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I've been playing on the Switch version and find the controls responsive and don't think I've had problems. There have been a couple times where I wondered if a jump input got eaten but every instance of that could just as well have been explained by me being closer to an edge than I thought I was.
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Oct 5, 2018 05:21
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Dabir posted:I feel like there might be something going on if you try to jump as you're turning around, but haven't checked too closely. This almost sounds like what I feel I'm noticing on PS4, because I played through the X collection with it's extra lag and didn't really have problems (a quick google showed someone measuring MM11 at 88 ms, which I think is better than what the X collection was doing), and the jumps not happening aren't on ledges, they're usually when I'm either fighting a boss or mid-boss and I think I had been turning around, because it happened twice earlier when I was fighting the yellow devil and trying to jump over the minidevils from the corner of the room (in midturn), but I had absolutely no problems when going through the stage itself, which you'd think would have triggered at some point considering the cog stuff. Also never had a problem with the buster messing up. It's also entirely possible I'm nuts.
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Oct 5, 2018 05:53
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Did my speedrun of Gear Fortress 1. Being able to use weapons made me feel like a absolute monster. I'm really shocked with myself. I had to chug e-tanks my first normal playthrough but so far I haven't had to use one at all. Which is like, good. Cause' I don't have time to get them outside blockmans but still  E:  I did it! Had to abandon a couple runs but got it at the end at 57 minutes. Haha that's absurd. Got the no items used and no continues in the process so that's fun. Now to finish my super hero run ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 06:45
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Screaming Idiot posted:I think the difficulty for normal mode is just right, especially as you buy powerups. As long as you don't obsessively grind Blockman's stage for bolts, the progression feels really natural. The stages go from "ow oof my bones" to "SUPER FIGHTING ROBOT MEGAMAN" in a smooth, but noticable way. I want to agree with this. I've seen some people talking about how the game is too hard, too mean, too merciless, and I'm wondering if I'm on a different plane of existence because I'm not good at video games but even with that the difficulty felt just right to me. Wasn't hard enough for a hard mode, wasn't easy enough to be an easy mode. It felt...genuinely normal. I died a good couple of times, tried again, won, moved onto the next area. I love this game's difficulty. It's willing to bite me if I mess up, but you can clearly see what you've done wrong and can do it better next time. I especially like how you can tweak it even further with easily-done self-imposed handicaps/assistance in various ways. Want more challenge? Don't use the gears. Want less challenge? Buy stuff in the shop. TerminusEst13 fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 12:31
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So is it actually possible to complete the entire game without using the Gear system at all? It seems like some of the chase sequences come at you too fast without Speed Gear and the Yellow Devil is an absolute nightmare without Power Gear Chain Blast.
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Oct 5, 2018 12:47
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It's not the difficulty of the challenges, its the punishment for failing them. There's only one checkpoint per level, and your weapon energy doesn't refill when you die. Energy refilling on death is something the X series has been doing since X4, remember. Casual has refills, checkpoints every couple of rooms and a much higher set of starting lives (which just adds up to less tedium buying lives really). Also half damage, which I'm not sure I like.
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Oct 5, 2018 13:08
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Dabir posted:and your weapon energy doesn't refill when you die. Energy refilling on death is something the X series has been doing since X4, remember. I never liked that this was done in the first place, myself. It felt like it made weapon energy rationing a trivial matter, which in turn made weapon energy pickups feel completely pointless to go for. There was no downside for using weapons improperly, missing shots with them, or cocking up a fight. Add in the gigantic dumps of lives you got with hostages in X5/X6 (and continuing just basically being an extra life anyway) and the infinite energy that the helmet gave you in X4, and it felt really broken. I feel like a better way to handle it just would've been to make the weapons have a lot of meter and can be used and experimented with. But, well, that's me. Ideally, it'd be nice to have an option to turn on and off so you could select what you preferred. The Energy Balancer Neo is already a really interesting little item. Larryb posted:So is it actually possible to complete the entire game without using the Gear system at all? It seems like some of the chase sequences come at you too fast without Speed Gear and the Yellow Devil is an absolute nightmare without Power Gear Chain Blast. Seems like it'd be not only possible but actually extremely feasible. I didn't know Chain Blast was the Devil's weakness at first, so I ended up going Buster-only on him, so I can definitely attest to that being doable at least. Power Gear Chain Blast definitely makes it much much much easier, though.
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Oct 5, 2018 13:20
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There's actually two checkpoints per level on normal not counting the boss door one! But yeah I feel like games where you get a checkpoint every 5 steps is what's turning people off. I mean if players need it it's honestly fine but watching a speedrun on Casual and having the flag pop up literally other room would feel too hand-holdy to me. What I do want my hand held for is this stupid rear end Dr. Light challenge. I finished my Super Hero run and its the only thing left and room 4 is making me want to scream and ragequit. It's a tight maze of spikes and those bounce balls and the hit detection is so awful. It's just so bad. You have to find a magic pixel and if you screw up a single time you're sent back to the start. I've gotten past it a few times but it kills 70% of my attempts and I just know there's a good chance these loving things are going to show up again before I hit 30. 
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Oct 5, 2018 13:24
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TerminusEst13 posted:Seems like it'd be not only possible but actually extremely feasible. I didn't know Chain Blast was the Devil's weakness at first, so I ended up going Buster-only on him, so I can definitely attest to that being doable at least. Yeah, that's why I said "is". I didn't know his weakness when I first fought him either, it's definitely doable but I wouldn't recommend it unless you really want to challenge yourself.
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Oct 5, 2018 13:38
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Oh man I saw people upset with Gear Fortress only having 2 real levels. Dr Light's trial is a extended one. I hope you like fighting Yellow Devil at room 10, weird clam bakesale at 20 and Wily himself with both forms at 30 
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Oct 5, 2018 13:46
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Larryb posted:So is it actually possible to complete the entire game without using the Gear system at all? It seems like some of the chase sequences come at you too fast without Speed Gear and the Yellow Devil is an absolute nightmare without Power Gear Chain Blast. I'm currently at Wily 3 without having used the system at all, so unless there's some curveball with the final boss yes. The game is even perfectly fine with letting you unmap the buttons.
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Oct 5, 2018 13:47
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Phantasium posted:I'm currently at Wily 3 without having used the system at all, so unless there's some curveball with the final boss yes. The game is even perfectly fine with letting you unmap the buttons. Nope, unless he gets some new tricks on harder difficulties I think this is probably the easiest Wily Machine in the entire series. Nevermind then.
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Oct 5, 2018 14:11
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Larryb posted:Nope, unless he gets some new tricks on harder difficulties I think this is probably the easiest Wily Machine in the entire series. Nevermind then. Can confirm nothing changes except his damage output on Super Hero
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Oct 5, 2018 15:02
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Just did a quick test for the hell of it. The little twin-blade guys at the very start of Block Man's stage (Lyric according to the gallery) damage to Mega per hit: Casual: 1.5 pips Normal: 2 pips Superhero: 4.5 pips Did 2 other tests with Block Man's weapon, and both the damage and uses with a full charge were the same. I thought I was doing less damage in Superhero, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Oct 5, 2018 16:05
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Overall the game is good, but I can't help but be a little disappointed by Wily stages, since not only there are very few of those, but there are even less original bosses in them. I think Bounce Man is my least favorite stage - both visaully and gameplay-wise (couldn't tell you a thing about any of the songs, can't remember them). I was a bit surprised to find out that quite a few people consider it easy and good. But I suppose I'm just very impatient... At least it's the only stage that features those assholes that jump up from the pits. I still have no idea why the gently caress that enemy keeps returning pretty much every other game. The difficulties also seem hosed up. I've decided to play on the hardest one my second playthrough, and while I can understand why enemies don't drop health, the desicion to remove all stationary pickups is baffling. It's not that you need them, it just seems like a weird thing considering how easy you can cheese it. Enemies drop a ton of bolts, so after every stage you can get a bunch of lives and e-tanks and basically gently caress up the difficulty that way. You don't really even need to beat any stages, you can just quit at any time. I wonder if you're able to get "no game overs on normal or higher" achievement that way, since quitting the stage seems to have no penalty. I think the opposite would be way more fun - having no access to the shop aside for a few upgrades (maybe reduce the max no. of lives and E-tanks you could hold), and keeping all the pickups in the stages. As it is now, I feel like it's just obnoxious without using the shop at all - every level is quite long, you basically have no lives, everything does substantial amounts of damage, you can't get weapon energy... Also the shop itself is a bit frustrating. I've played the game A LOT, beaten it once, and got to Wily 3 the second time and I still have no idea what the first three upgrades on the 3rd page are. I'm guessin they're item drop upgrades, since I've seen people talk about them, but I have no idea what to do to get them.
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Oct 5, 2018 16:46
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Bounceman's gimmick was a fun idea that was done as poorly as possible, and aesthetically it looks like what an alien pedophile would design if he were building a house for a human pedophile.
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Oct 5, 2018 16:58
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Phantasium posted:Anybody else feel like your jump input just gets eaten, like, 2% of the time? And I don't mean in the middle of that bastard hit stun. Only played the demo, but absolutely. Hell, I'd say more like 10%. This plus the INSANE level length are the reasons I didn't buy.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:20
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I think the issue with the game being too hard is that there is a conceptually minor difference in level design between the older games and the newer games that ends up having a big impact on playing Namely, the levels in MM11 are roughly 2-3x longer. This by itself is not an issue. However, the life system still operates as if the game were much shorter. Older games operated under the assumption you would play them over and over again, either because they are hard or because you arent sure which boss weapon to use. Therefore, they were short, but each individual screen was meant to act as a unique challenge. I think MM9 really got this concept well when it was a "reboot" of the series. What this meant was that, if you had trouble with something, you could practice it relatively easy. If one screen was giving you a lot of trouble, a lost life would usually mean about 1-2 minutes to try again. A game over would mean maybe 3-4. 5 max. Each individual checkpoint segment in MM11 is at least five minutes of gameplay. This means you end up feeling exhausted and frustrated when you gave over. Its likely you could have difficulty with an obstacle at the end of the 3rd checkpoint, die, and have to restart a 15 minute run just to get back there and start again. This motivates you to use shortcuts like items and e-tanks or beat, etc. The reward of clearing a level without any items is not worth the frustration of failing to do it. Take Wily Stage 1. Yellow Devil is hard and complex and interesting. I WANT to fight that boss over and over until I get it right. However, I ended up just mashing e-tank because the long trek through the level was too tedious for me to be willing to risk having to do it again vs. the boss.
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Oct 5, 2018 17:45
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Speaking of items, what does the Mystery Chip actually do if you get to the boss of a level quickly with it equipped? Does it just fully restore your life and weapon energy or something?
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Oct 5, 2018 17:54
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Larryb posted:Speaking of items, what does the Mystery Chip actually do if you get to the boss of a level quickly with it equipped? Does it just fully restore your life and weapon energy or something? 200 extra bolts. It doesn't even give a message. You just look at your menu or the shop and notice you have 200 more bolts than you did before.
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Oct 5, 2018 18:00
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Phantasium posted:Anybody else feel like your jump input just gets eaten, like, 2% of the time? And I don't mean in the middle of that bastard hit stun. Yes. Also I feel like the game is very obnoxious about clipping overhead platforms. It's most obvious in the Blockman stage when you're on the conveyor belt navigating those giant moving blocks, and in Torchman's stage when running from the fire. Overhead objects seem to be a few pixels wider than they appear on screen. Mel Mudkiper posted:I think the issue with the game being too hard is that there is a conceptually minor difference in level design between the older games and the newer games that ends up having a big impact on playing This is exactly right. I brute forced the game with items because the punishment for failing was so severe. At this point, I've beaten the game twice, on normal difficulty, and I don't consider myself good at this game at all. The Human Crouton fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 18:02
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The Human Crouton posted:This is exactly right. I brute forced the game with items because the punishment for failing was so severe. At this point, I've beaten the game twice, on normal difficulty, and I don't consider myself good at this game at all. Yeah, I usually never check the "weakness list" on my first run because I want to figure it out organically. However, the idea of doing that slog of a stage only to find out I didn;t have the right weapon was so annoying I ended up looking up the boss order. That being said, Rush jump and jet as their own buttons is a great idea, as is the right stick weapon switching. Also Torch Man's weapon is one of the most interesting and awesome weapons in the entire series
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Oct 5, 2018 18:23
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I figured it out, now that I've beaten the game. The down input for the slide is way too generous, so there are times where I'm ever so slightly pressing down and I end up sliding instead of jumping, but I don't notice because you can come out of a slide immediately. It kept happening while I was fighting Wily, except I didn't necessarily get hit the times it was happening so I noticed the very beginning of the slide animation happening. When I made a conscious effort to hold my thumb higher on the d-pad it stopped happening. edit: jesus christ i said happening like a billion times Phantasium fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 19:10
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Dabir posted:It's not the difficulty of the challenges, its the punishment for failing them. There's only one checkpoint per level, and your weapon energy doesn't refill when you die. Energy refilling on death is something the X series has been doing since X4, remember. Casual has refills, checkpoints every couple of rooms and a much higher set of starting lives (which just adds up to less tedium buying lives really). Also half damage, which I'm not sure I like.  I semi recently replayed megaman 2 and 3 without abusing the poo poo out of save states so that helps the nerd guilt.Not like the other difficult settings are going anywhere once I feel like using em, and feeling like I've got too many checkpoints beats feeling like I've got too few as I tell myself "I can just buy lives later!" Murphys law is also a huge factor I guess? Starting with 5 spare lives meant dying twice in Fuse Man's stage vs starting with 2 spare lives having record breaking moronic game over speeds. Phantasium posted:I figured it out, now that I've beaten the game.  Slide/Jump botches are destined to always be the opposite of what you need. Section Z fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 19:38
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That's one good thing about the Switch's stock d-pad, no confusing which direction or directions you're pressing. I noticed the pro controller really wants you to press up-left or up-right instead of straight up. Maybe it's just mine.
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Oct 5, 2018 19:55
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Section Z posted:Slide/Jump botches are destined to always be the opposite of what you need. Honestly I've never had a problem with that before in any other game in the series. Dabir posted:That's one good thing about the Switch's stock d-pad, no confusing which direction or directions you're pressing. I noticed the pro controller really wants you to press up-left or up-right instead of straight up. Maybe it's just mine. No, that's a known issue with those. I think there's guides to changing the inside of the controller just enough to prevent that. Phantasium fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 19:57
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The Human Crouton posted:This is exactly right. I brute forced the game with items because the punishment for failing was so severe. At this point, I've beaten the game twice, on normal difficulty, and I don't consider myself good at this game at all. I agree also. Lives are an archaic system that need to go away, but shorter stages mitigated this quite a bit. Having an option where lives are unlimited and getting to a save point would mean unlimited tries going forward unless one just gives up would work well. I've only played the demo and I was initially quite happy with the longer stages, but I quickly realised that the lives system still being a sacred cow could easily make that a detriment.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:06
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 100% Clear! Light builds worse death traps then wily I swear to god. Also go figure my winning run is the one where I paused to take the dog out- if you attempt Light just know it's about 15-17 minutes of endurance.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:36
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I feel like lives still work for me in the context of this style of game because it adds an element of tension to the playthrough. If I reached the boss and got a checkpoint that just let me try again as much as I wanted I wouldn't care about e-tanks at all because I know I'd eventually get it. If I might get kicked back to the beginning of the stage and have an e-tank, I have to decide if I want to hang on to it for later or if I want to play it safe and use it. Perhaps they could have some sort of system where you get taken back to a previous checkpoint if you fail too much but I almost feel like that would feel worse than a game over in certain spots, because it would in general train me not to sweat the occasional death but then if one point in the game proves really tricky suddenly that mechanic would kick in when it didn't present an issue before.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:44
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Honestly outside a speedrun or super hero I can't imagine lives being too much of a issue. They're super cheap and there's a cheesy- method to grind bolts in Block Man's stage if you really need it (or the Torch Man method if you're Super Hero). Honestly I think it's balanced for everyone just right- you just gotta be okay with hitting casual if things are too hard for you. There's literally no penalty or shame in it. Like I vented frustrations in the thread but it felt great to overcome them. I hope this kinda punishing game sticks around... just uh, without my inputs being eaten :T;
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Oct 5, 2018 20:48
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I’d be happy if they would at least gift you a free life at the beginning of the stage if you die before the first checkpoint. When that happens there’s little reason not to just reload or throw yourself down the nearest pit since you’d otherwise be at a disadvantage if you make it past the checkpoint on your next attempt.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:51
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maybe I'm just broken but even when I'm down to no lives after beating a stage I still make an attempt on a new stage. it always felt to me like building the muscle memory and figuring out good paths through the level was worth it even if I didn't make it to the boss, and hey, occasionally you do real good on your first try and get a shot at the boss anyway.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:55
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I understand the design arguments about lives and I feel like as a whole we can probably move past them but they really work for me here to provide some tension in the gameplay loop. To me, MM games have always been about repetition and learning, and the lives system kind of reinforces that.Mel Mudkiper posted:Therefore, they were short, but each individual screen was meant to act as a unique challenge. MM11's levels are obviously way longer, like you said, but I got this feeling much harder out of it than I did from 9 or 10. A lot of the rooms or level sections in 11 feel really unique with their own little gimmick and tricks that make them really memorable like all my favorite old levels. Like, I can remember entire screen layouts from some rooms because so many of them use the stage-specific environmental stuff in unique, cool ways.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:55
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Phantasium posted:maybe I'm just broken but even when I'm down to no lives after beating a stage I still make an attempt on a new stage. it always felt to me like building the muscle memory and figuring out good paths through the level was worth it even if I didn't make it to the boss, and hey, occasionally you do real good on your first try and get a shot at the boss anyway. I did this in torch mans stage (I think). Got to him on one life then and then got bopped and sent back to start. Since then I go about halfway if anything because it was such a bummer getting to him and dying and undoing everything.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:57
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One thing I'll say about 11, I forget if I've already said this, is I can always feel myself learning and getting better as I retry stages. That wasn't always the case with MM10, Blade Man and Solar Man's levels sometimes felt like I was just stumbling through a succession of hidden rakes that wore me down by the time I got to the boss.
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Oct 5, 2018 21:16
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The way levels are designed works all right for a context with all the upgrades and the use of the items the main game gives you, but it is -absolutely- at odds with a healthy time trial scheme. If you die once, and you almost certainly will if you're trying to be fast, you may as well restart or quit. It's a sprint AND a marathon.
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Oct 5, 2018 23:49
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Larryb posted:So is it actually possible to complete the entire game without using the Gear system at all? It seems like some of the chase sequences come at you too fast without Speed Gear and the Yellow Devil is an absolute nightmare without Power Gear Chain Blast. It's all doable, but the last bit of the final boss is very annoying to land hits on without speed gear. By the way, acid man on superhero is absolutely insane to fight with no weapons or gears. Maybe the hardest boss in the whole game playing that way. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 23:54
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Most of the chase sequences have cheats that let you make them a lot easier. Like the Lava Walls in Torch Man can be frozen with Tundra Man's weapon and such.
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Oct 6, 2018 00:00
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deepshock posted:The way levels are designed works all right for a context with all the upgrades and the use of the items the main game gives you, but it is -absolutely- at odds with a healthy time trial scheme. If you die once, and you almost certainly will if you're trying to be fast, you may as well restart or quit. It's a sprint AND a marathon. For leaderboard purposes yeah you're not gonna be competitive if there's a death in your run, but for players just trying to improve to the next medal I can see why they'd want to feel like they don't have to start the whole level over if they die to the boss or something. I wish there was an option to toggle that off though.
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Oct 6, 2018 00:02
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ImpAtom posted:Most of the chase sequences have cheats that let you make them a lot easier. Like the Lava Walls in Torch Man can be frozen with Tundra Man's weapon and such. 
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Oct 6, 2018 00:04
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