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Slandible posted:That does sound fun, but where do you get all those cargo tokens. I've been eyeing these: https://www.etsy.com/listing/539895681/acrylic-ejected-cargo-token but then I'm staring down the rabbit hole of having some acrylic objective tokens and some cardboard. So I'm trying to source locally before we get that far
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Oct 25, 2018 23:05
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Worth noting that acrylic cargos aren't tournament legal, in case you care.
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Oct 25, 2018 23:09
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I do actually, and afaik the only way to get more tokens is from Lando's Millenium Falcon or the Shadow Caster. Which is how I have my current 2 Thanks for the heads up, I'm still fairly new to the game and haven't gone to big boy tournaments just locals so far
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Oct 25, 2018 23:20
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I've got the Mynock Open next weekend and have been experimenting with Scum lists. This one tries to capture the magic of old mindlink by just passing around loads of calculates to whoever needs them that round. IG-88A (70) Elusive (3) Advanced Sensors (8) IG-2000 (2) Guri (62) Outmaneuver (6) Advanced Sensors (8) Unkar Plutt (30) IG-88D (4) Cloaking Device (5) Total: 198 View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0 Alternatively I am considering going full cheese with the Han cargo chute build because boy it sounds fun
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Oct 25, 2018 23:42
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Is the "Second Edition" format as lame as it looks from messing with it in the squad builder? For some reason the next local store tournament decided that's what they're gonna go with.
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Oct 25, 2018 23:58
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Gumdrop Larry posted:Is the "Second Edition" format as lame as it looks from messing with it in the squad builder? For some reason the next local store tournament decided that's what they're gonna go with. It’ll probably be slightly less lame when wave two hits but that’s also dependent on if Rebels/imperials/scum get any “new” repackaged ships. I really hope I can fit Poe and two decent RZA2 A-Wings in a resistance list. Or maybe 3-4 mediocre ones. I dunno.
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Oct 26, 2018 00:08
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That Han/Kavil stuff looks fun so trying it with Torkil to fart on all the aces people are trying to run. Han Solo (54) Trick Shot (1) L3-37 (4) Dengar (6) Rigged Cargo Chute (4) Shield Upgrade (4) Lando’s Millennium Falcon (6) Kavil (42) Trick Shot (1) Dorsal Turret (4) Veteran Turret Gunner (8) R4 Astromech (2) Shield Upgrade (4) Torkil Mux (36) Shield Upgrade (6) Hull Upgrade (5) Moldy Crow (12) Other option I was thinking is dropping all the shield/hull upgrades for Outer Rim shuttle on Han so than he can sit on rocks and still shoot. Or Tobias somewhere to cram more rocks in the middle.
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Oct 26, 2018 00:12
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Using Advanced Sensors prevents defenders from triggering Full Throttle, yes?
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Oct 26, 2018 01:17
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Yes
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Oct 26, 2018 01:21
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What's the timing on L337 crew? Is it right after your opponent rolls, or after rolling and all their mods?
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Oct 26, 2018 01:49
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Like all dice modifications, it occurs at your opportunity to modify dice. The person who rolled the dice modifies last, so you’d get to do it after they roll and before they spend anything.
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Oct 26, 2018 01:53
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Quadjumpers are half of on FFG's site, get 'em before they're nerfed
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Oct 26, 2018 03:02
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I have a problem. I impulse bought my 5th X-wing just because it has cool moving wings.
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Oct 26, 2018 06:09
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ConfusedUs posted:Like all dice modifications, it occurs at your opportunity to modify dice. L337 says "when you defend...." so doesn't that occur after the opponents attack/modification? I guess I am confused to when does "when you defend" actually start. 1. The attacker rolls dice 2. The attacker decides to modify their results with tokens 3. The Defender defends 4. Defender rolls dice 5. Defender uses L33T
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Oct 26, 2018 12:34
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No. You're the defender as soon as the attacker decides who they're attacking; there's an explicit phase for the defender to modify the attack dice, which happens before the attacker modifies them.lazerus06 posted:L337 says "when you defend...." so doesn't that occur after the opponents attack/modification?
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Oct 26, 2018 13:01
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lazerus06 posted:L337 says "when you defend...." so doesn't that occur after the opponents attack/modification? The shorthand is "whoever rolls modifies the dice last" The long form is in the rules, but goes 1. Attacker rolls dice 2. Defender modifies attack dice (l337) 3. Attacker modifies attack dice (focus, boba fett pilot, etc) 4. Defender rolls dice 5. Attacker modifies defense dice (juke) 6. Defender modifies defense dice (evade, focus, etc)
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Oct 26, 2018 13:41
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ConfusedUs posted:The shorthand is "whoever rolls modifies the dice last" Got ya, I had it wrong. Thanks for clarification.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:15
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Kavil and Torkil are sweet, but I'm still not sold on Scum Han. Either everything lines up and you roll a ton of dice, or it's a 2 dice wet fart. Though Dengar/13-37 crew gave me a lot of mileage today, plink back at aces and kill off a good roll of theirs. Still feels like so much left to try in Scum, I need to get a party bus or Lancer going next week I think.
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Oct 27, 2018 05:09
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Slandible posted:Kavil and Torkil are sweet, but I'm still not sold on Scum Han. Either everything lines up and you roll a ton of dice, or it's a 2 dice wet fart. Though Dengar/13-37 crew gave me a lot of mileage today, plink back at aces and kill off a good roll of theirs. Lando/IGD. 2 well modified dice are still very strong and he's still DIRT cheap.
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Oct 27, 2018 09:37
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Slandible posted:Kavil and Torkil are sweet, but I'm still not sold on Scum Han. Either everything lines up and you roll a ton of dice, or it's a 2 dice wet fart. Though Dengar/13-37 crew gave me a lot of mileage today, plink back at aces and kill off a good roll of theirs. I think the most consistent scum Han I've seen is Trick Shot/Jabba/Rigged Cargo/Agile Gunner/Title version with docked Lando Escape Craft. It's pretty rare that it doesn't get extra dice from SOMETHING. Best party bus I've found is either: a) Naked Moralo with Inertial Dampeners. Slow roll up the board edge. If when you get to the fight, dial in a move off the board. If the enemy comes at you, bail. If they don't...don't. b) Trandoshan Slaver with Contraband Cybernetics, Jabba, Lando. Reinforce every round, do red moves every round, even when stressed. If it lives until you run out of Jabba charges, you're probably winning the game anyway. I haven't found a Lancer build I like yet, although Ketsu is still pretty good. She desperately needs coordinated actions or Unkar crew, though, to still get some kind of token if you bump. Which you want to. Asajj with Heightened Perception and Title is...okay. It's nice to shoot first and tractor someone if you hit, but she costs so drat much...
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Oct 27, 2018 20:28
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I really want to like Moralo, but there's a trivial counter to him. Just fly in the middle of the board. He has to engage at some point, and as soon as he's away from the board edge his pilot ability is just moot. It's super disappointing to realise 
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Oct 27, 2018 22:41
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Played in a store event today, went 4-1 and took 4th on MOV (no top cut). I'm...not entirely sure they did the scoring correctly for everyone, but poo poo, I don't care. Placed in my first event for 2e, got metal tokens and some promos, and did it with a list I'd never flown before today. Quad Juke Phantoms are real strong. All four wins I tabled my opponent before time, the game I lost was a crazy Redline/Deathrain/Vermeil list and I screwed up my engage and put a Phantom on a rock I should have known not to go onto. The bomb/torp combo forced me to play way too defensively or risk losing a ship to Redline, and my dice didn't do me any favors that match. The raw damage forced through by multiple Jukes is crazy, and I'm betting it'll go up a point or two when they rebalance.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:35
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The Gate posted:Played in a store event today, went 4-1 and took 4th on MOV (no top cut). I'm...not entirely sure they did the scoring correctly for everyone, but poo poo, I don't care. Placed in my first event for 2e, got metal tokens and some promos, and did it with a list I'd never flown before today. Quad Juke Phantoms are real strong. All four wins I tabled my opponent before time, the game I lost was a crazy Redline/Deathrain/Vermeil list and I screwed up my engage and put a Phantom on a rock I should have known not to go onto. The bomb/torp combo forced me to play way too defensively or risk losing a ship to Redline, and my dice didn't do me any favors that match. If anything goes up, it'll be the Phantom itself (and I could very well see putting it up by a point to prevent quad Jukes). Juke is literally only even GOOD on Phantoms and Defenders, let alone OP.
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Oct 28, 2018 09:23
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thespaceinvader posted:If anything goes up, it'll be the Phantom itself (and I could very well see putting it up by a point to prevent quad Jukes). Uhhhhhhh, no. Juke's probably the strongest EPT in the game currently. It's excellent on Phantoms and Defenders, yes. But it's also fantastic on anything that can evade and get a force point or otherwise still mod dice. Sabine, Soontir, any Imp thing that can get a force crew (Strikers notably), etc. It also gets stronger the more copies of it you have and the more you can focus fire. One Juke is fine, you force the focus spend, and the target doesn't have it for followup shots. Not really a ton better than just normal shooting where they often spend the token pretty quickly. With two Jukes, you almost guarantee an extra damage through, and so on for each additional attacker. I think all tournament yesterday, for example, there were two times where I attacked, rolled a single hit, and the opponent rolled 2 natural evades, making Juke ineffective. Just twice in 5 rounds, where every game ended with either myself or my opponent completely wiped out. Every other round, that mean Juke was pushing through extra damage. It punishes people taking any action that isn't focus/calculate. It's Real Strong.
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Oct 28, 2018 14:37
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Yeah Juke is definitely the best EPT if you can get it to trigger, if only because it's unchanged from first edition, and arguably improved since you can fit it on medium bases that were large in first (brobots). EPT slot in general is fairly weak (which is okay) but Juke is real good, but I don't know if it's so good to boost up to five or six points.
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Oct 28, 2018 15:30
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I think Juke's a Very Cool Card™, which makes me pretty annoyed that it's impossible to make a good Rebel or Scum list with it. (I don't fly Empire)
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Oct 28, 2018 15:31
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The Gate posted:Uhhhhhhh, no. Juke's probably the strongest EPT in the game currently. It's excellent on Phantoms and Defenders, yes. But it's also fantastic on anything that can evade and get a force point or otherwise still mod dice. Sabine, Soontir, any Imp thing that can get a force crew (Strikers notably), etc. It also gets stronger the more copies of it you have and the more you can focus fire. One Juke is fine, you force the focus spend, and the target doesn't have it for followup shots. Not really a ton better than just normal shooting where they often spend the token pretty quickly. With two Jukes, you almost guarantee an extra damage through, and so on for each additional attacker. OK, so like.... 2 or 3 other ships, and you have to pay for Force on what are pretty universally iffy frames (the Striker, the Attack shuttle, and... the Quadjumper?) Woo. Great. It's a good, balanced EPT that is overly strong on certain ships, particularly Phantoms, but also Defenders. The issue I have with it is that it's pretty much an autotake on any phantom or defender. And autotakes just shouldn't exist.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:28
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Nothing iffy about the Striker or Quadjumper my friend
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Oct 28, 2018 17:10
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Improbable Lobster posted:Nothing iffy about the Striker or Quadjumper my friend Iffy to put another 12+ points on to them to get mods +juke, +2 points for debris gambit on the Quad too.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:25
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thespaceinvader posted:OK, so like.... 2 or 3 other ships, and you have to pay for Force on what are pretty universally iffy frames (the Striker, the Attack shuttle, and... the Quadjumper?) Are you serious? The striker is an amazing ship, core of several Sloane swarm variants and Duchess, who is a top-tier Imperial ace. The other two named pilots are also amazing. Sabine with Juke is fantastic, though you sometimes see her with just Debris Gambit for points. Quadjumpers are great, one of the best scum ships, but not as juke carriers. For rebels and scum, you have incredibly cheap coordinate platforms to assist in buffing, which is probably better than force crew anyway. Rebel synergy stuff could probably do mass Juke well, but I don't know how well, and Rebels are generally just overpriced compared to Imps and Scum so it's hard to say how something like that might work until after we see a balance pass.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:30
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I run Jukes on E-wings because having a TL from outside of range, plus an evade on the engagement turn, plus a focus from Jake makes for a fully modified 3-4 dice attack and you can get two of them because Jake is the support ship from hell. I really hope Juke doesn't go up. 
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Oct 28, 2018 17:51
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I never said Strikers were bad, I said strikers with Juke and Fifth Brother are probably not worth the points. I never said Quads were bad, I said Quads with Juke are bad. Juke itself shouldn't go up, the platforms that make best use of it maybe should. I'd prefer to see it change mechanics somehow, though; maybe 'if you are evading but not focusing' or something.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:56
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You called out the Striker directly as an "iffy frame" dude.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:58
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thespaceinvader posted:I never said Strikers were bad, I said strikers with Juke and Fifth Brother are probably not worth the points. So, these frames are all good, but if you put Juke on them and can mod the attack it's too good....but the problem isn't Juke? Hmmm....
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Oct 28, 2018 18:03
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The Gate posted:So, these frames are all good, but if you put Juke on them and can mod the attack it's too good....but the problem isn't Juke? Hmmm.... Wut? Like, that's the opposite of what I said. I said they're bad with Juke and single mods, because it's too expensive. Juke and other mods is powerful, but there are only two chassis which can do it effectively, and it's too good on those chassis, in particular, on the elite generic Phantom, because that's to the best of my knowledge the onyl way to get four 3 die Juke ships in one list. Accordingly, I think the elite generic Phantom should probably go up a point. Not Juke. Juke's fine. Strobe posted:You called out the Striker directly as an "iffy frame" dude. The striker is an OK frame, I've not tested the generics much, but Duchess is pretty great. E: and the Quadjumper is amazing in multiples, but I've had precious little success with it as a single filler. It's very difficult to get it into range to work properly without it just dying. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 18:17
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thespaceinvader posted:I never said Strikers were bad, I said strikers with Juke and Fifth Brother are probably not worth the points. I full stop disagree about this, at least for Duchess. Juke is either real bad or real good, depending on the chassis. If you make it more expensive you increase the real bad segment and reduce the real good one. I think that’s the sign of a bad solution to a perceived problem. In fact, the more I play, the more I realize I do t want to nerf any of the good upgrades or ships. They feel good to fly even when flying against other good stuff. This is mostly imperial stuff. They have a million builds and you can slot different ships and upgrades in as sidegrades all over the place. That’s GREAT. Instead I want to bring down the cost of the bad stuff so it also works that way, too. The choice between an XWing and a Bwing, for example, should be down to preference rather than competitive necessity.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:22
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That absolutely lines up with my opinion about point balancing, for the most part. There are some options that are VERY clearly heavily underpriced and could use raising (particularly scum Han gunner) but I'd mostly prefer to see bad stuff made good, rather than good stuff made bad. It amounts to more or less the same thing but it takes less adjustment to listbuilding if you don't have to completely re-engineer your good lists.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:27
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thespaceinvader posted:
It's really not, for a good ace.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:33
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Yeah. There aren’t many things I think need a significant (more than two) points increase. Scum Han gunner 0-0-0 Maurader title Admiral fuckin Sloane holy poo poo (might still be playable at DOUBLE the cost, might be better balanced with errata to the ability instead of cost changes) Vader crew Trajectory simulator Redline And a few that need a minor tweak (1-2 points) Proton bombs Barrage rockets Maybe proton torps. Maybe. But then there’s a list as long as my arm of stuff I would reduce by a point or two.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:39
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The Gate posted:It's really not, for a good ace. 58 points and a locked action is a lot for IN5 though. You can get Whisper for that. And she's Just Better. (Both, being the obvious answer; Whisper, Duchess and a third Juker would probably be solid, but you can't fit a strong fourth ship in with it, and Duchess is still very fragile.) Speaking of uses for Juke, I do like Vermeil with Juke and Vader. I don't think it's necessarily *good* but it is fun.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:42
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