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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
Yeah, I mean more that it's useful if you are about to lose a campaign because the game is unwinnable now. Or, er, if a Gatekeeper nails your entire squad with a rift on turn 1. It's not as much use if you are chasing gold medals like a sucker.

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Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Fangz posted:

Yeah, I mean more that it's useful if you are about to lose a campaign because the game is unwinnable now. Or, er, if a Gatekeeper nails your entire squad with a rift on turn 1. It's not as much use if you are chasing gold medals like a sucker.

I restarted three times during the last set of missions. It took me two restarts on that mission with a huge berserker pack sitting on top of another set that I couldn't fight my way through and once when Bradford ate got seriously hosed by some RNG and died in the last mission. I still got gold though. The scoring seems more lenient on some mission sets than others.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Ravenfood posted:

I restarted three times during the last set of missions. It took me two restarts on that mission with a huge berserker pack sitting on top of another set that I couldn't fight my way through and once when Bradford ate got seriously hosed by some RNG and died in the last mission. I still got gold though. The scoring seems more lenient on some mission sets than others.

Huh, is it easier to get gold on nightmare? Or is this still on story?

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Fangz posted:

Huh, is it easier to get gold on nightmare? Or is this still on story?

I got it on nightmare, yes. I've noticed that kills and early-bird bonuses increase with harder enemies, so maybe you get more of a padding if you're on nightmare?

e: Also, I haven't played for over a year. Any decent class-packs or mods I need to know besides Evac All and the New Promotion Screen by Default mods? Are the cosmetic mods like Stenchfury and CapnBub's compatible with the new patch at all?

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Oct 12, 2018

WhiteHowler
Apr 3, 2001

I'M HUGE!
I played through the campaign of XCOM 2 a couple of times when it first came out (once on Veteran, once on Commander).

I didn't pick up War of the Chosen until this week, but holy poo poo the early game seems so much more difficult now. My fourth mission had snake dudes, a ton of Advent (including a Priest), a horde of Lost, and the Chosen assassin.

And me with four soldiers in basic starting gear. Even after letting the Lost soften up Advent a bit, I never felt like I had a chance. Full squad wipe, and I don't think any amount of savescumming would help (I generally don't reload unless I hit a bug or a really bad misclick).

I'm playing on Veteran, and I don't remember it being this hard, even on Commander.

I know, "git gud", but I've been playing these games since UFO Defense, and this feels almost as bad as the difficulty spikes in TFTD.

teethgrinder
Oct 9, 2002

WhiteHowler posted:

I played through the campaign of XCOM 2 a couple of times when it first came out (once on Veteran, once on Commander).

I didn't pick up War of the Chosen until this week, but holy poo poo the early game seems so much more difficult now. My fourth mission had snake dudes, a ton of Advent (including a Priest), a horde of Lost, and the Chosen assassin.

And me with four soldiers in basic starting gear. Even after letting the Lost soften up Advent a bit, I never felt like I had a chance. Full squad wipe, and I don't think any amount of savescumming would help (I generally don't reload unless I hit a bug or a really bad misclick).

I'm playing on Veteran, and I don't remember it being this hard, even on Commander.

I know, "git gud", but I've been playing these games since UFO Defense, and this feels almost as bad as the difficulty spikes in TFTD.
I didn't have much trouble with that mission. Obviously you use the chaining mechanic to handle the Lost. For the tougher enemies I just made a point of blowing up their cover with grenades, leaving them easily flanked. Had to do it anyway to even get shots at the assassin.

WhiteHowler
Apr 3, 2001

I'M HUGE!

teethgrinder posted:

I didn't have much trouble with that mission. Obviously you use the chaining mechanic to handle the Lost. For the tougher enemies I just made a point of blowing up their cover with grenades, leaving them easily flanked. Had to do it anyway to even get shots at the assassin.
Yeah, I basically took an entire turn getting the assassin (blew up her cover with a grenade, then focus fire/sword). Which worked great, but the next turn we got overrun by the remaining Advent and Lost.

Chaining Lost is fun and effective, but that early clip size is so limited.

I didn't see the game explicitly state what triggers Lost spawns, other than "loud noises". Does any combat do it? Just explosions? Just environmental explosions?

SlyFrog
May 16, 2007

What? One name? Who are you, Seal?
Could someone provide a current list of good mods that do not alter the game play/substance/rules, but are great for quality of life (like Evac All)?

Lima
Jun 17, 2012

Stop Wasting My Time
Free Camera Rotation
Yet Another F1
Show Health Values
EU Aim Rolls - Changes the game rules a little, but it prevents some faulty logic from giving enemies 100% crit against your soldiers in cover.

Captain Gordon
Jul 22, 2004

:10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux:

marshmallow creep posted:

For me the more difficult campaigns have been the ones with Lily as the specialist. She's quite good, but she's the only specialist and neither of those teams seem to get any medkits at all, so the absence of any healing on those teams has cost me one guy in each run, while I had no deaths in the first two. Losing four chances to put out fire or heal injuries or otherwise cover up a mistake is not really worth two minor damage auto-hits, imo.

Just fyi, hunkering down extinguishes fire.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Lima posted:

EU Aim Rolls - Changes the game rules a little, but it prevents some faulty logic from giving enemies 100% crit against your soldiers in cover.

This one’s really fundamental IMO even though it’s pretty much invisible.

I tend to view enemy chance to hit as chance for me to get hurt, and chance to crit a chance for me to get killed. Obviously I care about the latter the most.

Without the mod, a defensive buff like smoke grenade or aid protocol lowers the chance that I get hurt, but leaves the chance that I get killed exactly the same. So you spend your whole turn, and maybe an item or a skill on something that doesn’t affect the worst case outcome in any way. With the mod, things make sense again.

I have no idea why they changed it from enemy unknown.

Nordick
Sep 3, 2011

Yes.

Xarbala posted:

I want to download the gigantic real-world gun pack but I'm afraid it would utterly demolish these pristine load times firaxis worked so hard to pin down.

Go for it, I've got it and haven't noticed load times increasing.

What I do notice, however, is that with the amount of mods I have, the launcher takes a full minute to pop up after I hit "play" in Steam. :v: I blame my crippling voice pack addiction.

SlyFrog posted:

Could someone provide a current list of good mods that do not alter the game play/substance/rules, but are great for quality of life (like Evac All)?

Lima already gave some good recs above, but to add to that:

Instant Avenger Menus makes the strategy side zippier in several ways
Cost Based Ability Colours colours the action icons by how many actions they take/whether they're turn ending.
Robojumper's Squad Select makes the squad loadout screen more convenient in a lot of ways. Also lets you increase the default squad size via the mod config menu.

Nordick fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 12, 2018

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Hmm, the templar I started with doesn't have any attitudes, is that just a Templar thing because they don't have main guns?

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

SlyFrog posted:

Could someone provide a current list of good mods that do not alter the game play/substance/rules, but are great for quality of life (like Evac All)?

Gotcha Again

E: what causes random long pauses after an action is completed? Already have Stop Wasting My Time installed.

sean10mm fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Oct 12, 2018

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Xarbala posted:

Hmm, the templar I started with doesn't have any attitudes, is that just a Templar thing because they don't have main guns?

Yep. They have a unique pose.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Captain Gordon posted:

Just fyi, hunkering down extinguishes fire.

Oh I know, but gotta go fast for the early bird bonus.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

WhiteHowler posted:

I played through the campaign of XCOM 2 a couple of times when it first came out (once on Veteran, once on Commander).

I didn't pick up War of the Chosen until this week, but holy poo poo the early game seems so much more difficult now. My fourth mission had snake dudes, a ton of Advent (including a Priest), a horde of Lost, and the Chosen assassin.

And me with four soldiers in basic starting gear.

I think you need better gear by the fourth mission.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Is the DJ voiced by the same guy who was the Radioman in Spec Ops The Line? He sounds really familiar.

Nordick
Sep 3, 2011

Yes.

Speedball posted:

Is the DJ voiced by the same guy who was the Radioman in Spec Ops The Line? He sounds really familiar.

I checked IMDb and, yes, Jake Busey did that too.

Phetz
Nov 7, 2008

Daddy like...
Fun Shoe

Speedball posted:

Is the DJ voiced by the same guy who was the Radioman in Spec Ops The Line? He sounds really familiar.

Yeah, Jake Busey.

Exodee
Mar 30, 2011

Damp and depressing.
It must be a goon in its
natural habitat!

WhiteHowler posted:

I played through the campaign of XCOM 2 a couple of times when it first came out (once on Veteran, once on Commander).

I didn't pick up War of the Chosen until this week, but holy poo poo the early game seems so much more difficult now.
If you want to make things easier for yourself, setup your game (in the advanced options) to start at the Templar HQ. A Templar with the Parry ability can basically 1v1 any enemy, which makes the Chosen much more manageable. Plus, their 100% accuracy makes them a godsend when you're still stuck with low-ranked soldiers.

WhiteHowler posted:

I didn't see the game explicitly state what triggers Lost spawns, other than "loud noises". Does any combat do it? Just explosions? Just environmental explosions?
AFAIK it's just explosions, though this does include flashbangs and the like IIRC.

Fangz posted:

I think you need better gear by the fourth mission.
Nah, it should be quite doable with basic gear. After all, you get a harder version on Legend where the slower progression means that you couldn't have teched up for it no matter what you do.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

I actually went years without knowing Jake Busey was in this bc I never visited the bar / memorial, which is the only place his clips play

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Exodee posted:

Nah, it should be quite doable with basic gear. After all, you get a harder version on Legend where the slower progression means that you couldn't have teched up for it no matter what you do.

I think they actually slow down the enemy progression on Legend.

Nordick
Sep 3, 2011

Yes.

Basic Chunnel posted:

I actually went years without knowing Jake Busey was in this bc I never visited the bar / memorial, which is the only place his clips play

This isn't true though, his clips are a part of the standard "ambient narrative" rotation. They play for me anywhere on the Avenger all the time. :shrug:

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.

PlasticAutomaton posted:

Ahahahaha oh my god the last mission of campaign two is bullshit.

You know, just a small map, with three pods containing 3 Avatars, an andromeddon, a sectopod, and a Gatekeeper, along with a Lid, Codex, and Muton shoved in. I don't think it's possible to avoid fighting multiple pods at once on this map and the classes they give you are REALLY BAD at handling this stuff. Overwatch medic specialist with no hacking, a bizarrely built Templar, a gunslinger sniper (who would normally be great but you have limited ways to actually strip armor in this squad), Bradford's inconsistently built stuff... My kingdom for a single grenadier.

Even without armor shred this was the easiest last mission for me. Mind control an Andromeda, utilize the shipping crate up in the air with your sniper, use your psi OP for armor ignoring damage and stasis to single out targets. Use Bradford in the front with the chosen katana to Rules Of Nature stragglers, blademaster chryssalids , and hunt the avatars out of heavy cover.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Fangz posted:

I think they actually slow down the enemy progression on Legend.

Yep, Legendary means you run into your first Priests/Stun Lancers on mission 4 usually and Sneks are still a while off

Exodee
Mar 30, 2011

Damp and depressing.
It must be a goon in its
natural habitat!
That's a good point actually, although I distinctly remember getting a reinforcement pod with an officer and two stun lancers on a second Legendary mission.

Still, a Snek should be quite doable with basic gear I'd reckon, unless the game throws a whole bunch of them your way?

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Nordick posted:

This isn't true though, his clips are a part of the standard "ambient narrative" rotation. They play for me anywhere on the Avenger all the time. :shrug:

They didn't use to play for me very much--I think WotC made them play more often, but in my experience visiting the bar/memorial will usually trigger one.

Fuzzykins
Nov 24, 2013

Exodee posted:

AFAIK it's just explosions, though this does include flashbangs and the like IIRC.
And time right? I thought explosions just sped it up

Exodee
Mar 30, 2011

Damp and depressing.
It must be a goon in its
natural habitat!

Fuzzykins posted:

And time right? I thought explosions just sped it up
Yeah, now that you mention it they probably use the same integer for it, but don't quote me on that. Certain events (such as rescuing the stranded operative or letting their machine gun run out) makes a bunch of them spawn every turn as well, as a separate thing.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

"An old folk remedy that requires cutting something out of those snake chicks" oh, so people out in the sticks discovered Advanced Medkits too huh? Heh.

DrManiac
Feb 29, 2012

I wish the game let you see the detail for equipment in the legacy missions. There's so much stuff I never bothered with like gas grenades.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Phetz posted:

Yeah, Jake Busey.

I knew it! God, all that was missing was him whispering "Now, be careful, Bradford. You gotta keep your cool. Because the last thing you want... IS FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW WHERE YOU ARE!!!!"

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Exodee posted:

That's a good point actually, although I distinctly remember getting a reinforcement pod with an officer and two stun lancers on a second Legendary mission.

Still, a Snek should be quite doable with basic gear I'd reckon, unless the game throws a whole bunch of them your way?

Yeah, reinforcement pods can be pulled from a force level above what the mission would normally have.

It can be uh, rough.

Exodee
Mar 30, 2011

Damp and depressing.
It must be a goon in its
natural habitat!

Zore posted:

Yeah, reinforcement pods can be pulled from a force level above what the mission would normally have.

It can be uh, rough.
That explains a lot! They're not included in the mission's normal "budget" either are they? So you'll get 4 squads instead of the usual 3 in an early mission, on top of them dropping in during a firefight.

in which case what the hell were they thinking with those

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

I haven’t gotten to those missions yet but if there’s an evac I’d imagine strong reinforcement pods are a “get to the chopper” incentive.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Basic Chunnel posted:

I haven’t gotten to those missions yet but if there’s an evac I’d imagine strong reinforcement pods are a “get to the chopper” incentive.

Its any mission with reinforcements and can include mission types that require you to kill all enemies (like hack the train missions).

Its a pretty rare chance to roll the higher force level reinforcements but it can absolutely stop a legendary playthrough dead if you're unlucky enough to have it happen on mission 2.


... i have played the first few months of Legendary way too many times ama.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
Starting with a Reaper is the easiest way to survive Legendary. A free promotion and the best scouting you can ask for. Make sure the reaper gets kills so you can buy Squad Sizes at the GTS asap. No better force multiplier than another gun and grenade.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Bogart posted:

Starting with a Reaper is the easiest way to survive Legendary. A free promotion and the best scouting you can ask for. Make sure the reaper gets kills so you can buy Squad Sizes at the GTS asap. No better force multiplier than another gun and grenade.

Templar smooths out the first 3 or so missions more which helps get over the hump more imo. Reapers feel like a liability a lot early on since you're trying to handle everything with 3 soldiers so you don't waste Shadow. I'd even rather have a Skirmisher early on since they offer the utility of being able to 90% kill an officer/Stun Lancer with one character (between Justice/shooting them) which is huge.

Reaper works really well as the second faction soldier, once you can actually rely on your other dudes to kill things.

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Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
Man, couldn’t disagree more. Templar runs out, maybe hits a low power grunt for a kill, but then he’s exposed and probably gonna get shot, if he doesn’t wake another pod too. The reaper shouldn’t remain in shadow the whole mission. They start with a free charge for a reason.

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