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There's also an IDW Star Wars Adventures series Tales from Vader's Castle.
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Oct 13, 2018 02:59
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X-O posted:Not sure what you picked up but the book he was taken off of was just announced like a week ago and doesn’t come out until January I think. Ah yes. My friend was confused and he got me confused. Not that it makes any of this ok.
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Oct 13, 2018 03:48
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gently caress Marvel. An employer who won’t stand with their employee when said employee is being harassed with poo poo like death threats is a poo poo employer. Oh no, you said a BAD WORD. For saying a BAD WORD you get punishment! The person who said they’d kill you in a complete sentence with correct grammar and spelling said it nicely. You should behave nicely and not defend yourself when someone says they’ll hurt you and your family. Decades of practice against PoC and LGBTQ and we didn’t pay attention or give a poo poo, now it’s real easy to tear a straight white guy down.
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Oct 13, 2018 03:52
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https://twitter.com/abrahamjoseph/status/1050818173640028162?s=21 Marv Wolfman/Bullseye, if I had to guess (don’t think there’s any other major live-action superhero thing that’s close enough that premiere invite lists would be a thing)
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Oct 13, 2018 04:07
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:gently caress Marvel. An employer who won’t stand with their employee when said employee is being harassed with poo poo like death threats is a poo poo employer. Oh no, you said a BAD WORD. For saying a BAD WORD you get punishment! The person who said they’d kill you in a complete sentence with correct grammar and spelling said it nicely. You should behave nicely and not defend yourself when someone says they’ll hurt you and your family. man, I wish this was unusual but I've worked in two (2) casinos blackjack dealers getting death threats, waitresses getting propositions, player's got money though so y'know whatever companies are poo poo and they see employees as expendable, gotta keep that customer happy (even if the customer is a nazi and might not even actually be a customer)
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Oct 13, 2018 04:22
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Nuns with Guns posted:His real name is Theodore Beale. Vox Day is his pen name that's a pun on his egomania. He's a frustrated scifi author who decided the Sad Puppies that hijacked the Hugo Awards weren't explicitly racist enough so he formed the Rabid Puppies to be their extreme wing. He has an unhealthy hatred of NK Jemisin, and has said deeply racist things about her in various interviews. He's also inserted himself into both gamergate and now comicsgate to fleece alt-righters since he incinerated all his bridges in mainstream publishing. He's basically Milo Yiannopoulos if Milo had decided to be a lame scifi nerd instead of himself. I have been following ComicsGate's shenanigans for a while, with special focus on Vox and Ethan Van Sciver. If anyone would like to read up on the most recent shenanigans involving Vox's IGG campaign being canceled, here's a link to a column I wrote on it: https://twitter.com/IAmDeathRay/status/1050831097012064257
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Oct 13, 2018 05:48
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As much as I understand getting angry at the comicsgate people, I think Joe Quesada's approach has been the best. He has done more to show the stupidity of comicsgaters by being civil than any amount of shouting and ranting.
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Oct 13, 2018 07:19
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It's possible/likely that it was comicgaters are who made Marvel editorial aware, Wendig's tweets weren't in reference to comicsgate, the were about a rapist being nominated to the Supreme Court.
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Oct 13, 2018 07:27
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Oasx posted:As much as I understand getting angry at the comicsgate people, I think Joe Quesada's approach has been the best. He has done more to show the stupidity of comicsgaters by being civil than any amount of shouting and ranting.  LGBTQ people have to defend their right to exist in the marketplace of ideas
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Oct 13, 2018 07:44
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If Wendig was having a go at some random person on Twitter - if it was, like, Alice Smith @PennsylvaniaHousewife or something - then maybe he should be reprimanded for that (probably not sacked, though), but Dinesh D'Souza and Ben Shapiro have made careers of being professional right-wing trolls. These guys make lovely movies about how Obama is the Anti-Christ and go on news channels to pontificate about how Hillary Clinton is behind a vast conspiracy of paedophiles. They can probably survive a guy who isn't even a good writer being rude to them on the social media.
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Oct 13, 2018 07:53
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Wheat Loaf posted:If Wendig was having a go at some random person on Twitter - if it was, like, Alice Smith @PennsylvaniaHousewife or something - then maybe he should be reprimanded for that (probably not sacked, though), but Dinesh D'Souza and Ben Shapiro have made careers of being professional right-wing trolls. These guys make lovely movies about how Obama is the Anti-Christ and go on news channels to pontificate about how Hillary Clinton is behind a vast conspiracy of paedophiles. They can probably survive a guy who isn't even a good writer being rude to them on the social media.
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Oct 13, 2018 08:16
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420 Gank Mid posted:
Of course they do, but by shouting at various assholes on twitter you are just playing into their narrative. "See, we don't actually hate women/people of color/LGBTQ people, we just want comics without politics, and now pros are insulting us hard working fans on social media." I just think there are better ways of fighting back, and pointing out the hypocrisy of comicsgate
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Oct 13, 2018 08:18
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Oasx posted:Of course they do, but by shouting at various assholes on twitter you are just playing into their narrative. "See, we don't actually hate women/people of color/LGBTQ people, we just want comics without politics, and now pros are insulting us hard working fans on social media." There were people who tried being civil to these people way back to gamergate. It did not work.
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Oct 13, 2018 08:35
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Oasx posted:Of course they do, but by shouting at various assholes on twitter you are just playing into their narrative. "See, we don't actually hate women/people of color/LGBTQ people, we just want comics without politics, and now pros are insulting us hard working fans on social media. People thought the exact same thing about nazis in the 1930's and guess what, debating them didnt work https://twitter.com/studentactivism/status/1007303298347659267 e. also quote:I just think there are better ways of fighting back, and pointing out the hypocrisy of comicsgate relevant bit from Sartre's "Anti-Semite and Jew" about "pointing out the hypocrisy"  420 Gank Mid fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Oct 13, 2018 |
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Oct 13, 2018 08:41
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There's absolutely no reason anyone should have to be the slightest bit polite to right-wing chuds, propagandists, and grifters, and Marvel's done more to legitimize them by firing people for saying mean things to them than any amount of name-calling Chuck Wendig may have done.
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Oct 13, 2018 08:42
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Oasx posted:As much as I understand getting angry at the comicsgate people, I think Joe Quesada's approach has been the best. He has done more to show the stupidity of comicsgaters by being civil than any amount of shouting and ranting. Whatever good Joe has achieved, has been undone by Marvel when they fired Wendig for his lack of decorum. I will concede that sometimes you'll meet a person who is open to discussion and has the possibility to be persuaded by it, but they are certainly not a person who proudly shout online about SJW's and participate in online harassment campaigns. edit: to clarify, by "Sometimes" I mean: I've only met one or two people in my entire life that were persuaded by a reasonable discussion. DONT TOUCH THE PC fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Oct 13, 2018 |
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Oct 13, 2018 10:51
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None of the nazis will be persuaded by nice words. All the nazis can be persuaded with a curb stomp.
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Oct 13, 2018 13:24
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Lurdiak posted:Once again, the myth of civility is used to empower fascists.
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Oct 13, 2018 13:36
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wrong thread
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Oct 13, 2018 14:11
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Death Ray posted:I have been following ComicsGate's shenanigans for a while, with special focus on Vox and Ethan Van Sciver. If anyone would like to read up on the most recent shenanigans involving Vox's IGG campaign being canceled, here's a link to a column I wrote on it: In cheery news, I am delighted Day found out he wasn't getting the money when it about close enough for him to count. Of course I'm dead certain that whatever platform Day uses to tell his followers to go harass people will quickly aw it's YouTube.
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Oct 13, 2018 14:46
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Take it with a grain of salt (or just call everyone involved nazi-kissing fascist enabling fuckwad shitneck pissgoblin fuckshit assghouls) but in a (since deleted) tweet: If this is the case it's just Mark Paniccia who is a Hitler loving loving fuckshit quisling lickspittle dickwad. Unless de Campi is a misinformed loving moron who should go hang a loving fasces in her shithut because she is horny for Nazis like some sort of decorum fucker. Maybe everyone at Marvel needs to put a shitgun into their assmouth and pull the fucktrigger because they can't loving handle a little loving language against loving Nazis if you loving say one bad word about them they loving poo poo their rear end in a top hat loving baby loving pants gently caress AND IF YOU DON'T APPROVE OF THIS YOU ARE A NAZI.
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Oct 13, 2018 15:32
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Edge & Christian posted:Take it with a grain of salt (or just call everyone involved nazi-kissing fascist enabling fuckwad shitneck pissgoblin fuckshit assghouls) but in a (since deleted) tweet:  I like when your posts read like meltdowns and this being about people calling nazis "nazis" is 
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Oct 13, 2018 16:11
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I don't know anything about Mark Paniccia's relative competence or incompetence at his job. Maybe somebody with more inside-baseball knowledge about him can shed light on what "famously not good" means here (rash? not good at reading a room?), but I'm getting the impression from your post that what you're taking from de Campi is that he just earnestly thought Wendig's tweets were in bad taste?
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Oct 13, 2018 16:11
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it's pretty astounding that Paniccia is known to be lovely enough that creators are willing to shittalk him on twitter and Marvel's response to this was just have him and Jordan D. White switch desks
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Oct 13, 2018 16:44
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Oasx posted:Of course they do, but by shouting at various assholes on twitter you are just playing into their narrative. "See, we don't actually hate women/people of color/LGBTQ people, we just want comics without politics, and now pros are insulting us hard working fans on social media." gently caress Off
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Oct 13, 2018 16:56
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Mr Hootington posted:
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Oct 13, 2018 17:11
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Archyduke posted:I don't know anything about Mark Paniccia's relative competence or incompetence at his job. Maybe somebody with more inside-baseball knowledge about him can shed light on what "famously not good" means here (rash? not good at reading a room?), but I'm getting the impression from your post that what you're taking from de Campi is that he just earnestly thought Wendig's tweets were in bad taste? 1) There are a lot of people employed as staff or employees at Marvel who have spoken out against Comicsgate, the alt-right, GOP operatives, the Trump Administration, etc. without losing work or getting censured publicly. Ascribing this to "Marvel" collectively is probably a mistake, all evidence is that this was a decision made by one particular person at Marvel. It's not a good decision, and Paniccia is still a Marvel employee but we have no idea how this was passed through the process at Marvel, so immediately jumping to it being Perlmutter/Quesada/Cebulski/I dunno, Bob Iger or Kathleen Kennedy or something seems wrong. 2) Many of the aforementioned critics of Republicans/fascists/racists/bigots did not immediately jump to the Warren Ellis school of FUCKKNOBS AND BROOMSHITS, THE ASSCHICKENS ARE COMING HOME TO PISSROOST levels of firehose vitriol which ought not to be a fireable offense but I am both surprised and not surprised that some posts in the thread do not differentiate between the two. Basically from all evidence (and I do not know that much about Paniccia's track record either) it seems like this was a) a decision made specifically by one editor b) whatever rubric was used for it was not solely "speaks out against fascism", though I have no idea whatever else. Also (as someone who has had mean things said to them online by Slott, Spencer, Wacker, Waid, and a bunch of other current Marvel employees) there is a measurable difference between their level of "heh you clearly don't understand my Spider-Man run, hypocrite much, u mad?" and recreating the Wu-Tang torture skit in tweet form, so even if this was purely it's still not a "attack fans and marginalized groups good, attack confirmed Nazis like Jeff Flake, bad!"Even the fact that Kieron Gillen, who was attacked when he spoke out against the original Gamergate, and has spoken out against Comicsgate, who has expressed nice things about socialism repeatedly, who has literally raised money with his comics for Planned Parenthood, who wrote Marvel's first gay kiss and has creator-owned work chock full of LGBTQIA characters who make out and attack bigots and have abortions, is currently gainfully employed by the Marvel Star Wars office and in fact launched the first ongoing Star Wars comic starring a queer female (or just female, or just queer) character that he created for the Marvel Star Wars office suggests that this is not Marvel cracking down on the left or banning progressive thought or only hiring *gate approved creators. I don't think Chuck Wendig should have been fired, though I also think that if Marvel (or any company) cares about this sort of thing they ought to have some sort of clear and formal code of conduct for creators. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Oct 13, 2018 |
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Oct 13, 2018 17:21
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site posted:gently caress Why did Oasx deserve that response? There ARE better ways to defeat ComicsGate... if you really want that. If there is an "anti-ComicsGate" movement, it is plainly not succeeding using its current tactics.
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Oct 13, 2018 17:28
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Because calling for civility and decorum are some of the right's favorite ways to silence marginalized people who are literally being told their lives do not matter and getting, very understandably, upset about this. This isn't a polite academic debate for marginalized people, it's very much life or death.
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Oct 13, 2018 17:42
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Also God bless Death Ray for putting up with Uncle Ethan saying without irony and a straight face ' WE TOOK YOUR BISHOP' in regards to Wendig.
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Oct 13, 2018 17:43
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Death Ray posted:Why did Oasx deserve that response? You mean besides being told that capitulation to the nazis is how we "win" and that doing so will somehow magically make them not want me dead anymore? Are you really so naïve to think that would work? Reminder that they started this whole thing just because we dared exist
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Oct 13, 2018 17:44
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Dawgstar posted:Also God bless Death Ray for putting up with Uncle Ethan saying without irony and a straight face ' WE TOOK YOUR BISHOP' in regards to Wendig. The fact that he feels a need to respond to me at all proves he doesn't know how to play this game > 
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Oct 13, 2018 17:49
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site posted:You mean besides being told that capitulation to the nazis is how we "win" and that doing so will somehow magically make them not want me dead anymore? Yes. Besides that. First, explain to me, in your own words, what "defeating" ComicsGate would mean? I'm not talking about waving a magic wand. I mean this: If there were an actual way to "defeat" them what could the result possibly look like?
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Oct 13, 2018 17:52
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Death Ray posted:Yes. Besides that. It involves a gutter and a sign saying "WILL WORK FOR FOOD".
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Oct 13, 2018 17:55
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I dont take homework assignments from nazis arguing in bad faith
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Oct 13, 2018 17:56
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Edge & Christian posted:My point(s) were: Per #1, a lot of the reaction to this that I'm seeing-- and granted, this is on Twitter moreso than in this thread-- is that notwithstanding who made the call to have him fired, there should have been either some system to vet that decision, or some mechanism for him to have seen it coming, basically some form of safety net in place so that he wasn't suddenly out a gig for posting largely the same as he's seemingly posted since well before he had a Marvel contract. As you mention, making angry tweets probably shouldn't be a fireable offense, and if a company decides that it should be, its employees should be made aware of that so that they're not blindsided. I guess one could ask "well, what did he think would happen," but again, for better or worse from poking around that just seems to be how he's tweeted for a pretty long time, so what he thought would happen was presumably, and reasonably, "not getting fired." It's not impossible that Wendig is telling an incomplete version of the story but going off his account it seems like "I have no idea whatever else" the rubric for his canning was pertains on his end as well. In this regard I guess it has less to do with ComicsGate-- although it certainly has to do with the cultural climate that ComicsGate has exacerbated-- and more to do with labor? That's why I'm legit curious about de Campi's tweet about Paniccia, because even if this isn't necessarily a story about Marvel circling wagons around the alt-right, it still definitely seems like it's a story about a pretty lovely boss. In other words I think it's generally less that people are upset that Chuck Wendig got fired for making rude and rowdy tweets and more about the precedent it sets about what's a fireable offense at Marvel social-media wise. I think people are justifiably on edge about this especially after the whole thing with Jessica Price and ArenaNet this past Summer, and the idea that if a NYT best-selling author with every form of social kevlar available could be fired due to a (by his account) first-offense social media gaffe, it doesn't bode well for the future job security of creators in much more precarious and vulnerable positions who also deal more directly, perhaps, and more immediately with online harrassment. Like, yeah, slinging sub-Maddox kennings at celebrities is perhaps not a good look, but a marginalized creator being singled out by bigots surely can't look to this incident as encouraging when trying to decide how to respond to targeted abuse. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Oct 13, 2018 |
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Oct 13, 2018 18:02
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site posted:I dont take homework assignments from nazis arguing in bad faith For those paying attention, here is example "one" of why people who hate ComicsGate are constantly frustrated by their inability to thwart it. I asked a reasonable question, and was called a "Nazi" for it, when anyone who is at all familiar with my efforts knows that I am actually working harder than most to subvert ComicsGate. So, the lesson for today is: Know who your allies are , and don't call them names.
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Oct 13, 2018 18:06
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Jedit posted:It involves a gutter and a sign saying "WILL WORK FOR FOOD". Let us say that this means de-funding the business aspect of the movement. How would you achieve this? (These are all honest questions, by the way, and asked in good faith.)
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Oct 13, 2018 18:08
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Death Ray posted:Yes. Besides that. The only thing that really seems to hurt chuds in a meaningful sense is economic deplatforming. To an extent this means literal deplatforming. Alex Jones is a great example of this in action. People have written hundreds of takedowns and counterarguments about why Alex Jones is a fearmongering huckster rear end in a top hat pushing repugnant narratives about crisis actors while selling bogus health-scam junk to gullible morons, many of which I'm sure were quite eloquent and didn't involve a single swear-word, and yet the only thing that seems to have meaningfully affected him in any real sense was when the major social media outlets of the world decided to finally drop him from their services. Vox Day getting his project on IndieGoGo shut down with no money going out is another example which I'm sure is far more impactful than any number of educational breakdowns of why Vox Day is an unpleasant person. There's another angle to this sort of thing as well which is that a corporation can simply tell a bunch of dumb assholes "we don't actually care about your business" which is something that I strongly suspect would, if not banish lovely harassment movements to the Shadow Realm, at least not serve to legitimize and empower them the way that firing people for saying mean things about them does. By firing people over stuff like this what it does is send the message, however unintended, that comicsgate and/or the broader alt-right (I have no idea if Mike Cernovich gives poo poo one about comics or not) is an important and influential movement that companies should treat with the same consideration and respect as anyone else. Instead they should be told, in no uncertain terms, that the companies don't care about them, their feelings, or their business, that they're absolutely 100% right in that comics aren't for them anymore and that's by design. They should also probably stop firing people from saying mean things about them, even if those mean things involve lots of cusses. There are better ways to handle that sort of thing internally than jumping straight to firing people anyway. Death Ray posted:For those paying attention, here is example "one" of why people who hate ComicsGate are constantly frustrated by their inability to thwart it. I asked a reasonable question, and was called a "Nazi" for it, when anyone who is at all familiar with my efforts knows that I am actually working harder than most to subvert ComicsGate. And on the other hand this post of yours made my eyes roll so hard I think I sprained something.
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Oct 13, 2018 18:15
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Archyduke posted:Per #1, a lot of the reaction to this that I'm seeing-- and granted, this is on Twitter moreso than in this thread-- is that notwithstanding who made the call to have him fired, there should have been either some system to vet that decision, or some mechanism for him to have seen it coming, basically some form of safety net in place so that he wasn't suddenly out a gig for posting largely the same as he's seemingly posted since well before he had a Marvel contract. DC Comics seems to have an official and public one as of earlier this year. I can see how portions of this are kind of dicey: quote:You may want to refrain from engaging with individuals who may be speaking negatively about you, other talent, DC, our fans and the comics industry as this is a no-win situation. quote:In addition, comments that may be considered insulting, cruel, rude, crass and mean spirited are against company policy and guidelines. But in DC's defense, they broke ties with people like Ethan Van Sciver and Mike S. Miller (again) so they appear to be applying this sort of policy equally, and (while it's a weird, weird, case study) took threats against Tom King seriously enough to hire him a bodyguard at SDCC, one who appears to be a not-good person, but they're doing something. I can't find a link but I seem to recall that Marvel did something like this in private earlier in the year, but it doesn't appear to have been made public. Whatever it is, if we take Wendig on good faith he never received anything concrete. quote:As you mention, making angry tweets probably shouldn't be a fireable offense, and if a company decides that it should be, its employees should be made aware of that so that they're not blindsided. quote:In this regard I guess it has less to do with ComicsGate-- although it certainly has to do with the cultural climate that ComicsGate has exacerbated-- and more to do with labor? That's why I'm legit curious about de Campi's tweet about Paniccia, because even if this isn't necessarily a story about Marvel circling wagons around the alt-right, it still definitely seems like it's a story about a pretty lovely boss.
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Oct 13, 2018 18:20
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