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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Please note that some comments, like mine, are more pointed to "I do not like the look of it, I have lost interest" rather than "lol game dumb, it is going to fail". No you see because anybody who said they were disappointed with it being very similar to EU4 is just raging and angry and dumb.  I don't think any of the comments even went close to undeniably saying the game was going to be horrible.
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Oct 23, 2018 19:44
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Man you sure showed me
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Oct 23, 2018 20:37
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Johan posted:The battlefield have 60 different positions for each side, as well as a reserve where cohorts currently not fighting will be. Armies will be organised with infantry in the middle, cavalry on the flanks and ranged support in the backline when possible. I liked this dev diary because it looks like we'll have a mini battle board instead of the two lines of EU4 and this might imply lines breaking, encirclements and cavalry charging into the rear, Conquest of Elysium 4 style. Unless I'm sorely mistaken and the 60 positions just mean two lines of 30 slots for each side and that's it
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Oct 23, 2018 21:18
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Pretty sure it’s the latter. E: if paradox games were about combat I would be very disappointed by this dev diary. Fortunately, they are not.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:54
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Randarkman posted:You seem mostly fixated on the combat tactics system, and honestly from reading the dev diary, those seem more like that might end up mostly inconsequential than anything else. The way you set 1 offensive and 1 defensive tactic for an army ahead of time, almost make them seem more like army stances than anything else, and with them only giving bonuses based on what tactics your opponent is using they mgiht very well not end up even mattering alot of the time. Which is unfortunate, if the tactics are indeed more like stances (I imagine you can't change them mid-battle, though maybe it's possible at a cost or something, though that might be unnecessarily fiddly and micromanagey and allow you to negate whatever tactic your AI opponent has at will) then it would be more appropriate, I think, if they gave bonuses to certain types of troops with the degree of that bonus governed by the skill and traits (especially if you have general skills, so certain generals may be better suited for certain tactics/stances and compositions than others) of the general. If the tactics are going to be inconsequential then why do they exist in the first place 
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Oct 23, 2018 21:55
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Koramei posted:Pretty sure it’s the latter. I mean EU is basically about painting the map and combat. Since this game is just EU with some light CK it’s kind of important.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:56
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I know we reduce it to that a lot but it’s really not actually true unless you’re only doing OPM starts. Eu is about diplomacy and country management, the latter of which it looks like Rome has fleshed our way beyond what EU has.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:00
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Every paradox game is about diplomacy that’s meaningless. I haven’t seen any real in depth county management either. Bout the same as EU or any paradox game.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:01
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Maybe instead of Dev Diaries they should just have someone like Jake stream the game for an hour.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:Every paradox game is about diplomacy that’s meaningless. I haven’t seen any real in depth county management either. Bout the same as EU or any paradox game. You mean other than literally all the character stuff, I.e. the core part of the game? And they’re really not about diplomacy like EU is.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:04
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I forget, does Canada have a communism focus branch? If it does the first thing I'll do is play USA and use the custom game setup thingy to put both Canada and Mexico on the communist path and then the three of us will liberate the old world from the clutches of capitalism   
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Oct 23, 2018 22:12
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Koramei posted:You mean other than literally all the character stuff, I.e. the core part of the game? And they’re really not about diplomacy like EU is. Yes? Also what diplomacy does EU do that is particularly different. EU is the vanilla game it doesn’t really do anything special which is fine as that’s a niche that needs filling. The problem is Rome is fitting that same niche as it doesn’t really seem to do anything special outside the civil war mechanic which is neat but not enough to make it feel different.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:13
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RabidWeasel posted:If the tactics are going to be inconsequential then why do they exist in the first place That's my problem with it really. If you actually end up having to make the choice pretty much by guesswork ahead of time and the AI also kind of randomizes its choice, then with 4 or 5 tactics to choose from and each one having one tactic it is good against and one it is bad against (and we look away from the retreat tactic which seems more circumstantial), then tactics would be utterly meaningless about 50% of the time, which is weird.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:13
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The CK2 combat system is actually really cool in a lot of ways like how troop type, culture and personality traits affect tactics. It's just that the interface is so opaque it's almost impossible to understand or use it without reading a guide and spending way too much time micromanaging. So I just ignore it and blob.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:18
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Mantis42 posted:Maybe instead of Dev Diaries they should just have someone like Jake stream the game for an hour.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:22
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OctaviusBeaver posted:The CK2 combat system is actually really cool in a lot of ways like how troop type, culture and personality traits affect tactics. It's just that the interface is so opaque it's almost impossible to understand or use it without reading a guide and spending way too much time micromanaging. So I just ignore it and blob. Yes, there is something interesting going on in CK2 combat actually. The problem is that this is so under-utilized in vanilla CK2, and also extremely opaque as you say. It can be utilized better by mods. But a problem is that generally in CK2 you have so little control over the actual composition of your armies.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:24
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imperator does not currently have a clearly articulated vision of what it is and why it should appeal to me other than "a new paradox game directed by johan with lots of boring fiddly-rear end stats". that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be bad but it does make it hard to get overly excited about europa universalis 4 AD.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:31
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Koramei posted:E: if paradox games were about combat I would be very disappointed by this dev diary. Fortunately, they are not. this is such a bizarre take to me
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Oct 23, 2018 22:40
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Cease to Hope posted:imperator does not currently have a clearly articulated vision of what it is and why it should appeal to me other than "a new paradox game directed by johan with lots of boring fiddly-rear end stats". that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be bad but it does make it hard to get overly excited about europa universalis 4 AD. The strongest way I can sell it to myself is as "EU4 without exploration (I loving hate how much everything to do with exploration / colonisation breaks the game balance wise) and with like 10 times the province density and awesome civil wars". Which sounds pretty good actually.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:49
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BBJoey posted:this is such a bizarre take to me Yeah, combat is basically all there is to *do* in PDX games. Except Vicky b/c there you could build factories and watch numbers go up
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Oct 23, 2018 23:02
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VostokProgram posted:Yeah, combat is basically all there is to *do* in PDX games. Except Vicky b/c there you could build factories and watch numbers go up
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Oct 23, 2018 23:05
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Yeah you can play diplomacy, I’m not great at combat and my favorite strategy is using others to do the heavy lifting. Though combat is a huge part of any paradox games.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:07
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VostokProgram posted:Yeah, combat is basically all there is to *do* in PDX games. Except Vicky b/c there you could build factories and watch numbers go up I...completely disagree. Stuff surrounding war is super important sure (although it's still not remotely the only important thing), but the particular interface for the battles is rarely very relevant. You could replace the EU battle system with the one from CK2 and aside from OPM starts the game would probably feel basically identical. For me, there's a reason I switched my interest to Paradox games and away from Total War when I found out about them, and it is not because the combat is better.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:08
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Why are people acting like PI games are all about tactics? the tactics in EU4 can be simplified by 'click tech up, click new best unit for either defend, attack, balance, spam cav early and spam arty late.' You can be a complete moron and not understand the game tactics and do just fine with more/better numbers/modifiers.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:14
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Koramei posted:You could replace the EU battle system with the one from CK2 and aside from OPM starts the game would probably feel basically identical.  this is a bad thing
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Oct 23, 2018 23:26
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Right, in that in an ideal game it’d be something more interesting (although hopefully still not focusing too much more attention away from other more important parts), but as it stands that means that area of the game doesn’t need much focus for the rest of the game to be good. The character and political system will make or break this game, not that its combat uses the same basic system as EU.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:45
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paradox grand strategy plus conquest of elysium combat would be the greatest game ever made but only if it still had ridiculous magic
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Oct 24, 2018 04:01
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Still really looking forward to Imperator, even if only it's because I'm excited about my mod for it. Truth be told, I pretty much agree with Koramei on this. I:R doesn't need to reinvent the wheel and I think it's looking pretty good. Got most of the rivers done, about 80% now:  Just need to do the Rio Grande, the Carribean rivers, and the Eastern Seaboard rivers. Once that's done, it will be time to start outlining provinces and then dividing those up further by cities. My plan is to use watersheds to define the various regions so that borders feel natural in a post-apoc setting.
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Oct 24, 2018 08:13
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Oh hey, there's the Salinas. I'm always amazed when the parts of California outside of the big cities get any attention.
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Oct 24, 2018 17:04
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ExtraNoise posted:Still really looking forward to Imperator, even if only it's because I'm excited about my mod for it. Truth be told, I pretty much agree with Koramei on this. I:R doesn't need to reinvent the wheel and I think it's looking pretty good. The amount of detail you're putting into this is completely insane, I hope someone appreciates it.
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Oct 24, 2018 18:25
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if it doesn’t work out we got a very purty map out of it
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Oct 24, 2018 20:34
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VostokProgram posted:I forget, does Canada have a communism focus branch? If it does the first thing I'll do is play USA and use the custom game setup thingy to put both Canada and Mexico on the communist path and then the three of us will liberate the old world from the clutches of capitalism Yeah, Canada's Communist route is Patriation > Burn the Royal Portraits > Communist Labour Total War Committee and ends with the standard "Join the Comintern or do your own Communism instead" choice.
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Oct 24, 2018 20:53
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Changes in who will write the imperator DDs , Trin Tragula will take over https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/development-diary-changes.1125528/
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Oct 26, 2018 17:30
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Star posted:Changes in who will write the imperator DDs , Trin Tragula will take over https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/development-diary-changes.1125528/ [Affronted sniff]
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Oct 26, 2018 21:05
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Star posted:Changes in who will write the imperator DDs , Trin Tragula will take over https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/development-diary-changes.1125528/ *audible sigh of relief as the hype train finally manages to leave the station*
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Oct 26, 2018 21:20
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probably for the best. johan's detail-oriented statistical approach is good when we already have the context for all the game's existing systems, but it doesn't give us the sort of top-down design-goal perspective we need to understand the appeal of an unreleased game.
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Oct 27, 2018 09:59
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-development-diary-29th-of-october-2018-italy-450-auc.1125966/ I'm one of those weirdos that really like Johan's dev diaries, but... I gotta say that this is really good and has got me all excited again. I love the inclusion of so many screenshots to comb over. Edit: catlord posted:Trin Tragula's first DD, about the starting setup in Italy. 
ExtraNoise fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Oct 29, 2018 |
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Oct 29, 2018 22:12
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Trin Tragula's first DD, about the starting setup in Italy. Edit: gently caress.
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Oct 29, 2018 22:14
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In all these screenshots, you can only barely see any province borders beneath the country borders. I wonder how much that'll change the kinesthetics of the game. Also there's not really any sign of terrain affecting the map beyond aesthetics yet. No solid mountain barriers, but the interior of Sardinia is either impassable or unclaimed? Weird.
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Oct 29, 2018 23:00
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There are an absolute assload of solid mountain barriers, they just get covered by the colors of whatever nation holds the most land next to them. If you look at the zoomed in thing of Sicily you can make them out pretty easily.
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Oct 29, 2018 23:06
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