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Catfish Noodlin posted:Did Bioware ever cop to that? It seemed really on the nose to me too. It's not actually the same thing though. Dragon Age and Mass Effect are both the same story; Christ-figure hero belonging to a politically neutral/unaccountable organisation has to rally a team and get the four macguffins so that he/she can stop the innumerate hordes of the big bad from causing the apocalypse and killing everyone. Probably dying in the end. It just so happens that in the fantasy setting telling that story means you create an organisation that looks superficially a bit like Witchers, but when you look at the detail they're not taking any of the story beats or core concepts at all. e: incidentally I'd really like to see a CDPR take in Dragon Age. An organisation of people who's special power is going slowly mad because a dead god talks to them at night but they have to do it because they're the only ones who can save the world is a really interesting concept. I can just imagine one of their writers saying 'wait, they can be literally anyone?' and producing a script that's about a dysfunctional fantasy A-team. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 22:10
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:It was almost 10 years after I played the game when I finally realized the antagonist was the child from the beginning of the game...my mind was totally blown. I dunno man, FO4 might give it a run for its money.
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Oct 4, 2018 22:54
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There are things you shouldn't joke about in decent company.
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Oct 4, 2018 22:56
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Shooting Blanks posted:I dunno man, FO4 might give it a run for its money. This is a good post and I ~almost~ bit. 
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Oct 4, 2018 23:16
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Alchenar posted:It's not actually the same thing though. Dragon Age and Mass Effect are both the same story; Christ-figure hero belonging to a politically neutral/unaccountable organisation has to rally a team and get the four macguffins so that he/she can stop the innumerate hordes of the big bad from causing the apocalypse and killing everyone. Probably dying in the end. It just so happens that in the fantasy setting telling that story means you create an organisation that looks superficially a bit like Witchers, but when you look at the detail they're not taking any of the story beats or core concepts at all. That's also the plot of KOTOR 1 and Jade Empire. Bioware has been phoning it in for a while.
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Oct 4, 2018 23:56
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Pretty much every BioWare game places you in a paramilitary organization without government oversight for the sole purpose of giving you an epithet to avoid writing a defined name for your character. It's super lazy when everything in their games is based off of some noun that tries way too hard to sound cool. Spectre/Pathfinder/Warden/Champion/"insert chosen one synonym here" fighting against the Darkspawn/Reapers/Collectors/Remnant whatever. At least when they did Star Wars they were given Jedi and Sith to use for their archetypes, and due to Star Wars's culture status those are acceptable titles. But even then you have dumb poo poo like calling your protagonist the Outlander in the TOR expansion packs. The trouble with these generic names and titles is that they reveal the artifice and cookie cutter approach to world building BioWare veers into when they get lazy. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 00:12
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I loved dao, but it was very bland if you didn't read the lore bits as you went along
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Oct 5, 2018 01:16
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Generic names and titles, you say?? Dragon Age: Origins, set in the mysterious land of Thedas. Thedas, aka TheDAS, aka The Dragon Age Setting.
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Oct 5, 2018 01:23
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Iirc, the whole "Grey Warden" thing was tacked onto Dragon Age because they started out trying to make a setting like The Witcher, then gave up and said "gently caress it, let's make up some untermensch for the player to mindlessly slaughter."
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Oct 5, 2018 02:22
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i know that game had a long and rocky dev cycle, with multiple project resets  ^from e3 2004
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Oct 5, 2018 02:30
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dreadmojo posted:I loved dao, but it was very bland if you didn't read the lore bits as you went along Part of me thinks I actually enjoyed DA:O for itself and another part that they just crammed it with so much BG2 nostalgia that I couldn't help myself and was tricked...  Wicked Them Beats posted:Generic names and titles, you say?? 
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Oct 5, 2018 03:51
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Tbf to Bioware I played the hell out of DA:O and really enjoyed it, but I don't think the game has aged particularly well, and it hits all the same story beats as every other game they've made, making it feel like they just filed the serial numbers off of another property. Add in the subpar expansion followed up really quickly by the cash-grab DA2 and you get the feeling that Bioware wasn't really invested in the setting or characters, they just wanted a popular IP they could get a clean profit off of every 18 months. BG2 was their best game (for a lot of people it's still THE best game of all time) and they've never recaptured that lightning in a bottle.
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Oct 5, 2018 04:08
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I like the original Dragon Age a lot and feel like it came out at the right time wrt fantasy 3d RPG gaming.
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Oct 5, 2018 04:15
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Grandmaster Ursine is  as gently caress. I had hoped during the base game that master crafted would have incorporated bear fur so it's cool they finally did it. I only wish I still had stuff left to do in Skellige.
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Oct 5, 2018 04:40
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Lol Brandon Sanderson was dunking on Sapkowski by saying he'd give CDPR the rights to the Mistborn series for free but considered against it because they might not want to work with self important fantasy authors again.
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Oct 5, 2018 06:11
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I hope someone takes him up on that, a Mistborn rpg by CDPR would rule.
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Oct 5, 2018 07:07
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Arcsquad12 posted:Pretty much every BioWare game places you in a paramilitary organization without government oversight for the sole purpose of giving you an epithet to avoid writing a defined name for your character. No it's more sensible than that - the PC being part of a non-political organisation is the plot hook that lets you set the player loose in the game world and encounter *setting defining situations* without having a background that means the player would not be accepted as a neutral arbitrator or have an obvious reason to pick one side. Most quests stop making sense.
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Oct 5, 2018 07:24
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Inquisition had many, many problems but the ending did have me interested in the next one. Unfortunately we're four years on from that and nothing has happened; presumably nothing will. I think part of the issue is Witcher 3 came out a year after Inquisition and was significantly better in every way. Maybe whatever is left of Bioware realise they can't come close to that level of quality.
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Oct 5, 2018 08:10
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Plucky Brit posted:Inquisition had many, many problems but the ending did have me interested in the next one. Unfortunately we're four years on from that and nothing has happened; presumably nothing will. That should be a challenge to chase, not cause for quitting. Its not like they can't check out what about Witcher 3 was good, or what people liked about other RPGS. Also making a Dragon Age not from the shell of an MMO would probably improve quality immensly
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Oct 5, 2018 08:37
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WirelessPillow posted:That should be a challenge to chase, not cause for quitting. Its not like they can't check out what about Witcher 3 was good, or what people liked about other RPGS. Considering the disaster of Andromeda and the fact that most of their talent has left, I'm guessing that Bioware isn't capable of producing something even at Inquisition's level again. gently caress, just look at Anthem.
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Oct 5, 2018 08:43
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Anthem looks alright for what it is, it's just I don't think anyone (and especially not bioware's fans) were asking for another destiny clone.
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Oct 5, 2018 09:00
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For me Mistborn world looks more like something for the old Obsidian with Avellone still inside. It's been a while but I remember books had this "zero to godlike" trip that is not something CDPR did. Still, it might be a neat idea for quality game companies to start working closely with popular book writers. Not everything can be made into a TV series or a movie, it's easier with games. Also as I get older and have less time for games I tend to pick the familiar worlds, because I'd rather not spend game time on reading book worth of dry lore.
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Oct 5, 2018 09:36
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Plucky Brit posted:
Ubisoft included W3 inspired stuff in newer Assassin's Creed and so far people love it. I wonder how much of a mismanagement mess EA BioWare became that they can't react to market trends while still keeping their core strength. MBA's probably did their analysis and decided to cut losses, because they are just suits. Pro move would be Andromeda 2, but with proper development time. Everyone loves a good comeback story.
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Oct 5, 2018 09:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:Lol Brandon Sanderson was dunking on Sapkowski by saying he'd give CDPR the rights to the Mistborn series for free but considered against it because they might not want to work with self important fantasy authors again. Do want.
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Oct 5, 2018 10:02
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Mistborn powers shouldn't be that hard to do in a video game even. Steelpushing (telekinesis but only works on metals) would be the main thing to get right and what you'd base the combat and movement on - might have to take some inspiration from the new Spiderman of all things. The other powers are emotional manipulation, enhanced strength, speed, senses, and time manipulation/bullet time so that's all easy.
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Oct 5, 2018 10:10
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WirelessPillow posted:That should be a challenge to chase, not cause for quitting. Its not like they can't check out what about Witcher 3 was good, or what people liked about other RPGS. "But CDPR made every bit of their game by hand and that's a lot of work...why can't my procgen algorithm do just as well???"  -Bioware
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Oct 5, 2018 17:21
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gently caress DAI, it was like four actual missions (only one of them not a linear combat fest, but better than nothing) padded out by forcing you to grind for currency to unlock them. Worst goddamn waste of time.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:27
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Enjoy this cave. It is like every other cave, but this is the spider cave.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:28
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Whats the quote from someone way earlier in this thread about that? That W3 is good because each side quest is both unncessary for you to finish the game but also has a story well beyond "Fetch five bear asses for the old man in town".
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Oct 5, 2018 17:29
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Arcsquad12 posted:Lol Brandon Sanderson was dunking on Sapkowski by saying he'd give CDPR the rights to the Mistborn series for free but considered against it because they might not want to work with self important fantasy authors again. i think he just didn't want to come off as being presumptuous
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Oct 5, 2018 17:31
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Whats the quote from someone way earlier in this thread about that? That W3 is good because each side quest is both unncessary for you to finish the game but also has a story well beyond "Fetch five bear asses for the old man in town". Witcher 2 had a quest where you collect harpy feathers but it had one hell of a payoff.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:35
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I can't even imagine playing DA:I without using system clock fuckery. Must be such a waste of time.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:51
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Whats the quote from someone way earlier in this thread about that? That W3 is good because each side quest is both unncessary for you to finish the game but also has a story well beyond "Fetch five bear asses for the old man in town". You have to fetch the pellar's goat. Geralt sighs just like the player is doing and says "Fine, whatever". You fight a couple of wolves on the way to the goat. Escorting the goat is a little fiddly and Geralt gets pissed off with it and then OH poo poo A BEAR. You fight and kill the bear. Maybe explore the bear cave it came out of. Return Goat. The fundamentals of the quest are extremely simple - fight one group of weak enemies, collect the thing, fight a single big enemy, return the thing. However that one quest has more feeling in it than anything in DAI because of how well the narrative justifying you moving from enemy group to enemy group is. The way Geralt reacts. The fact that the quest obviously exists because CDPR decided that at that precise moment the flow of gameplay needed you to fight a couple of things rather than just talk to the Pellar and that's fine and great. e: In DAI every conversation is obviously moving towards the 'go to this location and kill some things for me' moment. In W3 every conversation feels like a conversation and CDPR know how to pace progress through quests so that you have some interesting dialogue when you want and then you get to kill some things when you want. Everyone says that Story is W3's strong point, but I'd argue that the pacing of the gameplay is equally if not even more significant for it's success. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 18:00
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Another great thing about that quest is that despite the great pacing, they also don't stop you from skipping most of it by being a bit clever and remembering Geralt can magically influence the minds of animals and just direct the goat right to the Pellar's place no problem.
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Oct 5, 2018 18:20
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Another great thing about that quest is that despite the great pacing, they also don't stop you from skipping most of it by being a bit clever and remembering Geralt can magically influence the minds of animals and just direct the goat right to the Pellar's place no problem. The way Axii is treated in general is great. Perfect when it's just you talking to one or two people or dealing with animals but dicey in a crowd. There's a quest in Hearts of Stone where you have to give a ghost a night of reverie so you let him possess you while you attend a country wedding. There's a pig corralling contest so naturally you think Axii is the easy route, but the crowd, while peasants, still know witch-fuckery when they see it so they disqualify you.
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Oct 5, 2018 18:28
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The best use for Axii is that quest where you force guards to count to 100. It's in HoS, one of encounters with the new bandits. It was simple, but really enjoyable to hear their banter as they're trying to count.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:14
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I think Bioware isnt worth talking about since largely they're no longer in the game, really I wonder how Bethesda will survive the new market because they already got shamed by several games at this point and wont release another RPG until after Cyberpunk comes out
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Oct 5, 2018 19:42
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A lot if it will hinge on TES VI. Skyrim catapulted Bethesda from well known but otherwise pedestrian game studio to cultural phenomenon. It can't afford to only manage the level of "okay but not great" that Fallout 4 did.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:45
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What about Fallout 76 or whatever it is? I personally feel like it still looks like rear end, but I am biased because I cant stand the engine they use and the movement profiles of pretty much everything. Nothing looks like it weighs anything and just all looks really awkward to me. Are they actually doing another single player Elder Scrolls game?
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Oct 5, 2018 19:50
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Yeah they did a teaser for it last e3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkFdqqyI8y4
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Oct 5, 2018 19:56
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