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The Question IRL posted:Consider this also when asking about why Reed Richards doesn't cure everything... That's a pretty weird argument because, like, innumerable bad people have benefited from penicillin and vaccination and, I don't know, doctors washing their hands. As I walk around every day enjoying not having smallpox no part of me is like, "ah, but if only Hitler had died of smallpox, it would all be worth it." If the only downside to a cure for cancer is that Donald Trump would be less likely to die of cancer, I'm not going to take the side of cancer just out of spite. I don't think a single sick person on earth would be satisfied with hearing, sorry, you could have lived, but I also want my enemies to get sick and if I just picked a side that would be unfair.
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Oct 19, 2018 06:01
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| # ? May 25, 2024 10:06 |
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site posted:Reed lets doom run latveria because decorum, he doesn't give a poo poo He made it worse because the Inhuman terrigen cloud wasn't hurting anyone before Secret Wars, but afterwards it was poisoning mutants. Reed Richards: secret racist?
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Oct 19, 2018 06:10
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TwoPair posted:He made it worse because the Inhuman terrigen cloud wasn't hurting anyone before Secret Wars, but afterwards it was poisoning mutants. Reed Richards: secret racist? The red skinned Native American stand in isn't really what it looks like, just Reed's perception of what it looks like
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Oct 19, 2018 06:14
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TwoPair posted:He made it worse because the Inhuman terrigen cloud wasn't hurting anyone before Secret Wars, but afterwards it was poisoning mutants. Reed Richards: secret racist? Reed reacted to his son being a mutant by lobotomizing him. I don't think it's secret.
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Oct 19, 2018 13:55
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Reed Richards has a time machine and never even stopped the Holocaust, he's also a Nazi. And he said something sexist in this Superdickery panel from 1964!
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Oct 19, 2018 14:05
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Edge & Christian posted:Reed Richards has a time machine and never even stopped the Holocaust, he's also a Nazi. And he said something sexist in this Superdickery panel from 1964! I know you're being hyperbolic, but does Reed have a time machine? I know Doom does, but I haven't read many Fantastic Four stories involving time travel unless they arrived in the past/future by accident. Side note: I get why writers don't use time travel a lot because it introduces the whole "why doesn't the hero fix [historical tragedy]?" problem and the answer is "the hero doesn't stop the Nazis because time paradox", but every time I've ever seen it in a comic, the characters are quick to point out that Doom's time platform is paradox-proof. Is that just a holdover from something Lee and Kirby wrote, and even if so why hasn't someone changed that just to nip all these time travel complaints in the bud?
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Oct 19, 2018 15:40
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TwoPair posted:I know you're being hyperbolic, but does Reed have a time machine? I know Doom does, but I haven't read many Fantastic Four stories involving time travel unless they arrived in the past/future by accident. They had access to Doom's. I think they took it from him, but didn't use it much save I like to think for Ben going off to play Blackbeard which is good and right.
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Oct 19, 2018 15:43
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TwoPair posted:I know you're being hyperbolic, but does Reed have a time machine? I know Doom does, but I haven't read many Fantastic Four stories involving time travel unless they arrived in the past/future by accident. Reed and his allies have also been in possession at various times of the Cosmic Cube, the Time Gem, King Solomon's Frogs, and other devices that can travel through time. Iron Man built a suit of armor with time travel capabilities in the mid-2000s, and during Mark Waid's Hulk run Banner/SHIELD built the Hulk a suit of armor that could travel in time. Between Cable and the Beast, the X-Men can travel through time more or less at will, and Thor has been able to travel through time using Mjolnir. None of these people have used it to stop fascism, and are presumably sympathetic to its cause.
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Oct 19, 2018 16:08
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Archyduke posted:That's a pretty weird argument because, like, innumerable bad people have benefited from penicillin and vaccination and, I don't know, doctors washing their hands. As I walk around every day enjoying not having smallpox no part of me is like, "ah, but if only Hitler had died of smallpox, it would all be worth it." If the only downside to a cure for cancer is that Donald Trump would be less likely to die of cancer, I'm not going to take the side of cancer just out of spite. I don't think a single sick person on earth would be satisfied with hearing, sorry, you could have lived, but I also want my enemies to get sick and if I just picked a side that would be unfair. Okay, it's a fair point. But consider it this way. You are Reed Richards. You have just invented an Anti-cancer gun. That's amazing. But how do you use it? Do you go to the nearest hospital and use it on the patients there? Do you prioritize children with cancer over elderly patients? Where do people in middle ages fit? How many people a day can you use your Anti-cancer gun on per day? Does it need to be recharged? How do you maximise the number of uses of it you get every day. How long will it take for you to cure everyone in the hospital you have chosen before you can move to the next one? While you are trying to cure everybody in hospital 1 (which might take a few days, if not a few weeks.) Word has probably gotten out that Reed Richards is in the cancer curing business. So the really rich (or the really desperate) will likely travel to this New York hospital hoping to get to the top of the line to be cured of cancer. And you better believe that those with money will be offering top dollar to be put ahead on the list. So say that you decide one anti-cancer gun isn't enough. You build more. But they ain't cheap. This cures require a super high IQ to be able to use. Or maybe the material required to make them is expensive. But at least you can make multiple ones so you don't have to personally dedicate your life to curing cancer. Except now the people buying these guns aren't just hospitals. Of the five bought by one country, most have gone to their Royal family. Again, the powerful and elite are getting them and their is a choice being made about who gets to live and who gets to die. Now if after all this the said Anti-cancer gun was made of common material, was easy to use and wound up being mass produced and fielded all over the world (like Peniciline and other wonder medicine) are, then yes most of the moral and ethical dilemmas are gone. But that is a big if. Point is, having the power over life and death leads to a lot of crappy decisions.
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Oct 19, 2018 16:18
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"We do these things not because they are hard, but because they are easy." Reed Richards(1961) after beating the Russians into space, and dedicating his genius thereafter to violence.
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Oct 19, 2018 16:22
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Never forget: "I ain't Ben any more! I'm what Susan called me -- the THING!" "And I'll call myself Mr Fantastic!"
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Oct 19, 2018 16:28
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Wheat Loaf posted:Never forget: Having recently read the fist couple issues, my favorite panel in FF1 is of Sue, after becoming invisible, in order to ditch her friend and meet with the team, managing to knock over 6 people on the way to a cab, who she then proceeds to freak out by offering him cash while still invisible. Six people in one freaking panel. Its only slightly better than the rampage Thing goes on for no good reason whatsoever*. *Torch went on a rampage too now that I think about it, destroying a car he was working on and blowing a couple Air Force jets out of the sky. They were more a menace in their first appearance than Spider-Man or the X-Men ever were. I would also state that these scenes of menace were set an indeterminate amount of time after they got their powers, so they have been living with them for a bit by that point. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Oct 19, 2018 |
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Oct 19, 2018 16:33
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remusclaw posted:Having recently read the fist couple issues, my favorite panel in FF1 is of Sue, after becoming invisible, in order to ditch her friend and meet with the team, managing to knock over 6 people on the way to a cab, who she then proceeds to freak out by offering him cash while still invisible. Six people in one freaking panel. Its only slightly better than the rampage Thing goes on for no good reason whatsoever. It would probably be at least a little disorienting to not see any part of your own body but yeah, she's being a straight-up threat and/or menace there.
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Oct 19, 2018 16:46
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Edge & Christian posted:As early as Fantastic Four #19 Reed is shown possessing one of Doom's time machines. He uses it to travel back to ancient Egypt to try to find a cure for Alicia Masters's blindness, but instead fights Rama Tut, who is probably Reed's dad who built a time machine back when Reed was a kid and disappeared. At several points later in the comic timeline but maybe before he becomes Rama Tut (I forget), Nathaniel Richards shows up with his time machine and joins the Fantastic Four on adventures. For most of the Lee/Kirby run of FF Doom's time platform is just hanging out in the Baxter Building. In the late 1990s and again in the early 2000s, Reed and co. take over Latveria (and in one case Reed roleplays as Doom) to try to fix the country and in both cases he's got all of Doom's technology, including one presumes the time machine, at his disposal. More recently in Hickman's run, Reed builds a machine that can traverse dimensions while hanging out with his dad who has a time machine and his son who can alter reality. At no point do they attempt to stem the tide of the alt-right, so it is safe to assume they approve of it. Huh. I knew the FF jumped dimensions all the time but I didn't know there was so much time travelling in there as well.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:29
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TwoPair posted:Huh. I knew the FF jumped dimensions all the time but I didn't know there was so much time travelling in there as well. Ben Grimm is canonically the pirate Black Beard.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:36
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Kang/Nathaniel Richards/Rama Tut/There's-like-13-more-of-these is from the 30th century in an alternate timeline Earth where 616 Reed's dad popped over and ended their centuries of war and became a legendary hero sometime before Kang's birth. Kang may or may not actually be a descendant of his.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:51
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Is the Great Pumpkin canon in any comic universe? Or the headless horseman? I know Santa is in both the Marvel and DC universes but what about any other holiday figures?
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Oct 19, 2018 19:07
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Dr. Nemesis could cure every disease in the world but nobody wants him to because he'd never let them live it down
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Oct 19, 2018 20:00
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duck trucker posted:Is the Great Pumpkin canon in any comic universe? Or the headless horseman? Martin Luther King Jr. is a canonical figure in both the Marvel and DC Universe too, though he might have been a Skrull in the Marvel Universe? Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 19, 2018 |
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Oct 19, 2018 20:18
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duck trucker posted:Is the Great Pumpkin canon in any comic universe? Or the headless horseman? I remember a DC Halloween special where an adult Linus summoned a Great Pumpkin and Blue Devil had to fight it.
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Oct 19, 2018 21:25
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The Question IRL posted:I remember a DC Halloween special where an adult Linus summoned a Great Pumpkin and Blue Devil had to fight it. Oh man, I had totally forgotten that. Apparently it was just reprinted in one of those Wal-Mart 100-Page Giant comics.
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Oct 19, 2018 21:55
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Edge & Christian posted:Thor has been able to travel through time using Mjolnir. None of these people have used it to stop fascism, and are presumably sympathetic to its cause. 
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Oct 19, 2018 23:20
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duck trucker posted:Is the Great Pumpkin canon in any comic universe? Or the headless horseman? This is going really obscure, but in DC's Oz-Wonderland War miniseries, there was a bit where bunny characters from all over fiction were summoned together, including Captain Carrot, Hoppy the Marvel Bunny, the March Hare, the White Rabbit, and yes, the Easter Bunny.
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Oct 19, 2018 23:30
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Plus the Easter Bunny hired Lobo to kill Santa Claus.
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Oct 19, 2018 23:36
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While comics can certainly be seen as pushing certain sorts of political philosophy just by virtue of the sorts of stories they tell, I think it is something of a painful stretch a lot of the time when characters are put forward as politically motivated in a manner that mirrors the way people in our own world are. For one, most all of them are violent vigiliantes and those who aren't are violent police or government agent types. Comics either exist in a world where violence is just less traumatic and life changing than it is in our world or conversely the characters aren't very heroic at all. At best, what, they are socially liberal, violently conservative?
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Oct 19, 2018 23:37
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Ghostlight posted:...presumably? But then Doom "finds out" that Hitler is a genocidal racist so he conspires to send a radio signal to Thor where Hitler calls him a pawn and talks about purging undesirable races, which angers Thor, but he's already killed Stalin. Except it wasn't Stalin, it was Union Jack dressed up as Stalin! Who is still dead, but Thor sucks the lightning out of Union Jack and brings him back to life. Then he's going to go kick Hitler's rear end, but Doctor Doom has already rigged the Asgard-Portal to explode so Hitler can't bring over the Warriors Three to turn them into Nazis too, which sends Thor back to Asgard and Cap and Namor to go "I think we'll be seeing him again, some day  " Whoever complained about writers twisting themselves into knots about Doctor Doom's inherent nobility really hit the nail on the head.  "You're history's greatest monster! I hate you! But I'm going to let you live to see how the world deals with you, because I plan on becoming history's greatest monster too."
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Oct 20, 2018 00:59
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That purple suit plus mummy face wrap looks legitimately really cool. I have no idea what context any writer would have for making Doom walk around in that today but I'd like it, just sayin.
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Oct 20, 2018 01:29
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TwoPair posted:That purple suit plus mummy face wrap looks legitimately really cool. I have no idea what context any writer would have for making Doom walk around in that today but I'd like it, just sayin. Back in the 70's, there was a character called the Doomsman (later named Andro), who was basically Doom's version of Ultron. His first appearance had him looking like a blue-skinned mummy, so they should totally bring him back (it's been over 40 years since his last appearance!) and have him cop that look.
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Oct 20, 2018 05:01
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Is Cap. America punching Hitler in the face still canon?
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Oct 20, 2018 05:50
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Madkal posted:Is Cap. America punching Hitler in the face still canon? No, now they had a rigorous debate
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Oct 20, 2018 06:59
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duck trucker posted:Is the Great Pumpkin canon in any comic universe? Or the headless horseman? The Headless Horseman has appeared in a couple of Marvel magazines and, from what I can gather researching, it was indeed the legendary figure and not like, Jack-O-Lantern IV trying a new identity or something. But it's unclear if the stories are fully canon to 616. 
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Oct 20, 2018 07:09
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I don’t think many of those random horror books are 616 canon. I hope not because I don’t want to read every one of them.
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Oct 20, 2018 14:38
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That's a weird one for "canon" because Supernatural Thrillers was a book they launched to capitalize on the CCA relaxing their "monster/horror" rules, so it was just a different adaptation/'inspired by' scary story for the first six issues or so, including that one. They did The Invisible Man and Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, but the stories were (more or less) faithful to the original novels and had no relation to any Invisible People in the Marvel Universe or the villain Mr. Hyde, who explicitly got his name from the book. I don't think these are considered part of the Marvel Universe at all. One of the rotating "monster" stories in the first six issues was N'KANTU, THE LIVING MUMMY who after that Headless Horseman issue took over as the star of Supernatural Thrillers until it got canceled. He was a mummy brought back to life in the 1970s so he could fight blaxpoitation villains and gangsters and stuff. None of these stories explicitly took place in the Marvel Universe -- there are no references or appearances to any superheroes or other characters -- but Living Mummy got dragged into continuity by Contest of Champions in the early 1980s, and was used sporadically by Mark Gruenwald, who loved that sort of poo poo (dragging things into continuity). In the 2000s he was part of the monstered up Howling Commandos series and was a minor supporting character in Gerry Duggan's Deadpool run, amongst other appearances. So on a purely technical level, parts of Supernatural Thrillers are explicitly canon, and others are (more or less explicity) not. The Headless Horseman story is a weird gray area, in that it's in a world where Washington Irving wrote and published a fictional story about HH, which the lead character was aware of, but he did not believe in ghosts or the supernatural. There are no explicit Marvel Universe references, and the story is actually hella Scooby Doo where a detective is initially convinced there's a Ghost Horseman, then realizes it's just evil businessman "Bones" Bullinger trying to scare off competition. He finds the costume in Bones's office, then is attacked by someone wearing the costume, escapes, and finds out BONES WAS ALREADY DEAD WHEN HE WAS ATTACKED. It was all a dream... or was it? Regardless, this hasn't been followed up on in 43 years and it's not clear if the Headless Horseman was real inside a story that probably is not part of the Marvel Universe canon, so you can probably skip reading this in your chronology and also the Headless Horseman probably isn't real in the Marvel Universe.
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Oct 20, 2018 15:14
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I'm looking forward to Jason Aaron making the Headless Horseman the Ghost Rider of the 1700s.
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Oct 20, 2018 15:47
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Edge & Christian posted:That's a weird one for "canon" because Supernatural Thrillers was a book they launched to capitalize on the CCA relaxing their "monster/horror" rules, so it was just a different adaptation/'inspired by' scary story for the first six issues or so, including that one. They did The Invisible Man and Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, but the stories were (more or less) faithful to the original novels and had no relation to any Invisible People in the Marvel Universe or the villain Mr. Hyde, who explicitly got his name from the book. I don't think these are considered part of the Marvel Universe at all. Yeah, my take is that the anthology work is only canon if it references other canon properties or is referenced by other canon properties. And mostly I just let the guys on CMRO decide. The extended universe stuff goes pretty far out, so if they don't think a story should be included, I'm willing to let it go. The Living Mummy is definitely in, as you say. And not very good. Though the first scene with the Israeli lovers is kinda cool for a 70s book.
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Oct 20, 2018 17:07
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In what comic does G'Nort fight Dex-starr? I am assuming that they have fought since the universe just wouldn't make sense if they didn't.
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Oct 21, 2018 00:05
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You know how Mr Sinister, like Apocalypse, is one of those guys whose superpower is "all the powers"? Most of his abilities come from genetically engineering himself, but given that his intended origin never came to pass, what's his baseline mutant power supposed to be? For comparison, I think Apocalypse is meant to have "absolute control of all the molecules in his body" as his mutant power which lets him change size and shapeshift and become super strong, then on top of that he has various abilities he got from the technology in a Celestial spaceship.
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Oct 21, 2018 12:12
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Wheat Loaf posted:You know how Mr Sinister, like Apocalypse, is one of those guys whose superpower is "all the powers"? Most of his abilities come from genetically engineering himself, but given that his intended origin never came to pass, what's his baseline mutant power supposed to be? As far as I know, Sinister still isn't a mutant. He's a Victorian geneticist who lost his son to birth defects and went full mad scientist, waking up Apocalypse and all that.
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Oct 21, 2018 12:26
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Sinister not being a mutant but having most mutant powers is a fun aspect of him that I hope they never change.
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Oct 21, 2018 12:42
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I used to read a bit of Spider-Man back a bit over a decade ago but stopped a little before One More Day, and I had very little inclination to return to it because of hearing about that arc. After recently learning of something that sounded interesting from the Superior Spider-Man part of Dan Slott's run, I decided to read Goblin Nation to get a feel for it (and because whatever I heard of - which I can't remember now - apparently came from this run). I've heard Dan Slott's Spider-Man is good (or at least the first 7 or 8 years are), but I'm finding that this... Sucks. It feels like something from 40 years ago - cheesy dialogue, a breakneck pace of events which are explored only briefly if at all, characters who seem to think very superficially... Did I pick up something that's from the down-swing of Slott's run, or that isn't representative of his work, or is it just my tastes are abnormal?
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Oct 21, 2018 15:04
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