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Welp, that's the end of my Mughal run I believe. Failed to get the achievement pretty handily by 1550, also had enough problems with debt that I actually declared bankruptcy to get out of it, which I managed barely. All the while having to deal with ensuring my vassals and marches didn't declare an independence war (Khorasan simply became too strong and threw all my vassal libery desire values off, they were a liability by the end really). Then there was Vijayanagar who, as seems usual, had gone on to dominate virtually all of southern India and basically allied all the remaining Indian powers. Only ally I could really find against them were the Mamluks, who had a trade company in Gujarat, this managed to stave off a war declaration as with the Mamluks on my side I was nominally way stronger than them (just before declaring bankruptcy though I found out they were pretty useless as allies, as I was waging war against Vijayanagar to get a truce out of them, and actually ended up having to cede a province to them). After the round of bankruptcy and setting the country back on track things actually seemed to be going well, I was finally back on track to annexing some of my vassals (Letting Khorasan become big and bloated was a costly mistake in this department) and I had embraced all institituions which, if I was given just a decade or two of peace would give me a good technological advantage over Vij who had no insitutuins other than Feudalism. So I figured just keep back and bide my time. Of course things don't often go as we want. Mamluks declare war against QQ, and I figured I can join and just sit this one out. Then the Ottomans who are, horrifically enough, allied with Russia, go against the Mamluks and, somehow I figured that I want to keep the alliance, which causes 100k+ (technologically superior) Turkish and Russian troops to come screaming at me and then Vijayanagar declares against me. Yeah, that's it. Gotta find a way to watch out for that debt if I attempt Mughals from Timurid vassal again I think (it was coming up on forced bankruptcy territory before I did it in a more controlled manner). Also need to manage vassals better, my big Khorasan march while useful for a while, actually ended up working against me ensuring they and all my other vassals picked up along the way ended up making all my vassals disloyal thus both unable to be annexed and no help in wars. I also never got the Sindhi ports, which would have been useful for the purpose of getting institutions set up much earlier. And don't ally anyone liable to get into a fight with the loving Ottomans. A Central Asian buffer state to keep Russia off also seems like it might be a useful thing eventually, especially if you end up still lagging a bit in tech and taking some time to conquer what you need in India.
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Oct 7, 2018 19:37
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Taungu is really fun though I haven't found any strategy for the very early game other than making allies and waiting for favours to build up so you can actually war someone, because the AI doesn't start any wars and everyone has a ton of allies for defensive CTAs. Now I'm basically AE capped by Ming which is a pretty scary place to be.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:27
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Communist Walrus posted:Write-in option: convert to Anglicanism, if it's present. You get the +stability and +mercantilism buttons from Catholicism, plus a free money button, and you accumulate church power much faster than pope points. Guess I’ll stay Catholic until this becomes an option. Austria (huge) are not catholic but my main ally Spain are.
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Oct 7, 2018 20:40
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It's easy to miss unless you notice something weird but apparently they did an undocumented change to make the base rate at which devastation recovers 0.5 / month, a more than sixfold increase. You no longer have single lovely low development provinces preventing you from gaining prosperity for decades, which is a really nice change.
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Oct 7, 2018 21:59
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RabidWeasel posted:It's easy to miss unless you notice something weird but apparently they did an undocumented change to make the base rate at which devastation recovers 0.5 / month, a more than sixfold increase. You no longer have single lovely low development provinces preventing you from gaining prosperity for decades, which is a really nice change. Oh thank god. This makes berber pirates significantly less annoying. Still annoying, but maybe not "must keep every single coastal province within a fort's ZoC forever" annoying.
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Oct 7, 2018 22:12
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Forts stop slave raids?
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Oct 7, 2018 23:08
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MaxieSatan posted:Forts stop slave raids? No, but they boost devastation recovery significantly.
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Oct 8, 2018 00:13
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I was about to murder someone because I always have forts giving ZOC but always get raided. So I am glad you explained. Still I wish they would either take raiding out of the game or give me an easy way to know how many ships I need patrolling to stop it.
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Oct 8, 2018 01:53
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MaxieSatan posted:Forts stop slave raids? The only thing which stops them is pirate hunting at 99% efficiency IIRC, which..doesn't cost as much as it sounds like, but isn't really cheap either.
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Oct 8, 2018 03:40
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Beamed posted:The only thing which stops them is
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Oct 8, 2018 03:58
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Red_Fred posted:Guess I’ll stay Catholic until this becomes an option. Austria (huge) are not catholic but my main ally Spain are. Anglican is only available if you have the Britannia DLC. I’m guessing you need to start a new game when you add DLC right?
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Oct 8, 2018 04:06
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Red_Fred posted:Anglican is only available if you have the Britannia DLC. I’m guessing you need to start a new game when you add DLC right? Unless Anglicanism is present (but not playable) in the non-Britannia DLC game, yes, probably. It's worth reiterating the "if it's present" part of my previous post because Britain gets to select from three options when Anglicanism spawns, and one of those options is to stick with its current religion and thereby keep Anglicanism from spawning. In my Britain game I went with the option to switch to Anglican and create a center of reformation in London. Did a great job of converting my provinces, but its reach was limited. France converted, but that was about it.
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Oct 8, 2018 04:51
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MaxieSatan posted:Forts stop slave raids? No but they should.
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Oct 8, 2018 06:18
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I found a nice bug with fort ZoC. If fort construction finishes midwar, that forts ZoC will be ignored for the duration of that war. Guess I'll wait with the wardec next time.
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Oct 8, 2018 06:32
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The devastation change was not intended. A hard coded constant was moved out to a scriptable define and it got assigned to it wrong value.
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Oct 8, 2018 08:58
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i dunno, didn't take the first time also devastation should matter more, not less
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Oct 8, 2018 09:14
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Groogy posted:The devastation change was not intended. A hard coded constant was moved out to a scriptable define and it got assigned to it wrong value. I expected this but it's still disappointing. With a few exceptions which aren't always applicable, there's only 2 ways to make devastation decrease more quickly; dump MP on it or build a fort. The former is using up the most valuable resource in the game and the latter has a relatively high cost, assuming that the fort is useless and will be deleted immediately afterwards. So the intended set up for devastation does nothing to change player behaviour other than making you want to not get your provinces seiged / blockaded. Prav posted:also devastation should matter more, not less I don't think that there's any way to make it matter without completely changing what it does, since the effects are so minor that the only meaningful impact it has is preventing you from gaining prosperity.
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Oct 8, 2018 09:32
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I have been trying to form Maya on ironman and it's very hard. There's a sort of urgency throughout the whole start of the playthrough because the faster you can pass all the reforms, the better chance you have of not being utterly clowned by the Europeans when they arrive. Additionally, you're playing in such a restricted gamespace because of the technology limitations - you can't explore or sail, you're just stuck in this little world of four Mayan states and six(ish?) Nahuatl states. I keep on restarting because the amount of possible options is so narrow that in ironman, it feels like any setback I face in unifying before the Europeans arrive will just be fatal. I am learning a lot about the game mechanics in very frustrating ways - I entered what seemed to be a pretty easy war, and then the Aztecs hired conditori and just stomped me, and I tried to take a province off one of the other states, but they'd lucked into some crazy good general and I ended up massively in debt from mercenaries in order to learn that it was a general I couldn't really beat. I'm mostly trying to do this Maya run because I already did it on non-ironman, and I think that the super narrow field of play and how all the countries are set up make mesoamerica an interesting sort of puzzle, but is this just sort of the nature of Ironman? That sometimes the simulation just spits out a problem that can't really be solved, and that the really hard starting countries (like the native americans) involve a lot more restarting? Does anyone have any advice? I have the initial unification of the mayan states and conquering the zapotec down to a consistent science, but beyond that things get a lot more messy depending on what the Nahautl states are doing.
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Oct 8, 2018 12:47
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Remember that Nahautl vassals tend to hate their overlords and if their liberty desire is over 50% they will only sit in their country rather than help out. You can also skip Zapotec to hit up Totonac and Mixtec; you share a coastal region with one of their provinces and thus are in coring range. Don't be afraid to truce break, especially right after completing a reform when you're weakest and the newly born countries have no military to speak of. And remember that Aztec's have better morale because of their religion; you will want the 10% infantry combat ability as soon as possible to help mitigate that.
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Oct 8, 2018 14:53
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Sage Grimm posted:Remember that Nahautl vassals tend to hate their overlords and if their liberty desire is over 50% they will only sit in their country rather than help out. I did not know either of these, thanks for the help!
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Oct 8, 2018 16:27
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Red Bones posted:I'm mostly trying to do this Maya run because I already did it on non-ironman, and I think that the super narrow field of play and how all the countries are set up make mesoamerica an interesting sort of puzzle, but is this just sort of the nature of Ironman? That sometimes the simulation just spits out a problem that can't really be solved, and that the really hard starting countries (like the native americans) involve a lot more restarting? Does anyone have any advice? I have the initial unification of the mayan states and conquering the zapotec down to a consistent science, but beyond that things get a lot more messy depending on what the Nahautl states are doing. fyi if you're playing a start with lots of initial state resetting, and playing ironman off a local save, it's not a sin to just copy that save and make copies of it when you're needing to start a new playthrough. I did it for my nagaur start which I never would've gotten anywhere with otherwise, having to replay those initial 20 years so often.
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Oct 8, 2018 16:54
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RabidWeasel posted:I don't think that there's any way to make it matter without completely changing what it does, since the effects are so minor that the only meaningful impact it has is preventing you from gaining prosperity. Isn't this still meaningful? My understanding is devastation's intended effect was to get you to actually give a crap about units running past your frontline and sieging down your heartland, which...it has totally done, at least to me. It breaking your prosperity is kinda frustrating yeah but I think that's the entire point. I was pretty disappointed to see them nerfing that so I'm glad it wasn't intended. I actually think devastation is one of the best/maybe the very best addition since institutions and I'd like to see more events/weather effects etc to see it actually happen beyond wars too since that was such a big thing historically. Although the way it interacts with coastal raiding is extremely bullshit yes.
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Oct 8, 2018 17:57
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It would be nice if prosperity was on a scale rather than being completely binary, so you don't get things like an enemy regiment taking a break for a few days in a 1/1/1 province and now suddenly your 50 dev capitol next to it is no longer prosperous.
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Oct 8, 2018 18:36
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I feel like that'd take a lot of the punch away. As-is the meter doesn't deplete instantly, so you can still get prosperity back faster than if you let them siege it down for longer even before actual devastation starts to set in. Besides it kind of makes sense. An enemy regiment marching right next to your capital would probably freak people out for a while.
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Oct 8, 2018 18:45
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Koramei posted:I feel like that'd take a lot of the punch away. As-is the meter doesn't deplete instantly, so you can still get prosperity back faster than if you let them siege it down for longer even before actual devastation starts to set in. It kind of does though? You lose prosperity instantly if there's any devastation in the state, even 0.01. And all it takes to get devastation is for a single enemy regiment (doesn't even have to be full strength) to be parked in your province when the month ticks over. And then for each month that goes by with greater than 0 devastation, it takes two months minimum to gain prosperity back. At the very least some kind of grace period before you lose prosperity would be nice.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:31
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You're right, I was confusing the loss of prosperity with the loss of the devastation meter thing. I don't think it needs changing though, it really makes sense that it'd cause you to lose prosperity. If you let enemies into your backlines you've already messed up.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:43
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I think it's mostly there to encourage more forts. Restrict the enemy from getting to your heartland , and it's a non-issue. Giving a grace period or the like wouldn't make it matter nearly as much.
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Oct 8, 2018 20:47
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The biggest lovely thing about devastation is how it interacts with taking new provinces. If you own all but 1 provinces in a state and it's prosperous, and then you conquer the remaining province, it goes away because the new province is all hosed up. There's no way to avoid this without dumping MP into the new province, and even then you have to core it first. If it didn't work directly on fort ZoCs but had some other mechanic in play as well (such as "there is an active fort within this state") it would be a lot less frustrating. It just feels like a really poo poo way of trying to make me build forts in poor defensive positions.
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Oct 8, 2018 21:16
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Koramei posted:You're right, I was confusing the loss of prosperity with the loss of the devastation meter thing. I don't think it needs changing though, it really makes sense that it'd cause you to lose prosperity. If you let enemies into your backlines you've already messed up. Except the AI doesn't waste dip points by going over their relations limit when they get military access, and also weak enemies (say, the ally of your war dec target) try to avoid engagement, so the AI will get access through a dozen countries in order to walk around and siege up something as far away from your armies as possible. Also the prosperity bonuses should scale rather than be all or nothing, especially the development cost reduction (you really want to seed institutions in a state with full prosperity)
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Oct 8, 2018 22:10
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Yeah playing small stack whackamole is pretty annoying. It just takes one misaligned fort and suddenly they’ve marched from Arabia to the caucuses to Warsaw 
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Oct 8, 2018 22:13
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I wish all the weather events in India would highlight the area it's going to effect. Like monsoons are hitting a grabglock area! Then it's 5 minutes of hunting around trying to find out where that is. More obvious map effects for weather (aside from snow) and for devastation levels would be nice too.
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Oct 8, 2018 22:22
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Family Values posted:Except the AI doesn't waste dip points by going over their relations limit when they get military access, and also weak enemies (say, the ally of your war dec target) try to avoid engagement, so the AI will get access through a dozen countries in order to walk around and siege up something as far away from your armies as possible. the whack a mole thing is pretty annoying but there's lots you as a human with a brain are able to do about it that the AI can't, I don't think that really invalidates the point of the mechanic. and I think AnoHito's on the money that if you made it scale it'd lose its impact. Yeah, development reduction is great, so how about you actually defend your territory so you can get that. I didn't have much of an opinion on it before but the more I think about the more I think prosperity being binary actually makes it way better, it's only annoying when it's combined with AI shenanigans, but that's not as big an issue as people make it out to be imo. The coastal raiding is though.
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Oct 8, 2018 22:34
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i got a real quick wallachia off the ground by no cb'ing moldavia's ally imeria. hungary breaks our royal marriage and a few weeks before i'm +1 reasons for a bohemia alliance hungary declares on me. i hate hungary so much, they've never once not betrayed me
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Oct 9, 2018 03:19
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Every time I play a Papal State game, which is once a patch, Hungary starts the game rivaled to me, so I never trust that turd over by Austria.
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Oct 9, 2018 03:39
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Hungary is gently caress all help against the Ottomans. They’re also just big enough that they can really tilt a war against you. All you can hope for as Walachia/Moldavia is that they don’t immediately get wrecked, so that you can take their whole southern border and sneak across into the western Balkans before you have to fight the Ottos.
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Oct 9, 2018 03:46
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Holy crap, that was close. Doing a Commonwealth run, have a Habsburg on the throne, Nobility War spawns. I spend a few years stomping on every minority possible now that you can't convert outside of stated and all orthodox/sunni hate me. I eventually win and centralize all that sweet power. Then I remember that my ruler is 86 years old and I have no heir. I marry everyone on the continent who will take a polish boy, girl or ostrich as spouse. After 4 months, I get a 2/5/2 heir and my ruler -immediately- dies, averting a sucession war between Castile and Muscovy. I hope he at least manage to hold the baby before croaking!
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Oct 9, 2018 03:58
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Are any of the post-Rights of Man DLC (Mandate of Heaven, Third Rome, Cradle of Civilization, Rule Brittania, and Dharma) must-buys or must-avoids? I'm getting back into the game but I remember mostly buying the DLC in clumps because they weren't all Art of War or Rights of Man.
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Oct 9, 2018 04:04
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Third Rome is an "immersion pack" for Russia, so if that's somewhere you like to play, go for it, otherwise you won't see much from it.
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Oct 9, 2018 04:23
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Cockblocktopus posted:Are any of the post-Rights of Man DLC (Mandate of Heaven, Third Rome, Cradle of Civilization, Rule Brittania, and Dharma) must-buys or must-avoids? I'm getting back into the game but I remember mostly buying the DLC in clumps because they weren't all Art of War or Rights of Man. I'd probably put Mandate of Heaven in that category at this point. The main problems it had on release aren't nearly as glaring anymore, and the diplomacy macro is the kind of thing where you never know how you lived without it.
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Oct 9, 2018 04:27
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Sephyr posted:Holy crap, that was close. Doing a Commonwealth run, have a Habsburg on the throne, Nobility War spawns. I spend a few years stomping on every minority possible now that you can't convert outside of stated and all orthodox/sunni hate me. I eventually win and centralize all that sweet I had this happen except no heir and i went in a PU under mega bohemia (who i had helped get mega) right as the 30YW had started. That sucker didn't last 30 years, but it took forever before i could get my independence back. That was in the run I abandoned once I saw they were doing a Poland patch. For the run I just started, I'm going to declare war on some idiot to avert the PU instead.
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Oct 9, 2018 17:13
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