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Fangz posted:The Battlefield 5 campaign lets you play from the German perspective but "it's not a hero story", insists DICE quote:UPDATE: This article has been edited at the request of DICE after the developer said Peter Mueller, the German soldier you play as in Battlefield 5, is not a Nazi. Rather, the War Story in question depicts "the German perspective".
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Oct 18, 2018 17:00
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Yeah, that's why I used the url tag, not just the link, since the url still uses the old title. I assume what they mean is that the player isn't (a) waffen SS, and (b) isn't officially a member of the party. We'll see whether they are 'clean wehrmacht' though. I'm glad you aren't playing Wittmann anyway.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:03
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I have a bad feeling about this
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Oct 18, 2018 17:04
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i am more ok with this in the context of reenactment than in the context of video games because in reenactment you can think or talk about whatever you want and you lose half the time, while a video game propels you along a preset path that doles out the feeling of accomplishment, leading you to associate success with nazis
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Oct 18, 2018 17:06
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I'm sort of on the 'let's wait and see' side of this, I'm not super optimistic but OTOH they aren't doing the obvious bad things like having you play as SS, or setting you up vs the asiatic hordes etc.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:11
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Fangz posted:I'm sort of on the 'let's wait and see' side of this, I'm not super optimistic but OTOH they aren't doing the obvious bad things like having you play as SS, or setting you up vs the asiatic hordes etc. Hopefully the German campaign ends with a cutscene of you being shot in the head in the ruins of Berlin, dying completely pointlessly and alone. Then a Soviet soldier teabags you.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:14
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feedmegin posted:Hopefully the German campaign ends with a cutscene of you being shot in the head in the ruins of Berlin, dying completely pointlessly and alone. If you kill more than 3 people in the entire campaign, when you try to surrender at the end of the final level you are summarily executed instead.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:18
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They specifically wanted to do a cool tank-focused scenario and didn't go with Maria Oktyabrskaya? Shame.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:26
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If you kill more than ten you are instead invited to write an autobiography during your comfy retirement?
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Oct 18, 2018 17:28
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They are probably leaving the Russians and the Japanese for DLC.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:28
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Comrade Koba posted:They specifically wanted to do a cool tank-focused scenario and didn't go with Maria Oktyabrskaya? Shame. Yeah, that would have been a epic war-story. Couldn't do one about the lone KV-1 which blocked an division for a whole day?
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Oct 18, 2018 17:30
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Still holding out hope you're the zookeeper at the Berlin Zoo, with DLC of you, at Lutz Heck's orders, desperately trying to breed a tarpan. I still think it's interesting that this is getting a bunch of controversy, while there wasn't really much controversy about, like, Panzer General, or War in the West/War in the East, Hearts of Iron, or Decisive Campaigns, all of which let you (and in the case of Panzer General, made you), play as the Germans in WWII. Is there a difference between strategy games and first person shooters in this regard? I mean, you'd almost think it would be the other way around, because not every German soldier committed atrocities or war crimes, whereas, if you're commanding the entire German army attacking Poland, you're responsible for all of it.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:32
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Epicurius posted:Still holding out hope you're the zookeeper at the Berlin Zoo, with DLC of you, at Lutz Heck's orders, desperately trying to breed a tarpan. We've had that discussion earlier in the thread, I think. I think these things are quite different kettles of fish in terms of mainstream accessibility and also the visceral nature of your engagement.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:37
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Fangz posted:The Battlefield 5 campaign lets you play from the German perspective but "it's not a hero story", insists DICE I think it’s good and should be fun. I’m sure some shitheads think that playing from a Soviet perspective is the same thing. I mean a war game is problematic in its self, but if you are going to have war games I don’t know why having a German tank crew or airman is a problem. That there wasn’t one in battlefield 1 is weird.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:38
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Coldwar timewarp posted:I think it’s good and should be fun. I’m sure some shitheads think that playing from a Soviet perspective is the same thing. Because there were no Nazi's in WW1.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:47
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Comrade Koba posted:They specifically wanted to do a cool tank-focused scenario and didn't go with Maria Oktyabrskaya? Shame. How can you paint the Red Army as a faceless horde when you have a memorable character with a name and a face?
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Oct 18, 2018 17:47
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Coldwar timewarp posted:I mean a war game is problematic in its self, but if you are going to have war games I don’t know why having a German tank crew or airman is a problem. That there wasn’t one in battlefield 1 is weird.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:51
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Halloween Jack posted:I get your point, but the designers must be at least vaguely aware that there's an online far-right community that will abuse it for propaganda. Who makes their life choices based on what nazis think?
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Oct 18, 2018 17:54
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EvilMerlin posted:Because there were no Nazi's in WW1. Perhaps if you read and weren’t a snarky moron, you would have noticed I said “Germans” and “Battlefield 1”. That was in reference to it being weird that there weren’t Germans in BF1 war stories. Which by any metric should be a playable group, considering a belligerent power bent on territorial conquest is playable, in the form of Italy.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:54
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Comrade Koba posted:They specifically wanted to do a cool tank-focused scenario and didn't go with Maria Oktyabrskaya? Shame. A woman AND a Communist? In muh videya games?!? Edit: I'd buy two copies. No, three. Cessna fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 17:55
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Nenonen posted:Who makes their life choices based on what nazis think? Yeah, but you also don't want to give them "
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Oct 18, 2018 17:59
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Halloween Jack posted:I get your point, but the designers must be at least vaguely aware that there's an online far-right community that will abuse it for propaganda. I think that context matters and while “Clean Wehrmacht” is bullshit, it’s easier to tell a story safely from their perspective as a tank crew. Tons of games let you play as Nazi tanks and planes and ships, this one appears to be told in a way which doesn’t glorify them or the Nazi war effort, which is arguably an improvement. Battlefield games set in WW2 have pretty much always had the Germans or the Japanese as playable teams in every multiplayer match. I get your point but I don’t think we need to stop mentioning or referencing or teaching about Nazi Germany. I don’t think a video game or a campaign will really move many minds either way. I can think of the book, “Fatherland”, which is about a Nazi policeman in Berlin if they won the war. Doesn’t sound good. But the context makes a pretty interesting story, not one that glorifies Nazi’s.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:03
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poo poo, I bought Battlefield 5 before they announced this I guess I'm a nazi now.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:05
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I find the pearl clutching about Wehrmacht video game characters to be very confusing and logically inconsistent. I also think people should not really care what modern day nazis do or think.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:06
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Remember that time when Das Boot and Cross of Iron came out in theaters and we were all nazis for liking the films?
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Oct 18, 2018 18:08
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Cessna posted:Yeah, but you also don't want to give them " Better remove the Germans from future versions of Civilization on account of what a bunch of idiots will pretend as they're playing. Is playing as the Romans okay?
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Oct 18, 2018 18:12
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Remember that time when Das Boot and Cross of Iron came out in theaters and we were all nazis for liking the films? There's Das Boot, but there's also My Honor Was Loyalty.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:14
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I remember a time when I used to play Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe. Who would have thought that flying an Me-262 in a video game meant that I was now a nazi... 
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Oct 18, 2018 18:15
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I remember a time when I used to play Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe. Who would have thought that flying an Me-262 in a video game meant that I was now a nazi...
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Oct 18, 2018 18:17
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The strawmen here aren't helping.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:17
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I remember a time when I used to play Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe. Who would have thought that flying an Me-262 in a video game meant that I was now a nazi... I cannot begin to tell you the number of hours I dumped into this game. And Chuck Yeager's Air Combat and AFT. Then came the age of Jane's...
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Oct 18, 2018 18:19
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It just feels weird to say that there's a topic that is ineligible to tell stories about. It'd suck to live in Nazi Germany. Get kicked around by fascism, get drafted to die in a poorly-planned war of aggression or have to live through bombings, and all that state propaganda and social pressure working on you to make you into a racist shithead. Even if you don't go all the way in becoming a shithead, you'll still probably end up guilty by way of inaction.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:43
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bewbies posted:I find the pearl clutching about Wehrmacht video game characters to be very confusing and logically inconsistent. I gotta tell you, I'm just sick and tired of Nazi poo poo these days.
I don't do those last two things - WWII wargaming, reenacting - anymore because things looked different when I did them than they do now. Back then Nazis looked like they were firmly in the past. It was worth studying that era, especially the Holocaust, as a cautionary example. But there was a sense of distance then. This probably looks really foolish now - clearly I was coming at it from privilege or ignorance, but - Nazis weren't an immediate threat. Horrible evil, to be sure, but they weren't marching in the streets. Now it's 2018, and the rise of the authoritarian right across the globe and in my country disgusts me and scares the hell out of me. I don't want to see it again, ever. I don't want to see play-as-a-Nazi poo poo in video games; that's something I do for relaxation, to avoid the problems of the real world for a while. I don't want Nazi drama (Man in the High Castle) on TV; I get enough drat Naziism on the news. I want that poo poo gone, gone for good. I get that I'm simplifying. I've never watched High Castle, but I understand that it's not as simple as "Nazis on TV." I get that wargaming and pushing around a tiny grey toy tank isn't supporting Naziism. I even know, from experience, that putting on those boots doesn't make me goose-step. But all the same? The hell with that, I want no part of it. It's not something I have any desire to see any more of, as there's way, way too much of it in the rest of our world now. It's not pearl-clutching. It's a combination of anger and frustration and fatigue. gently caress Nazis and gently caress everything they've ever stood for. When they're consigned to the history books for good, in there as a cautionary example of evil bullshit that we must NEVER allow again I will be much happier. But until that day, Nazis as entertainment? Not for me, no way.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:43
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On the plus side, there is a decent war story showing the struggle of French Colonial Troops fighting said Nazis and also trying to figure out their own identity. Sadly though quality wise the campaign game play wise will be very middling and hopefully after this they'll stop trying to make campaigns for their games.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:48
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Nazis have been marching in the streets for decades. There aren't any more or less now. It just gets hyped up because it gets clicks/Facebook likes/tweets.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:51
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The real problem is means that we are going to get the pleasure of seeing this particular argument iterated and reiterated for months by people who have no idea what they are talking about and just want to be very loud about it. That is going to drive me absolutely loving nuts.
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Oct 18, 2018 19:07
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SlothfulCobra posted:It just feels weird to say that there's a topic that is ineligible to tell stories about. It's more "do you trust the triple-A games industry to make a game about WWII Germans that doesn't either glorify war crimes or perpetrate the Clean Wehrmacht myth" I for one am not terribly confident. OctaviusBeaver posted:Nazis have been marching in the streets for decades. There aren't any more or less now. It just gets hyped up because it gets clicks/Facebook likes/tweets. This is not true in the slightest, the far-right always gains supporters in times of economic distress.
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Oct 18, 2018 19:08
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Nazis have been marching in the streets for decades. There aren't any more or less now. It just gets hyped up because it gets clicks/Facebook likes/tweets. Your evidence for this assertion is...?
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Oct 18, 2018 19:09
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SlothfulCobra posted:It just feels weird to say that there's a topic that is ineligible to tell stories about.
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Oct 18, 2018 19:11
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MikeCrotch posted:This is not true in the slightest, the far-right always gains supporters in times of economic distress. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/opinion/trump-coalition-2016-midterms.html https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/16/17980820/trump-obama-2016-race-racism-class-economy-2018-midterm
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Oct 18, 2018 19:16
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