[Mideast + Africa] Getting rid of Bongo- but at what Brice?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Mideast + Africa] Getting rid of Bongo- but at what Brice?

qkkl: Jul 1, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

THS posted:

scapegoating your formerly powerful and trusted advisors is a classic strategic move and absolutely wont cause even bigger problems later on

Nah, Stalin purged the head of the NKVD after the Great Purge. As long as the military is headed by loyalists MbS is fine.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 22:52

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 07:56

THS: Sep 15, 2017

loyalty and disloyalty, either gets you beheaded

# ? Oct 22, 2018 22:53

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

my Pakistani colleague told me today that she thinks that the americans are framing the saudis for the murder of that journalist and I said that I would believe it but occam's razer is edging that possibility pretty cleanly off

# ? Oct 22, 2018 23:54

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Meanwhile the US State Department just wants to start getting everyone hyped up for a war with Iran
https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/1054426880537960448

Thank you Iran for helping the Palestinian cause

# ? Oct 23, 2018 01:18

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 20 days!)

Over Easy posted:

my Pakistani colleague told me today that she thinks that the americans are framing the saudis for the murder of that journalist and I said that I would believe it but occam's razer is edging that possibility pretty cleanly off

The Saudis have hosed up explaining it away so thoroughly you've really gotta be reaching to believe the US framed them for it.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 01:20

Algund Eenboom: May 4, 2014

Ah, but that's just what they WANT you to think

# ? Oct 23, 2018 01:33

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1054344906888617984

# ? Oct 23, 2018 01:48

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

This has got to be the laziest assassination of all time

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1054705898348834818?s=19

# ? Oct 23, 2018 15:35

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Joseance posted:

This has got to be the laziest assassination of all time

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1054705898348834818?s=19

It is super dope how the Saudis can't do anything right.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 15:38

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 20 days!)

Joseance posted:

This has got to be the laziest assassination of all time

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1054705898348834818?s=19

You mean the most hilarious assassination of all time.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 15:54

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Giving Rasputin's assassination a run for it's money there.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 16:12

Taintrunner: Apr 10, 2017; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

forkboy84 posted:

It is super dope how the Saudis can't do anything right.

And yet there is a bipartisan consensus on giving them everything they want!

# ? Oct 23, 2018 17:05

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

this whole situation would be a really good iannucci movie/tv show

# ? Oct 23, 2018 17:11

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Azathoth posted:

Giving Rasputin's assassination a run for it's money there.

I too hope this means a buncg of extreme authoritarian socialists launch a revolution and exterminate the Saudi family in the next five years.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 17:16

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Karl Barks posted:

this whole situation would be a really good iannucci movie/tv show

I dunno, I think it's another example that satire is basically dead. It is practically impossible to come up with a situation more absurd than hacking to death a dissident in your embassy, failing to dispose of the body, failing to even wear the right shoes when you send one of your assassins out the front door in his clothes to claim he left the embassy, failing to notice the Turks had clearly bugged the embassy with amazing efficiency, and then failing to come up with an even half-believable cover story despite being given weeks and most of the world's governments practically bending over backwards to believe them.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 17:16

A Gnarlacious Bro: Apr 25, 2007; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Yeah but if you do a satire than all the drones can have fun laughing and passively enjoying it instead of ignoring it because their 2 sad to process non-screen information

# ? Oct 23, 2018 17:19

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

Hey so I'm not reading 78 pages of posts. I'm Jewish and I was talking with a Jewish friend of mine after he brought up how some leftists at a bar were talking about how Israel was bad.

Is there an article giving a summary of how hosed up Israel actually is and how the Israeli right is trying to make anti-zionism anti-Semitism?

Basically, I need "Babbys first Israel Is Bad" to share

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:19

Prav: Oct 29, 2011

forkboy84 posted:

I dunno, I think it's another example that satire is basically dead. It is practically impossible to come up with a situation more absurd than hacking to death a dissident in your embassy, failing to dispose of the body, failing to even wear the right shoes when you send one of your assassins out the front door in his clothes to claim he left the embassy, failing to notice the Turks had clearly bugged the embassy with amazing efficiency, and then failing to come up with an even half-believable cover story despite being given weeks and most of the world's governments practically bending over backwards to believe them.

sounds like the outline for a fawlty towers episode tbh

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:34

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 20 days!)

Karl Barks posted:

this whole situation would be a really good iannucci movie/tv show

It's more like the earnest buffoonery of a Coen Brothers movie.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:40

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's more like the earnest buffoonery of a Coen Brothers movie.

Plan A was to feed the body into a wood chipper

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:52

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

I'm picturing it more like the Keystone Cops but with a dash of Tarantino.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 19:34

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

is there a sign in my garden that says dead wapo oped writer storage?! - saudi consulate director probably

# ? Oct 23, 2018 20:25

coathat: May 21, 2007

Insane video of Turkish soilders getting owned by PKK.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AgireMerdine/status/1054732181740883978

# ? Oct 23, 2018 21:24

brakeless: Apr 11, 2011

what are sentries

we just don't know

# ? Oct 23, 2018 21:29

guidoanselmi: Feb 6, 2008; I thought my ideas were so clear. I wanted to make an honest post. No lies whatsoever.

Business Gorillas posted:

Hey so I'm not reading 78 pages of posts. I'm Jewish and I was talking with a Jewish friend of mine after he brought up how some leftists at a bar were talking about how Israel was bad.

Is there an article giving a summary of how hosed up Israel actually is and how the Israeli right is trying to make anti-zionism anti-Semitism?

Basically, I need "Babbys first Israel Is Bad" to share

I mean I have no idea where to start because it'd help that the author be a trusted arbiter. I'm sure me and a lotta folks might have issues in this thread, but https://forward.com/author/peter-beinart/ (namely: https://forward.com/opinion/408066/...ting-4-headline ) and other stuff on Forward might be a good start down the rabbit hole.

There's some activist Israelis in the IP thread in DnD that might be able to help.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 21:42

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's more like the earnest buffoonery of a Coen Brothers movie.

yeah this is basically the sequel to Burn After Reading

# ? Oct 23, 2018 22:48

Class Warcraft: Apr 27, 2006

coathat posted:

Insane video of Turkish soilders getting owned by PKK.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AgireMerdine/status/1054732181740883978

My favorite part is the POV of the guy in front when you see the grenade thrown by the dude behind come whistling like an inch past his face.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 23:32

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

i wanted to press R to reload his gun

# ? Oct 24, 2018 01:22

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Karl Barks posted:

this whole situation would be a really good iannucci movie/tv show

I lolled over the extremely bad body double walking out of the embassy wearing sneakers.

# ? Oct 24, 2018 02:34

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Business Gorillas posted:

Hey so I'm not reading 78 pages of posts. I'm Jewish and I was talking with a Jewish friend of mine after he brought up how some leftists at a bar were talking about how Israel was bad.

Is there an article giving a summary of how hosed up Israel actually is and how the Israeli right is trying to make anti-zionism anti-Semitism?

Basically, I need "Babbys first Israel Is Bad" to share

quote:

the only problem they have with the Nazis is that Jews were one of the groups Hitler targeted

they're more than happy to emulate the Nazis in other ways

like, you'd think Holocaust survivors would have come away with the lesson "genocide is bad", but for a lot of them, "never again" meant "never let this kind of thing happen to Jews again" rather than "never let this kind of thing happen ever again".

though there's also a big class angle. the Israeli political class largely isn't drawn from Holocaust survivors or their descendants - they're drawn from the families who emigrated to Israel well before Hitler came to power and got active in Zionist separatism. the defining experiences of their family Zionism were the ethnic conflicts in Mandatory Palestine in the 1920s, not the horrors of Europe under the Third Reich. hell, some of them tried to ally with Nazi Germany during the loving Holocaust. and because they emigrated voluntarily rather than as refugees, they were often wealthier, more educated, and better-connected than later waves of Jewish immigrants. Netanyahu's father arrived in Palestine in 1920, and besides being an academic, was also a leading member of the militant right-wing Zionist movement that founded Irgun. as a prolific fundraiser, he often traveled between the US and Palestine soliciting funds and support, and after Israeli independence, he moved to America for a while to raise his sons there

in general, Israel's class structure is still pretty divided by where people came there from and when. as an observer reading about it from afar, here's my impression of the general class structure from top to bottom:

1) people who immigrated to Palestine from the mid 1910s to the late-1920s were well-off enough that they could afford to uproot their entire lives and move to Palestine just on the basis of vague nationalist ambitions. they were often well-educated. they and their descendants formed the core of the Israeli elite classes for a long time after independence

2) American Jews, who were insulated from pretty much all the European chaos of the 20th century, were able to benefit from America's general prosperity, and generally migrated voluntarily for nationalist ideals rather than safety or economic gain. like group #1, they were usually well-off and decently educated. this group also contributed a lot to funding the migration of other groups, and were often involved with Zionism for some time before they migrated

3) pre-WWI migrants. they were typically pretty poor, but they had financial support from early Zionist thinkers and often held socialist ideals which led to the establishment of the kibbutzim. they'd had plenty of time to establish themselves by the time of Israel independence and had largely integrated with groups #1 and #2, thanks in part to shared Zionist ideals and communal settlements

4 or 5) Soviet Jews who came voluntarily were well-educated and not terribly poor, but they weren't especially rich either. however, because they came relatively late in Israel's history (mostly in the 90s) they faced a lot of integration difficulties. Israel, which was prosperous by that time, was somewhat less welcoming to large waves of foreign migrants and less desperate for manpower, and many Soviet Jews found that their education and qualifications weren't recognized by Israeli institutions, leading to heavy underemployment. they were also a lot more secular and a lot less Zionist than the other waves, so they stuck out like a sore thumb in Israeli political and ended up forming their own parties to get some representation. though they're not really interested in the settler projects, they tend to prefer right-leaning politics and a strong security state

4 or 5) European Jews during and after WWII tended to have lost their property and prosperity, but they got a fair amount of support from Israeli and American organizations and from various Holocaust reparations, and arrived early enough to benefit from Israel's initial rise to economic prosperity. their descendants are usually pretty integrated

6) Mizrahi Jews who came from various Middle Eastern and African countries, often involuntarily. they often lost their money and property, and they arrived in a country that was dominated by European Jews, which led to a lot of cultural and political friction. additionally, Israel was already struggling to accomodate and integrate the massive number of poor European Jews who arrived in the wake of WWII; adding Middle Eastern Jews on top of that was too much for the system, and the Mizrahi usually got the short end of the stick. in addition, they faced discrimination and even racial segregation at the hands of the European Ashkenazi Jews who dominated Israeli institutions, and are still heavily economically disadvantaged even today. there's a huge wage gap and openly-expressed racism

7) African Jews, well...just take everything I said about the Mizrahi, multiply it by five, and then set it in the 1990s so the Israeli state doesn't even have the excuse of economic problems and an overburdened refugee system to fall back on. they're Jewish enough for the Law of Return, but face blatant racial discrimination

8) and then of course at the very bottom there's Palestinians and non-Jewish migrant workers, who fulfill the usual "permanent underclass to do low-class manual labor for minimal wages" niche

# ? Oct 24, 2018 03:56

Ramrod Hotshot: May 30, 2003

Dreylad posted:

i wanted to press R to reload his gun

lol

# ? Oct 24, 2018 04:02

Smirking_Serpent: Aug 27, 2009

Business Gorillas posted:

Hey so I'm not reading 78 pages of posts. I'm Jewish and I was talking with a Jewish friend of mine after he brought up how some leftists at a bar were talking about how Israel was bad.

Is there an article giving a summary of how hosed up Israel actually is and how the Israeli right is trying to make anti-zionism anti-Semitism?

Basically, I need "Babbys first Israel Is Bad" to share

not trying to discourage you from talking about this, but there is a dedicated I/P thread that might give you good answers:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3842990

# ? Oct 24, 2018 04:10

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

Smirking_Serpent posted:

not trying to discourage you from talking about this, but there is a dedicated I/P thread that might give you good answers:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3842990

i thought there was but i musta missed it, thanks!

# ? Oct 24, 2018 04:19