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clearly my current project, which consists of copying the code off of github and checking it into tfs vc, is a winning strategy.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:07
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We use Git with Azure DevOps, so we're fine until Azure goes up in flames again.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:27
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SVN here. Losing the ability to commit would have been annoying the last two jobs, but git has really good support for stashing changes so it might not have slowed us down all that much.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:42
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LLSix posted:SVN here. Losing the ability to commit would have been annoying the last two jobs, but git has really good support for stashing changes so it might not have slowed us down all that much. Not just that, you can use another coworkers (or your own) computer as a temporary git server, or just mail patches back and forth as necessary, then push things once GitHub is back up.
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Oct 22, 2018 22:32
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Let me get this straight, a third-party service goes down and the entire Dev team pivots to rolling-chair races? And this, inexplicably, does not result in the CTO's disgraceful exit?
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Oct 22, 2018 22:54
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Volmarias posted:What's a git hub? A miserable pile of texts
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Oct 22, 2018 23:27
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Hey! My current job (big non technology corporation that has some software products) is undergoing restructuring. I've been the "team lead" for a scrum team for a while now. I'm still technically a "developer" in the HR system but they are telling me that once they sift out all the red tape I'll have myself a proper title and even more exciting, (hopefully) a bigger check. Does anyone have any ballpark estimates for this type of salary? The usual suspects like Glassdoor didn't help much. If it helps, I live in the southeast (USA).
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Oct 23, 2018 00:18
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This is not an answer to your question, but next time you should refuse to take on important leadership responsibilities without getting a raise. Companies getting away with that is one of the many ways we internalize and accept exploitation.
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Oct 23, 2018 00:24
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TheReverend posted:Hey! christ man you're gullible. do you still believe in santa claus too?
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Oct 23, 2018 00:26
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No I hear ya there. This big ole company though is also through a nearly year long hiring freeze until they sort through the restructuring. Like if people leave, it requires the VP to sign forms saying we can replace them. I know they aren't bullshitting me about this and we have plans to sort it out by the end of the year. My manager is from a west coast giant tech company he knows very well that promotions without salary increases just serve to make your employees resume look awesome for someone else so there's an understanding that for this year the bonus may be unusually large for this year only and then starting next year new title , new salary etc. TL;DR: Yeah I agree 100%.
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Oct 23, 2018 00:29
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:christ man you're gullible. do you still believe in santa claus too? Well they say we'll get this sorted by the end of the year so I'll know for sure then. They have promoted me and stuff before, they are just seriously slow with certain things (hence company wide restructuring).
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Oct 23, 2018 00:32
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TheReverend posted:No I hear ya there. If you leave someone else becomes the manager and takes your responsibilities in addition to the ones they already had. If you've been promoted before and believe that they're genuine, good, but there's a reason that the thread is jaded and bitter. Look on glassdoor, we don't know what the salary for your COL area is. If you're inside Atlanta it's going to be different than Tallahassee.
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Oct 23, 2018 01:08
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Am I the bad meetings person because I asked our director a bunch of follow up questions for when he was explaining various product lines. Stuff like, oh, if we're planning on doing this does it include A, B, C? I felt bad afterwards. edit: This was during our weekly planning session that gives an overview of what's going on and our director likes to go into various strategic initiatives.
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Oct 23, 2018 01:14
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Maybe. You night have been derailing the meeting asking too many questions for the time available, but that should have gotten a "sorry, let's discuss this afterwards Shirec" if so. Also, product planning is vague bullshit subject to change at all times up to and including launch time.
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Oct 23, 2018 01:18
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Boiled Water posted:A miserable pile of texts
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Oct 23, 2018 04:40
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I mean we can work without Github. But things that change without it: - Pull requests and reviews. We can do those locally by pair programming if needed but I prefer the github diff view. - CI and automatic publish and deploy. We use github webhooks for those. The alternative is starting those up locally but that's a hassle too. We could decide to hold off on those until Github restores but when every team member is working on a separate library or service that belong to the same user story and hence have dependencies on each other, yes it does slow things down. SVN or manual version control and manual deployments is all fine when you're building a monolith but when you're working on hundreds of microservices it doesn't cut it anymore and you need automation in your company's CI pipeline. Sadly, that often causes people to forget how to do stuff manually - if the security policy even allows that at all. Note that the git server part of Github was never down, it was only the PR pages and other metadata stuff that isn't part of git itself. So pushing/pulling branches was no issue.
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Oct 23, 2018 07:03
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JawnV6 posted:Let me get this straight, a third-party service goes down and the entire Dev team pivots to rolling-chair races? And this, inexplicably, does not result in the CTO's disgraceful exit? Some people seem to think that using a distributed source control system in a strictly hierarchical fashion is fine and good. These people belong in the coding horror thread.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:26
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Hughlander posted:Some people seem to think that using a distributed source control system in a strictly hierarchical fashion is fine and good. These people belong in the coding horror thread. The real coding horror is how few people actually know git. I always end up the git maintainer by virtue of being the one guy who knows how to explain how branches and merges work.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:19
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BurntCornMuffin posted:The real coding horror is how few people actually know git. That's Git's fault for having wildly unhelpful documentation, obtuse output, and one of the least intuitive CLIs I've ever encountered.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:23
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Just got super shot down in my proposal why we should model the data one way instead of another way.  Failure happens, but it also comes with the price of holding up the work to be done. I’ve recently had to balance my interest in furthering my career and taking a higher level role in executing projects, and having to acquiesce to pre-made designs and architectures to move things through that prevents me from growing as an engineer. There’s a balancing act between Getting Good and Getting poo poo Done that if not properly performed, can lead to real bad things, and it’s hard.I get that impostor syndrome is a thing, but that doesn’t mean you can’t suck.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:32
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:That's Git's fault for having wildly unhelpful documentation, obtuse output, and one of the least intuitive CLIs I've ever encountered. It makes perfect sense if you’re managing Linux development. Every time I’m at an impasse with git, I ask myself, “What would Linus Torvalds do?” Then I go yell at a junior dev.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:35
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:That's Git's fault for having wildly unhelpful documentation, obtuse output, and one of the least intuitive CLIs I've ever encountered. Plus I've used like 6 different Git GUI utilities and in my experience it seems like they all do things just a little differently. I use the VS Git tools to stage changes, but beyond that, any pushing, pulling or branching is done in the CLI, that way I know exactly what is going on. Plus, it's a lot easier to just type "git reset --hard HEAD" whenever poo poo inevitably blows up.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:39
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milk moosie posted:Just got super shot down in my proposal why we should model the data one way instead of another way. consolation prize: part of being an engineer is sucking it up and making do with others' bad decisions. you are a better engineer than someone who just rolled over and said "ah well let's do it the dumb way" without proposing any alternative. Also, it's hard to read what your work relationships and interactions are like when you just use a short phrase like "super shot down". If you feel threatened (i.e. like your position isn't safe or your desired career trajectory isn't safe) at an interaction that may or may not be inherently threatening, that's something to pay attention to-- the cause of that sense of threat may be in your environment, in yourself, or both.
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Oct 23, 2018 17:51
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git cli is the worst ui to learn unless you actually have a fair amount of time and a good guide or instructor. git cli has the best return on invested time learning. fite me
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Oct 23, 2018 17:52
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Mercurial should have won but the toothpaste's out of the tube now
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Oct 23, 2018 17:53
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Taffer posted:This is not an answer to your question, but next time you should refuse to take on important leadership responsibilities without getting a raise. Companies getting away with that is one of the many ways we internalize and accept exploitation. it's pretty sad but even within the professions a certain degree of exploitation acceptance is required-- doctors all work crazy hours through certain phases of their training, even though it's known that it leads to higher stress, worse patient care, etc. etc. and being a doctor is a high status, well-codified profession. software development and IT, being less well-codified are likely to see more incidents of "hey, we're kinda going to kinda take advantage of you for a little bit, but don't worry! we've got your back and will totally make it up to you"
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Oct 23, 2018 17:57
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I hate git solely because of the insane cli and have never bothered to really, fully learn it. We don't use it at work so that hasn't given me any reason to do it either.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:03
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if you've got some time to waste and want to learn a few dumb git tricks, enough to potentially make you either good or just dangerous, may I suggest https://learngitbranching.js.org/
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Oct 23, 2018 18:16
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prisoner of waffles posted:if you've got some time to waste and want to learn a few dumb git tricks, enough to potentially make you either good or just dangerous, may I suggest https://learngitbranching.js.org/ But seriously just learn git, it's the best.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:20
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Clanpot Shake posted:But seriously just learn git, it's the best.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:32
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Both of those look good. There's also this: http://www.ohshitgit.com/ I just remembered that our company is trying to contribute to open source stuff, and one of the roadblocks is that a previous developer hosed up the git commit history so badly that the project maintainer won't merge our stuff, so some of this stuff could be useful. (Not my project, it's garbage and I want nothing to do with it)
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Oct 23, 2018 18:32
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Git is both good and bad in that it gives you a lot of tools to get yourself out of a hole, but it also gives you a lot of tools to get into that hole in the first place... I personally have not had too many large issues, I think a lot of the issues people have at my work are self-inflicted, and I really don't have a lot of faith in my peers. Macichne Leainig fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 19:02
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If you're a reasonably CS-minded person already and grasp things like graph structures, Think Like (a) Git is the best one
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Oct 23, 2018 19:33
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Hughlander posted:Some people seem to think that using a distributed source control system in a strictly hierarchical fashion is fine and good. These people belong in the coding horror thread. Counterpoint: this is cool and good in the real world
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Oct 23, 2018 20:17
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Shirec posted:Am I the bad meetings person because I asked our director a bunch of follow up questions for when he was explaining various product lines. Stuff like, oh, if we're planning on doing this does it include A, B, C? I felt bad afterwards. The point of meetings is to ask questions. If the director didn't want questions they could send weekly emails instead. FWIW, someone always asked questions like that at our product planning meetings.
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Oct 23, 2018 20:40
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The thing about git is that the basic model that it uses is inherently complex, so any attempt to simplify it (through e.g. a GUI) ends up obscuring something important. You've got to understand the nature of the thing that the tool is meant to operate on, but once you do, you can see the operations that are possible and learn the name for each one. It takes practice.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:48
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TheReverend posted:Well they say we'll get this sorted by the end of the year so I'll know for sure then. The ship has pretty much sailed here but I think the correct move, assuming you believe them, is to get assurance that the pay rise will be backdated to the point where you took on the extra responsibility. The hiring freeze and restructuring should be the company's problem, not yours, and if they can't replace anybody then you have even more leverage. If you don't think you would otherwise get the promotion that could maybe make it worthwhile, but don't trade away a stronger position for nothing.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:53
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Protocol7 posted:Git is both good and bad in that it gives you a lot of tools to get yourself out of a hole, but it also gives you a lot of tools to get into that hole in the first place... It's pretty much this. Git is an incredibly powerful and useful tool that can do amazing things. When you know how to use it well, it can massively improve productivity while also having tons of safeguards to ensure that things don't break. But, it's also the worst in having an incredibly opaque CLI that's shockingly unintuitive, and even people with a lot of experience in it will constantly need to reference the right operations. Git is incredibly complex and therefore hard to learn and wrap your mind around it just by its nature, but the terrible UI decisions make it far more difficult than it needs to be. For me it started out as pure hatred when I was learning it. I couldn't stand how it operated, but eventually I learned how powerful it was and how to bend it to my will, which made me love it. But the hate is still there, it will forever be a love/hate relationship.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:45
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Taffer posted:It's pretty much this. Git is an incredibly powerful and useful tool that can do amazing things. When you know how to use it well, it can massively improve productivity while also having tons of safeguards to ensure that things don't break. A lot of the Git man pages could use a "please explain this to me in three sentences or less" button.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:09
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BurntCornMuffin posted:The real coding horror is how few people actually know git. I always end up the git maintainer by virtue of being the one guy who knows how to explain how branches and merges work. That's why I have 'Explain git to me.' as part of tech interviews. Any time we made the mistake of moving forward with someone who couldn't understand a DAG of commits they didn't work out.
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Oct 24, 2018 00:41
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