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Black belts don't have anything to prove rolling with a white belt. They shouldn't smash you and it will probably be a fun and informative roll.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:30
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I roll with a few black belts at my gym - one is an instructor and the other two just show up for classes and annihilations. The instructor is awesome to roll with because it's basically just a free private for five mins - I usually ask questions about setups I notice or defenses where I get subbed by the same thing five times in a row. The other two I just try to survive as long as possible as they are not interested in conversation and its non stop smash for the whole round. I judge the success of those rolls by how in frequently I tap and how many dick moves they pull on me throughout the roll.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:31
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I love rolling with the Brown and Black Belts. At any one point in my gym we may have up to 5 black and brown belts on the mat plus our instructor. Its always informational.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:36
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I mean I guess I could give it a shot I just have never seen the black belts roll with white belts, and usually when my instructor rolls its with a purple or higher, or someone who is preparing for a tournament/fight
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Oct 16, 2018 21:37
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I for one don't feel like I get much out of rolling with higher belts. Its a good thing to do once in a while to remind you how good they are, but I don't retain much of the details unless they're actively teaching them to me, in which case it isn't really rolling anymore. Having a fellow blue just barely sweep me I find gives me a better idea of the technique than a black, who makes me feel like I swept myself 4 moves back and just took my time falling over.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:49
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I try not to murder white/blue/purple belts but sometimes they just dive headfirst into defeat Chael style
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Oct 16, 2018 21:59
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The multi-degree black belt I roll with often works as if he's presenting problems on a timer - he'll sit somewhere for 5-6 seconds before making any move. The fresh shiny new black belt just loving annihilates me, but he does me the courtesy of stopping me and pointing it out if I'm repeatedly making some unforced error.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:20
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butros posted:I roll with a few black belts at my gym - one is an instructor and the other two just show up for classes and annihilations. Uh, hi. I’m here for the annihilation?
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Oct 17, 2018 01:09
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All the black belts I have ever rolled with have basically matched pace with me, given me time to work out of a problem and then put me into another, worse, situation until they finally submit me. Occasionally they'll put on crushing pressure and just destroy me but most of the time it's a nice roll where I'm constantly trying to solve a problem that keeps getting harder and harder until I give up.
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Oct 17, 2018 01:33
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I set my goal for this week to go every day just to see if my conditioning holds up. So far so good
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Oct 17, 2018 01:48
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Whenever I roll with black belts they're super chill. Part of that is because I also know how to roll chill. I think what some less experienced people here are experiencing as "getting smashed" is really just higher belts reacting to them not yet having developed the skill of rolling light and relaxed. I feel like brown belts tend to go way harder than purple belts, for some reason. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 03:30
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I feel like brown belts tend to go way harder than purple belts, for some reason. I feel that the most smashy rolls tend to be brand new black belts and four stripe brown belts. Everyone else tends to be chill so long as you are chill.
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Oct 17, 2018 03:41
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On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst, how dickish is it to chickenwing someone to open up an elbow (e.g. you have mount, and you put your weight into their t-rexed arm such that their wrist is being pushed into their shoulder and their elbow feels like it's going to explode)?
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Oct 17, 2018 03:52
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CommonShore posted:On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst, how dickish is it to chickenwing someone to open up an elbow (e.g. you have mount, and you put your weight into their t-rexed arm such that their wrist is being pushed into their shoulder and their elbow feels like it's going to explode)? Like a Kimura or Americana? Either way it isn't much different than those things. Also, this is page 420 and noone has mentioned Eddie Bravo so here we are.
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Oct 17, 2018 04:06
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As if for americana. Instead of trying to push the arm up or to the side you just push the arm into itself. I did it to someone tonight and he looked at me as if I had just done something really dickish  I also sometimes use my hip to do it to people who are trying to get a frame underneath my hips for side control.
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Oct 17, 2018 04:12
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So it's like a wrist lock? As someone with bad wrists, I'd say pretty dickish.
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Oct 17, 2018 04:16
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mariooncrack posted:So it's like a wrist lock? Pressure is in the elbow. gently caress I'll see if I can find a video or something. e. apparently some people just call the americana a "chicken wing," which is making this much more difficult. Closest thing I could find quickly - instead of doing the thing where he leans with his elbow, I just lock out my arms and drop my body weight into the arm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLqWGE4YgT8&t=37s CommonShore fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 04:17
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I mean if you aren't doing it 100% it seems fine Putting pressure on a joint to open up options has never been dickish to me.
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Oct 17, 2018 04:25
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CommonShore posted:Pressure is in the elbow. Nothing wrong with that. On the rolling with higher belts conversation, I always felt that the toughest rolls were from one belt ahead. Rolling with blues at white belt, purples at blue, and browns at purple. I feel like bigger gaps in rank result in a much more relaxed roll. Black belts take it easy on me and play nice. It's brown belts that kick my rear end without sympathy. From my own perspective, I basically never go 100%, but I'll use my full set of moves on blue belts and usually skip the good stuff with white belts.
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Oct 17, 2018 05:18
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CommonShore posted:On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst, how dickish is it to chickenwing someone to open up an elbow (e.g. you have mount, and you put your weight into their t-rexed arm such that their wrist is being pushed into their shoulder and their elbow feels like it's going to explode)? If I remember my high school physiology terminology correctly, you're describing a hyperflexion of the elbow. One of my arms is much more sensitive to it than the other, but despite that, I always forget about it until I'm trying to frame from bottom side control and get put in a very specific configuration, and then the pain goes from 0 to 60 almost instantaneously. So you're describing something that: 1) a lot of people might not even realize is possible 2) is highly variable and might not even work at all 3) has a very low margin of error as far as safety goes if it does work I *love* the mão de vaca/Jacare wristlock but no longer attempt it from mount for similar reasons. I saw something similar to the "crush their forearm down with your elbow" detail in that video at a seminar recently, but it was more focused on digging under and prying the arm away instead of just down, which sounds like what you ultimately want anyway.
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Oct 17, 2018 05:35
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Got to roll with my old coach from 4-5 years ago today. He complimented my improved grappling but in particular he complimented my poker face? He said I’ve developed the ability to look bored and unimpressed no matter how much danger I’m in. I’m extremely proud of this
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Oct 17, 2018 09:12
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poker face is like 80% of sub defense
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Oct 17, 2018 09:34
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True
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Oct 17, 2018 10:43
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Dave Grool posted:poker face is like 80% of sub defense This.
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Oct 17, 2018 14:55
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I set my goal for this week to go every day just to see if my conditioning holds up. I do this once a month. I go to a carlson lineage gym so we train harder than most other gyms
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Oct 17, 2018 15:03
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Also I've been dreaming about giving kimuras and americanas recently. And thinking about doing it from the bottom which seems badassCommonShore posted:Pressure is in the elbow. That seems dickish to me. If he's not giving you the arm, I would just look for a choke or try to get him to turn over. But also depends on if the roll was low intensity or not. Michael Transactions fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 15:05
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Y'all think that is rude? Am I missing something he's just applying pressure to the guys arm at a strong angle? I've learned or seen that in 3 or 4 different gyms none of which were hyper competitive. My issue with it is that it doesn't seem to work too well as just a press I prefer the press plus scoop from side to isolate the limb better. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 15:30
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I just don't get in what world that method of isolating the arm is considered a dick move. You're trying to get the guys arm to a place where you can dislocate his shoulder, which is something I'm assuming we're all cool with, so I don't get why someone would make the argument that the way that you are getting to the position where you can dislocate the shoulder is too dickish? This is kind of the point I was trying to get to when I asked what people thought about that Vagner comment about jiu jitsu getting soft (vs. is BJJ street effective) a few days ago. At the end of the day you're trying to strangle someone unconscious or break / dislocate their limbs. I don't necessarily think it's worthwhile trying to get someone to pain tap if there's not a legit choke / strangle (e.g. crossfacing, shin on throat or whatever) but to say that more brutal technique doesn't have a place, particularly in forcing a reaction which opens an opponent up for a sub, isn't something I agree with.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:44
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Xguard86 posted:Y'all think that is rude? Am I missing something he's just applying pressure to the guys arm at a strong angle? I've learned or seen that in 3 or 4 different gyms none of which were hyper competitive. It's the hyperflexion into the elbow. It'll open up really strong people quite easily when they're keeping the arms close. I ask because sometimes when I do it to people - even otherwise tough grapplers - they scowl at me as if I'm grinding my shin on their balls or putting my chin in their eye. I've done it for a while but I ask now because of how someone reacted to it last night. poo poo you can see how it feels right now - go face the wall, t-rex your arm in and pin your elbow against your ribs, and lean your wrist into the wall such that the back of the hand is coming towards your shoulder. You'll feel it in your elbow and tendons.
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Oct 17, 2018 15:51
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Dave Grool posted:poker face is like 80% of sub defense 
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Oct 17, 2018 15:54
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Is that Robson? I had a pretty scary almost injury last night. I was in turtle and the guy was trying to armbar me. He has the arm isolated and tried to roll over my back to finish it. However, he put the center of momentum against my bicep instead of against my shoulders/back. So, instead of being forced to roll over, my body was still firmly turtled and he just managed to yank my arm backwards with his entire body weight. Good thing I am flexible I guess. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 15:55
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Is that Robson? Yup!
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Oct 17, 2018 15:58
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butros posted:I just don't get in what world that method of isolating the arm is considered a dick move. You're trying to get the guys arm to a place where you can dislocate his shoulder, which is something I'm assuming we're all cool with, so I don't get why someone would make the argument that the way that you are getting to the position where you can dislocate the shoulder is too dickish? Idk it seems like a jerk thing to do. Like I said, there are other ways to get an arm that don't inflict pain. Yeah you're trying to kill each other but not really, a good partner stops when the other taps and usually slowly applies the submission to prevent injury. I'm not sure if we need jerks in BJJ for it to make it less soft. I think it's more with certain gym cultures handing out belts like candy, based on a time criteria rather than actual skill (I'm looking at you Gracie Barra).
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Oct 17, 2018 16:35
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CommonShore posted:It's the hyperflexion into the elbow. It'll open up really strong people quite easily when they're keeping the arms close. I ask because sometimes when I do it to people - even otherwise tough grapplers - they scowl at me as if I'm grinding my shin on their balls or putting my chin in their eye. I've done it for a while but I ask now because of how someone reacted to it last night. I don't think its dickish at all. BJJ is a combat sport not a, err, nice person... hug dance. e: its not dickish because you're not hurting someone, you're basically telling someone that you're going to hurt them if they don't react. If you slam all your weight on the arm with the intention to hurt them, then yeah that's dickish. Its like a sub-- apply pressure, giving enough room for your opponent to react before breaking something. Count Roland fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 16:39
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spb posted:Idk it seems like a jerk thing to do. Like I said, there are other ways to get an arm that don't inflict pain. Yeah you're trying to kill each other but not really, a good partner stops when the other taps and usually slowly applies the submission to prevent injury. I'm not sure if we need jerks in BJJ for it to make it less soft. I think it's more with certain gym cultures handing out belts like candy, based on a time criteria rather than actual skill (I'm looking at you Gracie Barra). Pain compliance is a thing. I think that as far as i'm concerned, it should be part of what we do or you start seeing guys doing weird poo poo like pencil guard and getting away with it in the gym because people are kind of accepting it and don't want to look like a dick.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:41
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spb posted:I do this once a month. I go to a carlson lineage gym so we train harder than most other gyms spb posted:I'm not sure if we need jerks in BJJ for it to make it less soft. I think it's more with certain gym cultures handing out belts like candy, based on a time criteria rather than actual skill (I'm looking at you Gracie Barra). No offense man, but from one white belt to another, you seem to be talking a lot of poo poo on other programs when you probably don't really have the perspective for it yet. As for using pain in BJJ, I cannot see how you can avoid it. Teaching someone to apply a good tight side control without making it loving suck for the guy underneath is just teaching a weak side control. Its amazing to learn what a little digging with your shoulder can do to limit your opponent. like Roland said Count Roland posted:e: its not dickish because you're not hurting someone, you're basically telling someone that you're going to hurt them if they don't react. If you slam all your weight on the arm with the intention to hurt them, then yeah that's dickish. Its like a sub-- apply pressure, giving enough room for your opponent to react before breaking something. Use pain to control, not to injure. If you can make someone uncomfortable enough that they open themselves up, that is absolutely not a dick move. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 16:43
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Its amazing to learn what a little digging with your shoulder can do to limit your opponent. Or head. We use our shoulders a lot from side control to control your opponents head, but dont rule out your head doing the same from positions like mount. I have a nice little lapel choke that I setup by using my head to block what my opponent sees when Im setting up for my choke from mount. Being sneaky is the key 
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Oct 17, 2018 17:15
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Odddzy posted:Pain compliance is a thing. I think that as far as i'm concerned, it should be part of what we do or you start seeing guys doing weird poo poo like pencil guard and getting away with it in the gym because people are kind of accepting it and don't want to look like a dick. what the hell is pencil guard
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Oct 17, 2018 17:19
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:Or head. We use our shoulders a lot from side control to control your opponents head, but dont rule out your head doing the same from positions like mount. I have a nice little lapel choke that I setup by using my head to block what my opponent sees when Im setting up for my choke from mount. Being sneaky is the key no joke the other day a blue belt put me in such a tight side control I had to tap. It was practically like an ezekiel choke or something.
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Oct 17, 2018 17:28
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Mechafunkzilla posted:what the hell is pencil guard I imagine it's similar to coffin guard.
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Oct 17, 2018 18:09
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