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LinYutang posted:Bernie has really high name recognition. yes, which is why he consistently polls 2nd and why there's a huge dropoff after that
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Oct 15, 2018 10:13
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1051771373041922049 https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1051778204208377861
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Oct 15, 2018 12:00
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WHY? Why do this?
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Oct 15, 2018 12:24
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I seem to recall some posters in this forum who advocated she do exactly this a few months ago. I'm conflicted. I think it's roughly on par with the time Obama released his long-form birth certificate--on the one hand, why give the morons and racists what they want? On the other, if it does show she has Native ancestry, it effectively neutralizes the argument for the Presidential election except among people who would never have voted for her in the first place.
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Oct 15, 2018 12:35
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Obama did it right I think, not sure on this one (especially the 1/512th part), but I'm very wary of the "whole PR rollout" thing. Better to have the test done then just wait for a reporter to ask her about it on the campaign trail, because they would.
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Oct 15, 2018 12:42
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DynamicSloth posted:Obama did it right I think, not sure on this one (especially the 1/512th part), but I'm very wary of the "whole PR rollout" thing. Better to have the test done then just wait for a reporter to ask her about it on the campaign trail, because they would. I don't know. Doing it now makes it so that it has two years to slip into the public's consciousness. We're dumb, scared animals by nature, and between Scott Brown and Donald Trump we've been exposed to "Pocahontas" for six years. Now, for two years, the story will be "Senator Who Has Native Ancestry Once Said She Had Native Ancestry". Yawn.
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Oct 15, 2018 12:46
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Yeah I'm not sure this actually... does anything. Maybe hurts? The emotional core of the attack was always "it was ridiculous for this white-rear end white lady to claim a not-actually-lives indigenous identity on a form", and this doesn't do anything to counter that. If anything, if Warren is (actually or implicitly) defending her choice to check that box by showing "see I have at least one indigenous ancestor", as if that's a defence, and as if every single white person on the continent whose family has been here for three generations couldn't make the same claim, that could actually hurt her in the primary.
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Oct 15, 2018 12:57
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Pinterest Mom posted:If anything, if Warren is (actually or implicitly) defending her choice to check that box by showing "see I have at least one indigenous ancestor", as if that's a defence, and as if every single white person on the continent whose family has been here for three generations couldn't make the same claim, that could actually hurt her in the primary. ...except the box wasn't on a job application, it was on a form for a Harvard faculty facebook in which she indicated that she had Native American ancestry. Harvard already confirmed that they didn't have any idea about it when they hired her. I think it's debatable whether it helps, but it in no way hurts. Now, when Donny Peepants starts doing fake war dances and tomahawk chops on stage, Very Serious People can't go "well, she could just take a DNA test and shut him up!" Now she has. He won't shut up, but the Very Serious People will finally stop asking the question.
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Oct 15, 2018 13:00
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double nine posted:WHY? Why do this? because like all establishment democrats she fundamentally misunderstands american politics, and if she's the nominee will lose even worse than clinton
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Oct 15, 2018 13:15
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QuoProQuid posted:I'm curious how many ballots it takes for the Democrats to agree on a ticket, given that there are at least 15 "serious" contenders in the OP and probably half a dozen others (Tim Ryan! Kate Brown! Tammy Duckworth! Howard Schultz for some reason!) who could theoretically jump in. The sheer number of candidates seems to be bad news for Sanders, who seems to do worse in polls when more candidates are included, and better for big-party tent poles like Biden, who consistently polls in the 25-30% range regardless of how many opponents he has. Votes for anyone who doesn't beat 15% basically don't count under dem primary rules. As long as he doesn't drop below that magic number, it's better to get 19 and then a dozen people trailing around 4 points then to get 20 followed by a few getting 16.
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Oct 15, 2018 13:16
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Tony Gunk posted:...except the box wasn't on a job application, it was on a form for a Harvard faculty facebook in which she indicated that she had Native American ancestry. Harvard already confirmed that they didn't have any idea about it when they hired her. I think it's debatable whether it helps, but it in no way hurts. Who said anything about a job application? I meant that with her releasing this test, this potentially shifts the narrative from "look, family folklore, maybe it was silly" to "wait are you really saying, in the year two thousand and eighteen, that you have a legitimate claim to indigenous identity based on this", and the second one seems like it might be fraught to navigate in the primary.
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Oct 15, 2018 13:21
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The whole PR campaign is also a big excuse for law professors, especially Harvard law professors, to speak glowingly about her career. It's not just about dismissing her heritage; the videos spend a lot of time on how insanely good she was at her job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_BOyHyrC4 Anyway the whole fractions thing is dumb. There's a tweet above that says she's "1/32nd to 1/512th Native." Measuring ancestry in this sort of pseudo-scientific blood quantum is a uniquely American stupidity, and I wish journalists wouldn't parrot it.
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Oct 15, 2018 13:29
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Pinterest Mom posted:Who said anything about a job application? But she has never claimed ANYTHING other than "I have this ancestry somewhere in my family tree". It's not like she's tried to move to one of the reservations or claim any First Nation exemptions; all she did was say "My cheekbones look like I have Native American ancestry, at least that's what my parents used to tell me". It works because she has exactly the amount of Native American ancestry as she claimed--very little. No, it won't shut Trump up. However, it will stop the Chuck Todds of the world from going "WELL MAYBE SHE SHOULD JUST TAKE THE TEST!!!!!" Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 13:34
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Is she seriously claiming that being 1/32 native American makes you Native American in any meaningful matter? She just declared half the country's white people Native American via the one drop rule. This is an incredible own goal, she's dancing to Trump's tune already. RIP the Democratic Party if she is the nominee.
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Oct 15, 2018 13:36
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Tony Gunk posted:But she has never claimed ANYTHING other than "I have this ancestry somewhere in my family tree". It's not like she's tried to move to one of the reservations or claim any First Nation exemptions; all she did was say "My cheekbones look like I have Native American ancestry, at least that's what my parents used to tell me". You know this is not going the way it goes down in American politics. If she said that, but never released the results, it would seem silly but who actually knew what was going on. Instead, she confirmed it for the entire world to see (/512th is the number that is going to be focused on). It was dumb and a self-own. Moreover, it proved Donny was right...WHY would you ever do such a thing? Ardennes fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 13:42
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the problem with revealing this is they and their acolytes were already lying about it. they said she claimed it to get and further her career. you cannot fact check these people.
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Oct 15, 2018 13:53
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Ardennes posted:You know this is not going the way it goes down in American politics. If she said that, but never released the results, it would seem silly but who actually knew what was going on. Instead, she confirmed it for the entire world to see (/512th is the number that is going to be focused on). It was dumb and a self-own. ...no, it didn't prove Donny was right. Jesus Christ, she wasn't dressing in native dress and doing war dances on stage. All she said was that somewhere in her family tree, there was Native American blood. Once. On a form for a Harvard facebook. It isn't like she was even claiming that she was half or 25% Native American. She wasn't trying to claim any special exemptions or demand any special treatment. And again: THIS WAS NOT FOR DONNY AND THE CHUDS. It was for the media morons who would otherwise spend the entire primary season asking "IS ELIZABETH WARREN AN INDIAN?!"
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Oct 15, 2018 13:58
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KingFisher posted:Is she seriously claiming that being 1/32 native American makes you Native American in any meaningful matter? Obama was somewhere in the middle by releasing his birth certificate, which did a good job of shutting up the "respectable" media once he'd done it, but too late to prevent Trump from getting national attention. And no, she did not seriously claim that being 1/32 Native American made her Native American in any meaningful manner. She claimed that she had been told as a kid that she had some Native American ancestry, which she now has evidence for being the case. Which is dumb in itself for being an issue even if it was a complete fabrication when considering Trump can't go an hour without telling a lie that is far more consequential, but what are you going to do about the media's double standard?
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Oct 15, 2018 13:59
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Tony Gunk posted:...no, it didn't prove Donny was right. Jesus Christ, she wasn't dressing in native dress and doing war dances on stage. All she said was that somewhere in her family tree, there was Native American blood. Once. On a form for a Harvard facebook. It isn't like she was even claiming that she was half or 25% Native American. She wasn't trying to claim any special exemptions or demand any special treatment. According to Politifact, several times, over a decade, to a professional organisation as well as two schools. quote:The Boston Globe followed the Herald with a report that the Association of American Law Schools listed Warren as a minority law teacher each year from 1986 to 1994. In that time, Warren went from being a law professor at the University of Texas, to the University of Pennsylvania, and finally in 1995 to Harvard University.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:07
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Tony Gunk posted:...no, it didn't prove Donny was right. Jesus Christ, she wasn't dressing in native dress and doing war dances on stage. All she said was that somewhere in her family tree, there was Native American blood. Once. On a form for a Harvard facebook. It isn't like she was even claiming that she was half or 25% Native American. She wasn't trying to claim any special exemptions or demand any special treatment. That is enough. Yeah, the press would probably bug her about it, that is better than actually admitting it. Trump makes poo poo up all the time, but it is actually rare when he gets some evidence or at least enough evidence. Personally, I don't really give one way or another about the issue, but god drat her team must not understand national politics. Also, I don't think being a talented Harvard law professor is actually a benefit in this day and age. There is a reason populism has taken over discourse.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:08
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Ardennes posted:That is enough. Yeah, the press would probably bug her about it, that is better than actually admitting it. ...You don't remember 2004, do you? How'd "not admitting it" work out for John Kerry? Dumb poo poo needs to be addressed in whatever way possible, especially in the Stupid Age of politics. Elizabeth Warren was never hired anywhere as a result of minority status, nor was she ever granted special or preferential treatment for stated minority status. She now no longer has to dignify these idiot charges in a year when she actually declares her candidacy (which it appears she's now definitely going to do, because otherwise, why would she bother with this). I'm sorry, I don't mean to be pissy or anything, since I understand the spirit of this thread is to avoid that...I just don't understand why it's a bad thing to try and neutralize one of the biggest "strikes" against your candidacy a year before you even declare it. Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 14:19
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Tony Gunk posted:I just don't understand why it's a bad thing to try and neutralize one of the biggest "strikes" against your candidacy a year before you even declare it. https://twitter.com/randygdub/status/1051823190253559814
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Oct 15, 2018 14:25
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Tony Gunk posted:And again: THIS WAS NOT FOR DONNY AND THE CHUDS. It was for the media morons who would otherwise spend the entire primary season asking "IS ELIZABETH WARREN AN INDIAN?!" Yeah, this is not intended to shut up the CHUDs (or if it is, yeah, it's dumb). It is intended to shut up Jake Tapper, and it's a decent attempt for that purpose.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:25
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This wasn't for the guy who believes in Pizzagate. I believe I and other posters have already made that clear. Warren isn't stupid; I'm sure she knows that the Pizzagaters and others like them will never countenance real evidence on this front. It was meant to shut Jake Tapper and Chuck Todd up for the next two years, and it most likely will.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:27
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the jake tappers of the world aren't the gatekeepers of politics you guys think they are
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Oct 15, 2018 14:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, this is not intended to shut up the CHUDs (or if it is, yeah, it's dumb). It is intended to shut up Jake Tapper, and it's a decent attempt for that purpose. i dunno jake tapper's the guy that falsely fact checked bernie's accurate statements about the mercatus report. The Muppets On PCP posted:the jake tappers of the world aren't the gatekeepers of politics you guys think they are this too.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:30
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The Muppets On PCP posted:the jake tappers of the world aren't the gatekeepers of politics you guys think they are No, but they are going to be the guys on CNN and MSNBC pretending to be the Very Serious People Just Asking Questions for the next two years, and if they're not talking about Elizabeth Warren's ancestry, then it's a win for her. Again, the chuds are gonna chud. They will never stop chudding. The idea is to stop people who AREN'T chuds from caring about this issue.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:34
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Tony Gunk posted:...You don't remember 2004, do you? How'd "not admitting it" work out for John Kerry? Dumb poo poo needs to be addressed in whatever way possible, especially in the Stupid Age of politics. If John Kerry actually admitted he never left Saigon, it wouldn't have turned out better for him. Politics isn't a court of law, it is about perception and narratives, especially when you give the other side ammo. Btw, it isn't just CHUDs that aren't going to be impressed. Also, it isn't going to solve the issue, maybe the Beltway press will give her an easier time but there is no way it wouldn't come back during the GE. (Also, yeah she is starting her campaign with a bang.) Ardennes fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 14:35
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The Muppets On PCP posted:the jake tappers of the world aren't the gatekeepers of politics you guys think they are Jake Tapper is a horrible idiot wasteman , the exact type of wasteman who can be counted on to ask "why don't you just take a DNA test?" If she hadn't Again this is happening in a news hole, a month before the midterms two years before the election. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Oct 15, 2018 |
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Oct 15, 2018 14:35
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Ardennes posted:If John Kerry actually admitted he never left Saigon, it wouldn't have turned out better for him. What is the narrative going to be, especially a few months down the road? "Donald Trump accused Elizabeth Warren of being a fake Native American, but it turns out she actually does have Native American blood. Now back to the 2,000,000 people who are declaring their candidacy for the Presidency of the United States."
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Oct 15, 2018 14:37
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Tony Gunk posted:What is the narrative going to be, especially a few months down the road? "Donald Trump accused Elizabeth Warren of being a fake Native American, but it turns out she actually does have Native American blood. Now back to the 2,000,000 people who are declaring their candidacy for the Presidency of the United States." The actual public is not going to accept 1/32 to 1/512th as "actual Native American blood," everyone is going to assume she is making poo poo up even if some tribes will accept almost anyone.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:40
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Ardennes posted:The actual public is not going to accept 1/32 to 1/512th as "actual Native American blood," everyone is going to assume she is making poo poo up even if some tribes will accept almost anyone. I don't think people are going to care. I think taking the test and finding evidence of Native American ancestry is going to be enough for the non-chud media to stop mentioning it every time "Elizabeth Warren" and "President" are found in the same sentence. Again, if she was claiming she was 100% Native American, you'd have a point--but she never said anything of the sort.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:43
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Tony Gunk posted:No, but they are going to be the guys on CNN and MSNBC pretending to be the Very Serious People Just Asking Questions for the next two years, and if they're not talking about Elizabeth Warren's ancestry, then it's a win for her. they'll still be talking about it
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Oct 15, 2018 14:45
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The Muppets On PCP posted:they'll still be talking about it Agree to disagree, I guess. Trump's going to be loving up so often and so hard that they'll have way too many other bones to gnaw on. Also, Warren recently got a Golden Retriever puppy named Bailey, and he is loving adorable 
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Oct 15, 2018 14:46
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All the Republicans need to do is keep bringing it up every few months and she'll always be thought of as that obnoxious white lady who pretended to be native american because of 1/32nd heritage or something, it doesn't really matter what the original context is at this point, does it?
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Oct 15, 2018 14:48
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Tony Gunk posted:I don't think people are going to care. I think taking the test and finding evidence of Native American ancestry is going to be enough for the non-chud media to stop mentioning it every time "Elizabeth Warren" and "President" are found in the same sentence. Again, if she was claiming she was 100% Native American, you'd have a point--but she never said anything of the sort. The other point worth raising here is that Warren has no good options, only least-bad ones. If she doesn't respond at all, it festers and Jake Tapper asks her "why don't you just take a DNA test?" in the debates and she becomes John Kerry in a "sexy Native American" halloween costume If she does respond, it still festers among the CHUDs anyway, but at least when Jake Tapper asks about it she can say "I took a DNA test, so that's done, [pivot to a policy talking point] Ideally, this is the last time her campaign ever brings up this topic unsolicited. I think that's why they're doing this now, over two years out, during the traditional time to get out in front of potential scandals.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:48
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 good job, liz https://twitter.com/KThomasDC/status/1051829579898413056
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Oct 15, 2018 14:50
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You keep talking about this like Elizabeth Warren thought she was going to convince Trump of anything. That would imply she is a moron who thinks he's acting in good faith. She obviously knows he's not. Bonus points, though, if reporters start asking Donny when he's gonna donate that million bucks.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:53
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That's basically Trump slinking away in humiliating retreat, so yeah, good job, Liz.
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Oct 15, 2018 14:55
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Tony Gunk posted:You keep talking about this like Elizabeth Warren thought she was going to convince Trump of anything. That would imply she is a moron who thinks he's acting in good faith. She obviously knows he's not. no i'm talking about this like elizabeth warren thought she was going to convince anyone of anything. it proves she's a moron who thinks she should respond to the pocahontas attack in good faith quote:Bonus points, though, if reporters start asking Donny when he's gonna donate that million bucks. spoiler alert: they're not
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Oct 15, 2018 14:59
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