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I don't think grinding itself is a problem. I like games where you have to be very careful strategist to win. Like Pillars of Eternity 1 on PotD where you have to micromanage most fights pausing every second. Or XCOM. But sometimes I'm not in the mood for depth and then I appreciate a game that lets me to convert my time into in-game power. It doesn't feel cheap - it's not like I've cheated or switched the game into the easy mode or used an exploit. Even in Dark Souls you can appreciate it as an instrument that allows lesser beings with bad timing and low attention span to eventually beat the game by turning over every stone looking for treasure and killing the same monsters over and over for souls. I do grind in Dark Souls cause I'm not very good at it, and I don't grind in JRPGs cause I'm good at them and I'm content with the fact that everybody can complete those games with a little help from grinding.
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Oct 5, 2018 09:18
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ilitarist posted:Also on status effects: I like good systems where status effects have their place, resistance to them is rare and explicit. I think earlier FF where extremely bad about it not even telling you that someone is immune, just saying MISS - should I try again or is it useless?.. It's nice when status effects have limited effect. Like when there is a status effect for skipping next action, but bosses get several per turn so you can't stun-lock them, stuff like that. In FF too often status effect means win button in many circumstances like throwing Berserk/Silence on a mage and it persists forever. So your single action prevents dozen of enemy actions. It's balanced by the fact that you can't know if it will work, but if you do now then it becomes trivial. Knowledge is valued much more more than quick thinking here. I think X-2 handles this pretty well. You can get Scan really early in the game, and it shows you every status enemies are immune too (in addition to statuses showing "immune" when you try them out). Most bosses are vulnerable to minor status effects like Darkness, Slow, and Poison. And just about all of them have no resistance to strength/magic/defense/magic defense/accuracy/evasion debuffs. Lots of abilities also do damage in addition to adding status/debuffs so it's not a wasted turn if it doesn't work. I also like how areas will usually have 1 or 2 rare encounters with stronger enemies that will wreck your poo poo with status effects and/or "reduce HP to 1" attacks. It's always funny to see people complain about random battles being harder than bosses because all their grinding didn't prepare them for attacks that ignore their inflated stats.
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Oct 5, 2018 10:16
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corn in the bible posted:hahaha wow He's right. I used to be one of those people. Thankfully I grew up.
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Oct 5, 2018 18:52
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Dragon Quest 11 does status effects better than any other RPG I've played. Bosses are susceptible to some of them but not all of them and yet none of the fights can be completely broken by any status effect.
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Oct 5, 2018 18:56
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The trouble with voluntarily grinding is that some games are balanced so that if you decide to opt out of the really narrow margins of victory by trading time for power, you can't go back to the more intense difficulty because you tend to stay overleveled.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:20
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Grind in atelier games. The most worthless act.
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Oct 5, 2018 20:38
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Tae posted:Grind in atelier games. The most worthless act. You gotta hit lv50 so Cory will like you!!
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Oct 5, 2018 20:58
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Elephant Ambush posted:Dragon Quest 11 does status effects better than any other RPG I've played. Bosses are susceptible to some of them but not all of them and yet none of the fights can be completely broken by any status effect. I agree mostly with this, but normal debuffs miss often enough to be frustrating against bosses (which makes them just not worth spending a turn on, especially if it means passing up a heal or buff) and the stuff Erik/Sylvando can do with status effects + daggers really does run over the first half of the game. Also I think part of the issue w/ grinding, and a thing that compels people to do it beyond just being Bad at Games and not wanting to think, is that levels and currency tend to gate off character options and spells. That stuff is content! Content is fun. Like it'd be pretty easy to beat any FF game without ever learning a bit of blue magic, but blue magic is often interesting and fun to experiment with, and getting it means voluntarily fighting more. Baku fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 21:13
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Also I think part of the issue w/ grinding, and a thing that compels people to do it beyond just being Bad at Games and not wanting to think, is that levels and currency tend to gate off character options and spells. That stuff is content! Content is fun. Like it'd be pretty easy to beat any FF game without ever learning a bit of blue magic, but blue magic is often interesting and fun to experiment with, and getting it means voluntarily fighting more. Get real. People don't grind for more interesting options, they grind for abilities that do more damage/completion/higher stats in Freelancer. Also Blue Magic is like, the anti-grind since if you know where it's located you can quickly go pick it up without gaining levels. Lol it's a common complaint in X-2 that mastering a dressphere "doesn't do anything". Like, what? I spent all this time grinding AP and all I get is this stupid crown? (Nevermind the dozen or so abilities you learn along the way)
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Oct 5, 2018 22:10
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yeah but you can't use them without swapping classes (if you have them on the grid) or spending an accessory slot on access to low level abilities. if not mastery bonuses, x-2 should've had a subsphere so you have access to two full classes' skills at once. none of those weird grid bonuses like "unlock black magic 1 if you swap classes three times in one short random encounter," just give me the fuckin skill don't make me jump through these stupid busywork hoops to get there for a fight that lasts twenty seconds.
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Oct 5, 2018 22:17
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The White Dragon posted:yeah but you can't use them without swapping classes (if you have them on the grid) or spending an accessory slot on access to low level abilities. if not mastery bonuses, x-2 should've had a subsphere so you have access to two full classes' skills at once. none of those weird grid bonuses like "unlock black magic 1 if you swap classes three times in one short random encounter," just give me the fuckin skill don't make me jump through these stupid busywork hoops to get there for a fight that lasts twenty seconds. Changing between classes is integral to the game design. Being able to overcome that fundamental limitation through shear grinding would be dumb as hell. Also what the heck is black magic 1. We're talking about X-2, not V gigglefeimer fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Oct 5, 2018 |
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Oct 5, 2018 22:52
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look man i already got into it with you last time over x-2 i know how this ends
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Oct 5, 2018 23:10
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The White Dragon posted:look man i already got into it with you last time over x-2 i know how this ends The funny thing is, people are already so resistant to changing classes in x-2 that, despite being a huge fundamental change to the game's core system (and running counter to it), the only real difference it would make for the average player would be that they change the standard setup from 2 dark knights and an alchemist, to 3 dark knights with Stash as their sub.
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Oct 5, 2018 23:25
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Phantasium posted:My younger cousin was once telling me how hard a time he was having against some boss in the middle of Kingdom Hearts 2 a few years after it came out, and asked me if I could help him get past it. Well, I pick up the controller and go in the menu to see how he's got things set up, and am immediately bombarded by every single tutorial the game can throw at me, because he not once opened up the menu to change anything and probably didn't know it existed. My brother did this with FFX, 20 hours into the game he hit a wall and I discovered he’d been pulling an unintentional NSGC
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Oct 5, 2018 23:36
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I bet that was probably pretty common with FFVIII. My first time playing it as a kid I had no idea what Quistis was talking about in that junctioning tutorial I used GF attacks to kill everything then had to start over when I got to BFG21312322 because I couldn't beat it fast enough
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Oct 5, 2018 23:45
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My best friend in middle school, who actually played RPGs, thought Dorter Trade City in FFT was impossibly difficult because he didn't know you could field more units than just Ramza.
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Oct 5, 2018 23:51
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I genuinely didn’t get how the junction system worked until I was like 22
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Oct 6, 2018 00:03
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:My best friend in middle school, who actually played RPGs, thought Dorter Trade City in FFT was impossibly difficult because he didn't know you could field more units than just Ramza. do you even grind accumulate way too much?
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Oct 6, 2018 04:16
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:My best friend in middle school, who actually played RPGs, thought Dorter Trade City in FFT was impossibly difficult because he didn't know you could field more units than just Ramza. There are two kinds of people who played FFT: those who accidentally fought the first tutorial fight with only Ramza, and liars.
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Oct 6, 2018 04:26
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HD DAD posted:I genuinely didn’t get how the junction system worked until I was like 22 
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Oct 6, 2018 04:40
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HD DAD posted:I genuinely didn’t get how the junction system worked until I was like 22 I learned how it worked after getting a permanent game over in the missle base. And by learned how it worked I mean figured out tents make curagas.
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Oct 6, 2018 05:02
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I got the basics of the Junctioning system when I picked up FF8, but for some reason I thought that GFs worked like Espers in 6 and that each character could only have one equipped at a time. I don't think I was too far into the game though before a friend just casually mentioned Junctioning multiple GFs and blew my mind.
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Oct 6, 2018 10:35
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I don’t get how “spells are equipment haha isn’t that cute” is some kind of arcane inscrutable mechanic.
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Oct 6, 2018 10:37
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Dross posted:I don’t get how “spells are equipment haha isn’t that cute” is some kind of arcane inscrutable mechanic. it's because the game doesn't explain it like this, the tutorial explains it as an inscrutably arcane mechanic and the examples are marginal garbage "let's try junctioning 30 scan to Str" >+1 boost "junctioning is useless!" A good tutorial, would show the player what happens when they junction 50 Quakes to Str. Also it would say "it's like equipping your spells" instead of "GF gives us a mysterious strength." Fur20 fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Oct 6, 2018 |
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Oct 6, 2018 10:52
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it's better that the game doesn't tell you how junctioning works because you can just junction curaga to your hp to give yourself a billion health points and then just mash attack through 80% of the game and if they actually told they player that then everyone would do it instead of just almost everyone
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Oct 6, 2018 18:08
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The first time I played FF8 as a young teen I think I stumbled my way into junctioning fire to like, my VIT stat and never touched it again because it seemed dumb and complicated at the time. Also I ignored triple triad. Also I didn’t realize enemies leveled with you. “Why is this game so harrrrrrrrrrrd”
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Oct 6, 2018 18:58
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Junctioning is a bad system because it either gives marginal benefits or insane benefits that outweigh everything else. There's no middle ground and it results in a game that is either frustrating or boring
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Oct 6, 2018 19:08
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Dross posted:I don’t get how “spells are equipment haha isn’t that cute” is some kind of arcane inscrutable mechanic. Some people just have a hard time wrapping their minds around things that aren't the norm. Also the thing previously mentioned where people think they're smart and have everything figured out so they never try anything or experiment to see what works and what doesn't.
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Oct 6, 2018 19:08
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Honestly once I found out that a high magic stat was tied to the success of draw, it made magic draw grinding an ease. And since enemies leveled up with you it's not like you needed to grind for levels (except for some enemies only had certain spells to draw at a certain level, like Cerberus needed to be level 40 for you to draw triple from him).
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Oct 6, 2018 19:16
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I played up past Odin without ever using the junction system in FF8 and when I finally decided to try it I immediately lost interest in continuing because it went from a marginally difficult game to a zero effort joke of a game with an increasingly dumb story.
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Oct 6, 2018 20:32
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I was looking at my old videos and this kinda made want to play FFXV again https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w222wGt3-Bs Why couldnt the whole game be more like this
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Oct 6, 2018 21:23
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I hate it when people do that fight and never follow her into the air. It's such a cool little moment.
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Oct 6, 2018 21:50
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WaltherFeng posted:I was looking at my old videos and this kinda made want to play FFXV again forgot I loved how much prompto doing unnecessary combat rolls in battle
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Oct 6, 2018 22:22
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WaltherFeng posted:I was looking at my old videos and this kinda made want to play FFXV again Man 2016 was a weird time.
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Oct 6, 2018 23:34
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WaltherFeng posted:I was looking at my old videos and this kinda made want to play FFXV again The game's at its best when it's mobile and fast, it only makes sense that it's even better when the enemies are too.
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Oct 7, 2018 01:08
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WaltherFeng posted:I was looking at my old videos and this kinda made want to play FFXV again So, funnily enough, I'm now hitting a consistent crash in this exact quest. The part before it, when you're doing a stealth mission while following around a slow, grumbling rear end in a top hat. It turns out that the new online functionality on PC crashes that mission. Every single time, for basically everybody. Not sure why, it just does!
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Oct 7, 2018 07:56
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is there a workaround or is everyone on pc just effed now
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Oct 7, 2018 08:05
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I would have like another boss fight or two against Aranea.
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Oct 7, 2018 08:10
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Oxxidation posted:is there a workaround or is everyone on pc just effed now You just play that one quest offline, and then re-enable the functionality. It does mean that nobody's custom avatar can fight Aranea, though, so that's sad.
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Oct 7, 2018 08:52
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Renoistic posted:I would have like another boss fight or two against Aranea. I'm glad they finally realized that the best character needs her own DLC.
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Oct 7, 2018 09:14
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