drink before reading" warning on that, I almost made a mess.
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Oct 2, 2018 02:48
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I see they’ve studied the classics.
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Oct 2, 2018 15:30
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I know this is asked a lot, but does anyone have some tips for building infantry divisions? I'd like to actually complete a Japanese playthrough for once. Is line artillery really just useless now, or can it still be effective against the massive blobs of infantry in China? I keep running out of manpower as I slowly churn my way through the mainland.
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Oct 2, 2018 16:25
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Line infantry are defensive focused, they don't have great attack stats. Putting artillery on them does give them better attack stats, but it isn't as outstanding as it was before against other infantry. (Superior firepower makes it pretty decent still.) Ideally, your infantry either sits tight or assists in combat with other units, like tanks or, more pointedly for China, CAS. 20w support artillery while seizing the skies will do you no wrong. Maybe a few motorized or tanks for encirclement. Also in China's case just having tanks in general will help even in the lovely terrain, but you're also Japan so the factories are at a bit of a premium.
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Oct 2, 2018 16:42
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Tried to do a USSR vs all run. Cutting through Finland and Sweden to bisect Norway’s mountains is hella good, but I couldn’t crack. Copenhagen because they had tons of divisions and my navy got sunk while I tried to do a surprise landing near Kiel 
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Oct 2, 2018 17:18
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Jeremor posted:I know this is asked a lot, but does anyone have some tips for building infantry divisions? I'd like to actually complete a Japanese playthrough for once. Is line artillery really just useless now, or can it still be effective against the massive blobs of infantry in China? Since most nations will tend to have many infantry divisions for the purposes of holding lines, it's inefficient to spec all of your infantry to be both offensive and defensive. It's certainly possible, and nations like the United States have no problems doing it, but it's not efficient because you won't be attacking everywhere all the time. So, what you should be doing is designing at least two types of divisions, defensive and offensive. You can go even further and have fast defensive and fast offensive. The most important thing when fighting a war is the concentration of force, and in this case, force is the ability to break through other divisions and in order to do that effectively, you don't want to spread that across your entire front, you want it all in a couple provinces. Defensive is your typical infantry division which is 20 width, and has support brigades appropriate to what your industry can sustain and how many of them you intend to have. These divisions should not typically be expected to lead attacks, as they will sustain high casualties and experience significant equipment loss in the process (it's actually pretty expensive to sustain an infantry offensive across something like the eastern front as you will be bleeding guns, artillery, and whatever else you attach to them). This doesn’t mean you can’t or should never attack with them. In fact, you should use them to attack and pin enemy divisions in place while you attempt encirclements, or when you want to polish off pockets. The fast defensive unit is simply the exact same division, but with motorized infantry instead of foot infantry. Their job is to plug gaps quickly, follow tanks and occupy provinces and hold them while the tanks press on. Again, this doesn’t mean you can’t attack with them, you should use them to attack divisions that are trying to get ahead of your tanks, or escape from pockets but not expect them to lead spearheads. That is what the offensive units are for. Offensive units try to focus as much firepower and breakthrough as they can. These will be your most expensive units and you will have relatively few of them. They can range from 20-40 width and even more if you are making a division specialized in breaking fortresses, for example. Slow offensive units will be a combination of infantry and either loads of artillery (cheap) or loads of heavy tanks/heavy spgs (expensive). You can also make sort of fast offensive units by using cavalry with heavy tanks and a couple engine upgrades. These units are most useful in breaking strong points, but not exploiting them. The ultimate “slow” offensive unit has mechanized infantry with 1943 heavy tanks as these will be able to hit 8 km/h while overflowing on every stat. Think Soviet Guard divisions or Waffen SS/Panzergrenadiers. Fast offensive units are typically your medium tank divisions. They have some motorized (and later mechanized) infantry and loads of tanks something like 3 mot inf brigades and 6+ tanks is common. These units will have crazy high breakthrough and as a result will take relatively few casualties on the attack. If you add on maintenance and hospital support, they will actually be the most resource efficient division in the game, so long as they are attacking. If they also have more armor than the enemy is able to pierce, they become 3x more effective. (this also applies to slow offensive with heavy tanks)
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Oct 3, 2018 03:46
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Oh man you are so loving lucky I just purged all my officers. If I hadn't killed off all my generals you would be loving dead, dude. If my young men were all starving to death you would be so sorry.
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Oct 3, 2018 07:29
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Line artillery absolutely is not useless now. Support artillery became a no-brainer on every division, but there's no reason you can't have both - an infantry division with line artillery will perform better than one without. It's more a question of "is adding line artillery to my infantry divisions a better use of my factories than more planes and tanks?" now.  Gort fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 09:08
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What share do I need to divide my industry between infantry weapons, support equipment and artillery for bog standard 10 inf divisions with support engineers and support artillery? I assume attrition destroys equipment at the same ratio that the unit needed it right?
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Oct 3, 2018 09:17
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BabyFur Denny posted:What share do I need to divide my industry between infantry weapons, support equipment and artillery for bog standard 10 inf divisions with support engineers and support artillery? That division needs: 1010 infantry gear at 0.5 production each: 505 production. 30 support gear at 4 production each: 120 production. 12 artillery at 3.5 production each: 42 production. So for every 10 factories you put on infantry gear, you should put two or three on support, and one on artillery. For comparison, the 7 inf/2 art division from above needs: 710 infantry gear at 0.5 production each: 355 production. 30 support gear at 4 production each: 120 production. 84 artillery at 3.5 production each: 294 production. So for every 7 factories you put on infantry gear, you should put 6 on artillery, and two or three on support. quote:I assume attrition destroys equipment at the same ratio that the unit needed it right? Not exactly - different equipment has different reliability levels so will get destroyed by attrition at different rates, but it's definitely close enough for our purposes. Gort fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 12:09
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Gort posted:Line artillery absolutely is not useless now. Support artillery became a no-brainer on every division, but there's no reason you can't have both - an infantry division with line artillery will perform better than one without. It's more a question of "is adding line artillery to my infantry divisions a better use of my factories than more planes and tanks?" now. Right, but with the way defense and breakthrough works, the division with artillery will still lose if it attacks the division without. If your soft attack can't beat the defense of a division, damage is reduced to the minimum. Which means that the divisions with artillery only start to show their value if you out number the enemy. Since the non arty division is cheaper, they can have more divisions than you. The way to look at it is like this: sure, you can stack soft attack on inf, but its much easier to stack def for fewer resources. The easiest way to get loads of soft attack and breakthrough is with tanks and spgs.
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Oct 3, 2018 13:05
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Today's diary: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-amphibious-vehicles-and-research.1122205/ Featuring amphibious tanks out of the blue (I guess they fit with the nautical theme?) as well as changes to the research system. Speaking of which, I like how they're trying to integrate it more into the game itself and your actions go further in influencing it but I hope they keep taking it farther. Make you have to build the necessary infrastructure and institutions necessary to carry out efficient research. Make it so you have to protect these facilities and personnel. Why is it when Germany has been beaten back to Berlin they're still conducting research as well (if not better) than the American's who now span the globe? Anything that makes it more than "click buttan:get result" is a good start though.
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Oct 3, 2018 15:06
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i lost all ability to feel when i discovered that paradox did not include a duplex drive sherman as one of the amphibious tank 3d models
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Oct 3, 2018 15:10
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I really like that spend xp to research doctrines thing. Makes a lot more sense.
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Oct 3, 2018 15:26
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I really like that spend xp to research doctrines thing. Makes a lot more sense.
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Oct 3, 2018 15:55
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Dramicus posted:Right, but with the way defense and breakthrough works, the division with artillery will still lose if it attacks the division without. If your soft attack can't beat the defense of a division, damage is reduced to the minimum. Which means that the divisions with artillery only start to show their value if you out number the enemy. Since the non arty division is cheaper, they can have more divisions than you. Sure, but the question was whether line artillery is worth having or not, not whether it'll turn the world upside down and make infantry divisions into breakthrough units. I'd say the difference is probably pretty marginal in any case, given that we're talking about a 15% increase in price between a 10 inf and a 7 inf/2 art division. Gort fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 15:56
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Today's diary: they have a branching tree off of light tanks and require special forces cap, so i can't really see a use for these until special forces get fixed
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Oct 3, 2018 16:22
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Cease to Hope posted:they have a branching tree off of light tanks and require special forces cap, so i can't really see a use for these until special forces get fixed The branching tree comes off light tanks, sure, but so do medium tanks - you're going to research those one way or the other. I could see researching these instead of marines, but that all depends on beach assaults being rebalanced - currently the best way to land on a hostile shore is to find an empty province next to a port, land tank divisions there and conquer the port. No special tech needed.
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Oct 3, 2018 16:39
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I havent used special forces in singleplayer ever since the cap. Anyone else? Yeah I can mod it away, but i'm trying to keep my mods list reasonable.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:59
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buglord posted:I havent used special forces in singleplayer ever since the cap. Anyone else? But yeah, I kinda hate that you have to have a hojillion regular infantry standing around in order to build a nontrivial number of special forces. I like having relatively small, efficient armies.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:32
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just had a game ruining bug. playing romania, conquered or puppeted all the little countries around me. was fighting turkey, managed to surround almost all of his armies in a little piece of land between bulgaria and istanbul. suddenly my side just capitulates for zero reason, he gets all my puppets and all my armies (at least 80 divisions) die. i was winning the war, never got a choice. wtf?
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Oct 3, 2018 21:37
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Davincie posted:just had a game ruining bug. playing romania, conquered or puppeted all the little countries around me. was fighting turkey, managed to surround almost all of his armies in a little piece of land between bulgaria and istanbul. suddenly my side just capitulates for zero reason, he gets all my puppets and all my armies (at least 80 divisions) die. i was winning the war, never got a choice. wtf? Were you running any mods?
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Oct 4, 2018 00:43
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I think there should be an achievement for accidentally nuking yourself. Not that it happens very often 
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Oct 4, 2018 07:51
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Strudel Man posted:Occasionally I put together a small force of marines when I want to capture a one-province island with defenders. They're not even that great without the research to improve them. They probably over did it a bit with that. They should probably add some sort of base cap too, like every nation gets 5x 20 width divisions as a base cap for special forces, then add to that based on deployed manpower.
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Oct 4, 2018 08:05
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