|
Jedit posted:Celestia, maybe. Menara? LifeLynx posted:Citadels? Love Letter? I have a six year old, I know how painful it can be to be a gamer and have to suffer through cutesy roll-and-move games. I don't know either of yours Jedit, so thanks, I'll check those out! I don't know citadels either, I'll have a look, but love letter is probably a good shout, and actually yeah, Betrayal! Like, it's bad, but I own it because early on I thought it was good, and I think until you've experienced it being bad a fair bit, it's actually really fun and exciting, and it ticks a bunch of the boxes. Good calls.
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 18:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 07:03 |
|
|
!Klams posted:So, my work buddies expressed an interest in playing board games, but meant stuff like Game of life and mousetrap. They know I'm a board game nerd, and are tentatively open to new games, but semi reluctantly. Part of the charm for them seems to be the nostalgia. I get the vibe that the enjoyment from the two mentioned was more the 'experience generator' aspect, and the 'its cute putting pegs in the car / building the trap' physicality of it. We work in tech, so could imagine something engine-buildery going down well. Anyone got any good ideas for what I could drop that would be an easy sell? For physicality: family weight tile laying might work. Stuff like Azul, Kingdomino, bärenpark or carcassonne,
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 18:06
|
|
|
!Klams posted:So, my work buddies expressed an interest in playing board games, but meant stuff like Game of life and mousetrap. They know I'm a board game nerd, and are tentatively open to new games, but semi reluctantly. Part of the charm for them seems to be the nostalgia. I get the vibe that the enjoyment from the two mentioned was more the 'experience generator' aspect, and the 'its cute putting pegs in the car / building the trap' physicality of it. We work in tech, so could imagine something engine-buildery going down well. Anyone got any good ideas for what I could drop that would be an easy sell? Dominion springs to mind, it doesnt get much simpler than play a card, do the thing on the card. Between Two Cities isnt an engine builder but it captures the brainstorming and city planning idea well enough, and I always see lightbulbs going off for people when the final scoring happens. Suburbia is supposed to be more of an engine builder, but I havent played it
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 18:31
|
|
|
!Klams posted:So, my work buddies expressed an interest in playing board games, but meant stuff like Game of life and mousetrap. They know I'm a board game nerd, and are tentatively open to new games, but semi reluctantly. Part of the charm for them seems to be the nostalgia. I get the vibe that the enjoyment from the two mentioned was more the 'experience generator' aspect, and the 'its cute putting pegs in the car / building the trap' physicality of it. We work in tech, so could imagine something engine-buildery going down well. Anyone got any good ideas for what I could drop that would be an easy sell? I'll second Between Two Cities. Splendor is somewhat dull for more experienced board gamers, but I think it should go over fine with new players. Race for the Galaxy, Steampunk Rally, and Manhattan Project are much more complicated, but technophiles tend to be much more invested into theme than they are willing to admit. If they like Civ, maybe Flow of History will work well with them. Never underestimate people's ability to tolerate immensely complicated rules when they love the theme. golden bubble fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Oct 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 18:44
|
|
|
Just play 1830 with them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 18:45
|
|
|
!Klams posted:So, my work buddies expressed an interest in playing board games, but meant stuff like Game of life and mousetrap. They know I'm a board game nerd, and are tentatively open to new games, but semi reluctantly. Part of the charm for them seems to be the nostalgia. I get the vibe that the enjoyment from the two mentioned was more the 'experience generator' aspect, and the 'its cute putting pegs in the car / building the trap' physicality of it. We work in tech, so could imagine something engine-buildery going down well. Anyone got any good ideas for what I could drop that would be an easy sell? I’ve found Mysterium really popular with a variety of people, including ones who don’t really play board games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
Digirat posted:I’ve found Mysterium really popular with a variety of people, including ones who don’t really play board games. Seconding this. My wife and I played it at a friend's house for the first time last week and she had it ordered before we got home. She's not huge on games but really dug that one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 19:02
|
|
|
!Klams posted:I don't know either of yours Jedit, so thanks, I'll check those out! I don't know citadels either, I'll have a look, but love letter is probably a good shout, and actually yeah, Betrayal! Like, it's bad, but I own it because early on I thought it was good, and I think until you've experienced it being bad a fair bit, it's actually really fun and exciting, and it ticks a bunch of the boxes. Good calls. Yeah I owned Betrayal for that exact same reason. My first game involved a giant bird lifting the house up and there were only players/2 number of parachutes to go around and it took just the right number of turns before the haunt was triggered to give us all great equipment to fight once the traitor element was revealed. It's a great gateway drug into better boardgaming. I forgot Codenames which is a great party game, but you have to kind of judge your group before you bring it up because not everyone can think abstractly about clues. I heard Mysterium is really good too, though I've only seen it played on a Twitch stream.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 19:10
|
|
|
CaptainRightful posted:Here's the problem as we saw it: player with low cards begins sowing or stockpiling in the Winter zone while player with high cards harvests everywhere else. Having the biggest pile of cards is always good because it more than offsets having the most Winter cards. You can stockpile in the Winter zone, but there's no guarantee that the next player won't rotate the board and the player after them won't take your stockpile. As soon as someone starts stockpiling, the other players are incentivized to steal that stockpile or harvest faster than that player stockpiles. You can't count cards early in the game, so a player able to harvest immediately will always have the advantage over one who isn't. It's why the game doesn't work 2 player, the loss of opportunity is offset by there being more competition for the bonuses. Each stockpile and harvest reveals information you didn't have before. You can be incentived to steal all you want, if I have the only 8 left in the game then I know what I can safely create. It might be that the next player creates an opportunity for a player before me who steals what I was trying to set up, which in turn could very well open another opportunity. Early game is figuring out the gaps but mid-game you can make accurate guesses to comeback or mitigate loss. Almost every game I have with my veteran group there's always an end-of-round discussion that goes like "I knew you didn't have XYZ card because you sowed here instead of stockpiling, so I could safely dump XYZ in this field or play a face to turn winter towards this field so you couldn't scoop up a 3 + 6 + 4 with a king of summer I know one of you is holding."
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 19:13
|
|
|
al-azad posted:It's why the game doesn't work 2 player, the loss of opportunity is offset by there being more competition for the bonuses. Each stockpile and harvest reveals information you didn't have before. You can be incentived to steal all you want, if I have the only 8 left in the game then I know what I can safely create. It might be that the next player creates an opportunity for a player before me who steals what I was trying to set up, which in turn could very well open another opportunity. Early game is figuring out the gaps but mid-game you can make accurate guesses to comeback or mitigate loss. I flipped through the rulebook and listened to the rules explanation at the con, so i might be misremembering, but i thought it was only a legal move to stockpile if you had a card in your hand that could pick it up? I guess it's not really likely for some nerd project to actually match 'real' centuries-old trick-taking games in strategy and all. But they showed off the components, and it was very cute to see a box the size of a bagel full of stuff, and you use every part of the box and all of that stuff in the course of a game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 20:10
|
|
|
Got Endeavor today. How long does it take with setup and teardown? I know the gameplay is really fast and works well for a midweight euro but how much of a pain is setup? Are exploits worth using or are they just gimmicks?
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
At least with the original, setup to take down was 45 minutes or less with everyone helping. Don't know about any of the new stuff though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
Servoret posted:Is the promised Tash-Kalar app ever going to happen? I’ve never been able to get anyone I know into it. I guess I could play it on Board Game Arena, but I don’t really like doing real time play-by-web games. I would love this too, but I’m not sure it was ever promised (unlike the dungeon lords combat app). Vlaada did say in a design diary that an inspiration for the game was his ideal of a competitive 2p computer game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
When you hear Aldie say he doesn’t like the bidding in Keyflower and that drafting cards in Key Flow is somehow better, you better believe I’m revoking my donation to BGG this year. Anyway that’s my story.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 21:49
|
|
|
Speaking of Betrayal, apparently there's a Legacy version coming next month.quote:With its history shrouded by wild-eyed ravings and the scrawling of madmen, it was thought that no one would ever know the unholy origin of the house on the hill. My guess is that each game session is a generation and one player becomes the traitor and whether the traitor wins or loses dictates what happens in the next generation/session. I always thought Betrayal could have potential if it had some focus, so this might be it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 21:59
|
|
|
taser rates posted:At least with the original, setup to take down was 45 minutes or less with everyone helping. Don't know about any of the new stuff though. OK, good. By the way, the new box is as big as the EGG deluxe games and it is because of the player boards. If you ever imagined 4 Lisboa copies on a table together, that's Endeavor. Plus the map.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 22:00
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:OK, good. By the way, the new box is as big as the EGG deluxe games and it is because of the player boards. If you ever imagined 4 Lisboa copies on a table together, that's Endeavor. Plus the map. Hmm. That seems... excessive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 22:07
|
|
|
I'm really starting to lean more into the "don't bother with gateway games" side of this whole discussion. Just play games that you like that are good. A simpler game is ok for teaching mechanics, but beyond that, just play things that are good. They're your friends - you know how smart they are, and you presumably like the same things. Choose something based on how long of a game they want and go from there. Because if you get them hooked on Betrayal at the House on the Hill, the best-case scenario is that they hate it and never play games with you again, because the other option is that they love it and now you have to play loving Betrayal at the House on the Hill all the time. CommonShore fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Oct 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 22:16
|
|
|
Ceebees posted:I flipped through the rulebook and listened to the rules explanation at the con, so i might be misremembering, but i thought it was only a legal move to stockpile if you had a card in your hand that could pick it up? Right that's why stockpiling reveals so much information, but midway through the game you have a good idea of what is and isn't available so you can start making defensive plays.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 22:16
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:Y'know, my wife said the same thing, that it would go great as a star trek game. I only got it to the table once and am still playing in "see what happens" mode, but in that mode it wasn't bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 22:29
|
|
|
Beffer posted:Vlaada did say in a design diary that an inspiration for the game was his ideal of a competitive 2p computer game. I just looked at that. In fact, he says his original intent was to design a game that would be online only, not a tabletop game supporting more than two players. I thought the initial press from CGE was something like “this would be a great video game and we’re going to work on it after we get Through the Ages out!”, cue TTA taking years longer than expected to be released as an app. I know I bought the base set initially thinking Tash-Kalar was going to get one too, but maybe I was mistaken.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 22:29
|
|
|
!Klams posted:So, my work buddies expressed an interest in playing board games, but meant stuff like Game of life and mousetrap. They know I'm a board game nerd, and are tentatively open to new games, but semi reluctantly. Part of the charm for them seems to be the nostalgia. I get the vibe that the enjoyment from the two mentioned was more the 'experience generator' aspect, and the 'its cute putting pegs in the car / building the trap' physicality of it. We work in tech, so could imagine something engine-buildery going down well. Anyone got any good ideas for what I could drop that would be an easy sell? Potion Explosion's physicality is great. It's rare that taking your move is so rewarding, doubly so if you manage to actually explode a thing. It's also simple enough to maybe scratch that same child-glee that Mousetrap gives. Castles of Mad King Ludwig is also extremely precious.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 23:01
|
|
|
!Klams posted:So, my work buddies expressed an interest in playing board games, but meant stuff like Game of life and mousetrap. They know I'm a board game nerd, and are tentatively open to new games, but semi reluctantly. Part of the charm for them seems to be the nostalgia. I get the vibe that the enjoyment from the two mentioned was more the 'experience generator' aspect, and the 'its cute putting pegs in the car / building the trap' physicality of it. We work in tech, so could imagine something engine-buildery going down well. Anyone got any good ideas for what I could drop that would be an easy sell? This seems like ignoring your request but my standard broach games are things like A fake Artist goes to new York, Skull, Junk Art, Crokinole. These games generate good stories and open people's eyes to different possibilities, Then add something with rules. Mysterium is a good suggestion. The exception would be if you know there is a theme that will get them hook line and sinker. In which case jump straight to that. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 10, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 23:14
|
|
|
I'm proposing to run a Pax Ren PBF, sign up here
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 23:35
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:I'm really starting to lean more into the "don't bother with gateway games" side of this whole discussion. Just play games that you like that are good. A simpler game is ok for teaching mechanics, but beyond that, just play things that are good. They're your friends - you know how smart they are, and you presumably like the same things. Choose something based on how long of a game they want and go from there. Nah, they're work colleagues, I honestly don't know how they'll react. Like, I was watching a 'how its played' for potion explosion (looks like a great call btw, thanks!) and at the point he starts describing what all the different potions do as extra effects, I could just hear one of them going 'bloody hell how are we meant to remember all this poo poo?'. Like, I 100% agree with 'no gateway games' and trust that they're utterly capable of playing anything and everything, and capable of enjoying the good stuff. It's more just that up-front "having someone talk rules at you for 10 minutes" can be really offputting, and if I'm kind of pushing the limits of their goodwill and I exhaust it before we've started playing, I could imagine them writing it off as just placating me, from there on out, even if it turns out they enjoy it. Once I've taught them how to play a game or two, and they can see and trust that the payoff is worthwhile there would be more buy in for the ... not even necessarily deeper stuff, just stuff that's lengthier to teach, I guess. And, yeah as mentioned stuff that you can grok quicker with a more vivid theme is likely more appealing, just because you can go like: "Ok, we're wizards making potions, you have to get the right marbles to make the potions", and like, the rest of me talking from then on isn't so much 'rules', because at that point "They know all the rules", its just the pinickity details, they feel like listening to them is good because it will give them and edge in how to 'get the right marbles to make the potions'. Y'know?
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
LifeLynx posted:Speaking of Betrayal, apparently there's a Legacy version coming next month. This sounds appealing, especially if they really tailor the specific haunts. And after reading that, am I the only one who’d like to see a bit of 100 Years of Solitude in this? Or just a legacy game that expressed centuries long inter- and intra-family conflict?
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2018 23:55
|
|
|
!Klams posted:Nah, they're work colleagues, I honestly don't know how they'll react. Like, I was watching a 'how its played' for potion explosion (looks like a great call btw, thanks!) and at the point he starts describing what all the different potions do as extra effects, I could just hear one of them going 'bloody hell how are we meant to remember all this poo poo?'. Like, I 100% agree with 'no gateway games' and trust that they're utterly capable of playing anything and everything, and capable of enjoying the good stuff. It's more just that up-front "having someone talk rules at you for 10 minutes" can be really offputting, and if I'm kind of pushing the limits of their goodwill and I exhaust it before we've started playing, I could imagine them writing it off as just placating me, from there on out, even if it turns out they enjoy it. Once I've taught them how to play a game or two, and they can see and trust that the payoff is worthwhile there would be more buy in for the ... not even necessarily deeper stuff, just stuff that's lengthier to teach, I guess. And, yeah as mentioned stuff that you can grok quicker with a more vivid theme is likely more appealing, just because you can go like: "Ok, we're wizards making potions, you have to get the right marbles to make the potions", and like, the rest of me talking from then on isn't so much 'rules', because at that point "They know all the rules", its just the pinickity details, they feel like listening to them is good because it will give them and edge in how to 'get the right marbles to make the potions'. Y'know? Can you run stuff by them to see if they are interested, either by describing a game or sending them a video to try to avoid just showing up with something that bombs?
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 00:00
|
|
|
!Klams posted:So, my work buddies expressed an interest in playing board games, but meant stuff like Game of life and mousetrap. They know I'm a board game nerd, and are tentatively open to new games, but semi reluctantly. Part of the charm for them seems to be the nostalgia. I get the vibe that the enjoyment from the two mentioned was more the 'experience generator' aspect, and the 'its cute putting pegs in the car / building the trap' physicality of it. We work in tech, so could imagine something engine-buildery going down well. Anyone got any good ideas for what I could drop that would be an easy sell? Forbidden Desert has you building a little toy airship before piles of sand overwhelm you. It's quite easy to learn too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
!Klams posted:Nah, they're work colleagues, I honestly don't know how they'll react. Like, I was watching a 'how its played' for potion explosion (looks like a great call btw, thanks!) and at the point he starts describing what all the different potions do as extra effects, I could just hear one of them going 'bloody hell how are we meant to remember all this poo poo?'. Like, I 100% agree with 'no gateway games' and trust that they're utterly capable of playing anything and everything, and capable of enjoying the good stuff. It's more just that up-front "having someone talk rules at you for 10 minutes" can be really offputting, and if I'm kind of pushing the limits of their goodwill and I exhaust it before we've started playing, I could imagine them writing it off as just placating me, from there on out, even if it turns out they enjoy it. Once I've taught them how to play a game or two, and they can see and trust that the payoff is worthwhile there would be more buy in for the ... not even necessarily deeper stuff, just stuff that's lengthier to teach, I guess. And, yeah as mentioned stuff that you can grok quicker with a more vivid theme is likely more appealing, just because you can go like: "Ok, we're wizards making potions, you have to get the right marbles to make the potions", and like, the rest of me talking from then on isn't so much 'rules', because at that point "They know all the rules", its just the pinickity details, they feel like listening to them is good because it will give them and edge in how to 'get the right marbles to make the potions'. Y'know? This why I just laugh when people think gateway games are “condescending.”
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 05:50
|
|
|
The best "gateway game" is any game that has a theme the players find appealing. Pretty much anyone can handle a few rules if they're already engaged just by looking at the box.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 06:44
|
|
|
Jabor posted:The best "gateway game" is any game that has a theme the players find appealing. That or Galaxy Trucker.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 07:00
|
|
|
That's because everyone is interested in freight, even if they do not know it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 09:12
|
|
|
Mr. Squishy posted:That's because everyone is interested in plumbing, even if they do not know it. FTFY
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 09:38
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/FFGOP/status/1050102767568805888
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 12:50
|
|
|
Guessing there'll be an event at Spiel, then.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 13:16
|
|
|
al-azad posted:Designed by Keith Baker. The Decembrists provided the inspiration from a photo shoot in one of their Philemon until9 I At UK Games Expo, we demoed it with the who I think said he designed it...after he talked through the rules and how it worked, my friend said "Oh so it's [name of an old Italian card game]", which visually deflated the designer who admitted it was, but with the Decemberists flavour. I found it funny because it's 'sold' as the band coming to him with lots of imagery and asking him to make a game that seemed like it was a hundred years old, so without making it obvious, he just reskinned it onto a 100 year old game
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 13:30
|
|
|
Fat Turkey posted:At UK Games Expo, we demoed it with the who I think said he designed it...after he talked through the rules and how it worked, my friend said "Oh so it's [name of an old Italian card game]", which visually deflated the designer who admitted it was, but with the Decemberists flavour. I'm sure it's based on some obscure game as most modern card games are but the rotating board and tarot effects certainly aren't in any card game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 16:36
|
|
|
It sounds like Scopa.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 16:48
|
|
|
Yeah if you are introducing people to the hobby you should show them games you want to play. If they really like Betrayal, and don't like learning new games you are going to be stuck. Personally I'd do Azul, it doesn't take long to explain and the game play is in front of you. That's something that I think is really important in introducing, don't introduce new people to games where they get cards that no one is supposed to see. Dominion is fine because it can easily be played openly and the cards aren't unique, but other games where you deal out cards and people are supposed to make decisions on their own and no one else should see the cards are just a bad first experience.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 07:03 |
|
|
Mayveena posted:Yeah if you are introducing people to the hobby you should show them games you want to play. If they really like Betrayal, and don't like learning new games you are going to be stuck. Personally I'd do Azul, it doesn't take long to explain and the game play is in front of you. That's something that I think is really important in introducing, don't introduce new people to games where they get cards that no one is supposed to see. Dominion is fine because it can easily be played openly and the cards aren't unique, but other games where you deal out cards and people are supposed to make decisions on their own and no one else should see the cards are just a bad first experience. 100 percent agree with this. When introducing medium-to-heavy games to non board gamers, you don’t want them to have to weigh the benefits of giving away their secret stuff against asking questions. I would definitely use games with hidden info if we’re talking about lighter games. Avalon has always gone over well, and if someone reveals too much, it’s easy enough to just start a new game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2018 17:24
|
|