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Shibawanko posted:Halo was better than HL2. At least halo was a real shooter and taking out elites was enjoyable. The story was crass and dumb, and the environments visually boring, but at least I had fun with it. The sequels I hardly remember playing. 
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Oct 19, 2018 09:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:HL2 seems like it was the last gasp of the old way of PC FPSes where tons of gameplay sections and settings are basically there to show off what the engine can do, and imitators missed the point of why that even existed and filled their games with linear setpieces and glorified mandatory minigames. I'd say that old style PC fps lives on to some degree in stuff like Titanfall 2 which plays more like Quake/UT than it does Halo.
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Oct 19, 2018 09:13
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I'd say that old style PC fps lives on to some degree in stuff like Titanfall 2 which plays more like Quake/UT than it does Halo. Might well be that one way to avoid being accused of ripping off the popular thing is to instead rip off an older popular thing.
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Oct 19, 2018 10:00
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Might well be that one way to avoid being accused of ripping off the popular thing is to instead rip off an older popular thing. i would like to see more FPS in the early "flat maze" style of Wolvenstein 3D, BlakeStone, Corridor 7, etc. I feel this is a genre that is sorely underrepresented in our modern retro remake world
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Oct 19, 2018 10:03
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Rutibex posted:i would like to see more FPS in the early "flat maze" style of Wolvenstein 3D, BlakeStone, Corridor 7, etc. I feel this is a genre that is sorely underrepresented in our modern retro remake world It somehow does not feel like we get many Doom clones.
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Oct 19, 2018 11:03
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Hes right though. It gets a ton of crap these days, but when halo dropped it was hugely innovative, had a wide variety of weapons and powerups, and fun driving even if it had a bit of a learning curve to it. Its campaign map design was pretty poo poo though. Heres another unpopular opinion. Regenerating health is cool and good. Good riddance to trying to having to survive a fight unscathed because the last one beat you to death's door and there weren't any medkits yet.
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Oct 19, 2018 12:35
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Good soup! posted:
Are the 2nd and 3rd ones worth playing? I just beat Doom 2016 on Nightmare and I'm jonesing for something a little different
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Oct 19, 2018 14:59
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my man
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FoolyCharged posted:Heres another unpopular opinion. Regenerating health is cool and good. Good riddance to trying to having to survive a fight unscathed because the last one beat you to death's door and there weren't any medkits yet. I don’t think it is inherently bad, but if you don’t design your game around it then it’s terrible. I’m not a fan of heath packs myself, I much prefer performance based health regen. Revengence did this very well, but you have to be careful to ensure you don’t cause a regressive negative feedback loop. The “take a medkit with you” approach is alright as well, see the Souls series and assorted FPSs.
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Oct 19, 2018 15:01
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signalnoise posted:Sure but you'd still want that poo poo in more than one place. If you can burn stuff using friction then the fact that that is possible in that game should be made known to the player. I mean, I specifically remember liking that lever puzzle in Myst, because the solution was a gimmick. I've never heard of Hotel Dusk, but I would probably have enjoyed that too. Like I said in my previous post though, this opinion is incorrect. I appreciate that being stumped by something that doesn't seem to be playing by the rules feels unfair, or that if a solution is arbitrary it isn't as much to do with skill as dumb luck. My sentiment though is that I like things that feel unfair much much more than things that are so familiar as to be rote. Actually I like things that are unfair a great deal. I played 'I wanna be the guy' quite a lot. (Yeah, that's cheating / doesn't lend itself to my point, but y'know.) I'm kind of the same with movies. I'd much much much rather a film show me a new idea than it be well acted, written or directed. The shot in Dune where Feyd crushes an animal in a little transparent box and drinks its blood is BETTER in my opinion, than the entirety of 'The Wife'. Like, I haven't seen 'The Wife', just a trailer for it, and I know how it ends, because there's no other way that a critically acclaimed version of that movie would ever end. Because of how it ends, I know how the rest of it plays out too. There wouldn't be a moment in that movie where I'm presented with a 'new' idea. And yet, I can appreciate that 'The Wife' is obviously a brilliant movie.
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Oct 19, 2018 15:25
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FoolyCharged posted:Hes right though. It gets a ton of crap these days, but when halo dropped it was hugely innovative, had a wide variety of weapons and powerups, and fun driving even if it had a bit of a learning curve to it. Halo didn't create or innovate on any of those things, it just brought them to a console title with effective shooter controls for the first time.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:45
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QuarkJets posted:effective shooter controls No console FPS other than metroid prime has effective shooter controls. It is baffling to me how many people seem to be stuck in the plato's cave of fps console gaming when the alternative feels so, so much better.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:55
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QuarkJets posted:Halo didn't create or innovate on any of those things, it just brought them to a console title with effective shooter controls for the first time. yes, that's why they were separate points. I can't think of any major titles before it with regenerating health in any capacity, a non terrible ability to be controlled on consoles, two weapons that quick swapped, or the way its melee attack worked.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:56
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Even Perfect Dark running at 2 frames per second is better than Halo, the singlemost milquetoast game series ever brought to market.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:13
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I thought Halo was cool even though I wasn't used to gamepad controls. Sorry, everyone.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:26
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Halo 1 had one cool thing: if you had a plasma pistol you could rapid fire as fast as you could press down on the trigger repeatedly, meaning you could ambush an elite and sort of ram on the trigger as fast as you could with the side of one hand, like some kind of cowboy, dropping its shields with a crazy plasma volley, then you could switch to the pistol and shoot the elite in the head. The hardest difficulty was pretty cool, hunters and jackals required precise aim but it was rewarding to take down a pair of hunters by just casually walking up to them, dodging them and shooting them both in the back. I don't love the game but it at least had those things. I want mechanically challenging and fun fights, meaning either precise aim or interesting tactics. Half Life 1 had those, Half Life 2 didn't.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:28
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FoolyCharged posted:yes, that's why they were separate points. I can't think of any major titles before it with regenerating health in any capacity, a non terrible ability to be controlled on consoles, two weapons that quick swapped, or the way its melee attack worked. Designated grenade button alongside optional vehicle segments and while not copied as much enemy radar. There are games that did pieces of this prior (Hello Atari Jaguar AvP) but much like nobody gives a poo poo about Kill.Switch or Midi Maze, Halo put all the disparate parts into a single cohesive package to show the strength of the unified experience and thus set the standard. Halo 2 then basically did the same thing for online matchmaking and started the death of server lobbies.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:33
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Even Perfect Dark running at 2 frames per second is better than Halo, the singlemost milquetoast game series ever brought to market. Perfect Dark was on a console with the world's worst controller though I agree that Halo is trash regardless
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Oct 19, 2018 20:42
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Sardonik posted:No console FPS other than metroid prime has effective shooter controls. It is baffling to me how many people seem to be stuck in the plato's cave of fps console gaming when the alternative feels so, so much better. The controls were effective, even if they weren't good. KB+M controls are good. Goldeneye controls are what I'd call ineffective lol
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Oct 19, 2018 20:44
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QuarkJets posted:Perfect Dark was on a console with the world's worst controller though Hey, you'll get no argument from me there
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Oct 19, 2018 20:47
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Rare games are boring and lovely though, all of them.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:53
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Shibawanko posted:Rare games are boring and lovely though, all of them. Yeah, that's why there aren't more of them.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:55
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olives black posted:Are the 2nd and 3rd ones worth playing? I just beat Doom 2016 on Nightmare and I'm jonesing for something a little different imo, both are definitely worth a shot if adventure games are your thing, Buried in Time has a built-in walkthrough mode IIRC if you get stuck on puzzles too the third game, legacy of time, has a far better interface and the suit lets you talk to people in the past the opening to BiT is cool because it doesn't waste any time throwing you right into what's happening, you get a brief recap\epilogue from the first game and then bam, a future you comes back and tells you you've been framed, here's your suit, sending ya back into the past to try to solve this poo poo, cya
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Oct 19, 2018 20:56
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Sardonik posted:No console FPS other than metroid prime has effective shooter controls. It is baffling to me how many people seem to be stuck in the plato's cave of fps console gaming when the alternative feels so, so much better. Those controls are fine for the kind of game it is, dire for say, Call of Duty. Unless you mean the Wii re-release in which case the only thing that really sucks is door opening
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Oct 19, 2018 20:56
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Halo is good
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Oct 19, 2018 22:17
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Even Perfect Dark running at 2 frames per second is better than Halo, the singlemost milquetoast game series ever brought to market. you mean the game where you play badass space marine and you have to stop the evil aliens from destroying your home planet? where you discover an even more evil ancient race of aliens that will destroy everyone?? I know someone who unironically thought that Halo was the best sci-fi story he'd ever heard. He's now a member of a far right militia.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:21
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Sardonik posted:No console FPS other than metroid prime has effective shooter controls. It is baffling to me how many people seem to be stuck in the plato's cave of fps console gaming when the alternative feels so, so much better. Nudoom is great with a controller.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:29
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hawowanlawow posted:Halo is good it was I really don't get the continued hatred for it when it pretty much set the standard for fps's now oh wait now I get it
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Oct 19, 2018 22:40
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Halo was bad when it was new. Gunplay was poo poo. Covenant and the flood both are boring rear end enemies. Pass.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:45
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My Linux Rig posted:it was No, it absolutely didn't. It dumbed that standard down for a good decade and we've only recently accomplished a partial recovery thank loving god
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Oct 19, 2018 22:46
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:No, it absolutely didn't. It dumbed that standard down for a good decade and we've only recently accomplished a partial recovery thank loving god How did it dumb poo poo down didnt it have the most advanced ai at the time?
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Oct 19, 2018 22:51
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Rutibex posted:i would like to see more FPS in the early "flat maze" style of Wolvenstein 3D, BlakeStone, Corridor 7, etc. I feel this is a genre that is sorely underrepresented in our modern retro remake world The flat maze games worked because you could race across the map in ten seconds. You could have very complex geometry and relatively big maps while being fun. Now, that is just not going to happen in a controller era, and when game protagonists move at a light jogging speed. Which seems kinda paradoxical given that those games originally didn't even expect users to own a mouse.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:52
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DogonCrook posted:How did it dumb poo poo down didnt it have the most advanced ai at the time? The ultimate FPS innovation: an unending circular-strafe.
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Oct 19, 2018 23:06
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Anyways, I don't really have a grudge against regen health per se, but I prefer it as the supplement of a combo health-pack system. I also think HL2's dual recharge shields was v good. I like some incentive to explore the environment.
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Oct 19, 2018 23:09
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basic hitler posted:Halo was bad when it was new. Gunplay was poo poo. Covenant and the flood both are boring rear end enemies. Pass. Halo did great dynamic battles, had really good weapons and enemies, a few amazing levels (and tbf a lot of dull ones), was a console fps that felt good to play and pioneered a bunch of things that then got relentlessly run into the ground by subsequent games. It's the console hl2.
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Oct 19, 2018 23:36
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Idk i hated everything about how Halo approached being a FPS and dynamic fights dont make up for the fact that it popularized some real bad ideas
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Oct 19, 2018 23:52
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The grenades were perfect. So was bukkakeing one of those goblin things with an entire clip of needles and watching them run around screaming before exploding. The shotgun was also really good, for all you got it late in the game.
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Oct 20, 2018 00:00
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basic hitler posted:Idk i hated everything about how Halo approached being a FPS and dynamic fights dont make up for the fact that it popularized some real bad ideas Halo 1 multiplayer was straight up revolutionary for a console FPS. It essentially became the modern Goldeneye at the time. And no, I don't give a poo poo about Timesplitters.
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Oct 20, 2018 00:07
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dreadmojo posted:The grenades were perfect. So was bukkakeing one of those goblin things with an entire clip of needles and watching them run around screaming before exploding. The shotgun was also really good, for all you got it late in the game. Yeah it was just good fun and worked well. At least it didn't make you jump through hoops and there really were several solutions to every fight every time.
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Oct 20, 2018 00:19
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Wrath of the Bitch King posted:And no, I don't give a poo poo about Timesplitters. What!? 
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Oct 20, 2018 00:25
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Halo and Halo 2 had rad campaigns that allowed for co-op. The first half of the Halo 2 campaign is super stupidly epic and cool, even if I never got around to finishing it.
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Oct 20, 2018 01:30
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