|
this isn't the edit button
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 20:23 |
|
|
Rinkles posted:found F76's mascot this is not my beautiful pip boy
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 04:26
|
|
|
The previous videos were really good. I think i figured out what bugs me (and others) so much about this game. In previous games, having NPCs and reactive dialogue means that you get to participate and influence the stories of individual NPCs AND the world in general. In FO76, you only have dead people and audio logs, which means you can re-live some sort of story but you can never participate. Your influence on the world is naturally restricted by this being an online game. On the surface, this "only" makes quests more linear. I mean this would not be a necessity, but it turns out that way. HOWEVER, looking deeper, it actually ties into the core of Fallout as an open-world game. You can not really influence the game world, either because it is mechanically not possible (settlements, unkillable/indestructable world and entities, no reactive story or factions), OR because everything already happened before you got there. In addition to possibly being boring, this curtails your "open-world" experience in this game. You have no more agency than in a railroad shooter. You either succeed in that fetch/kill quest, or you don't, but your choices are irrelevant for anyone but yourself. This is open world as much as Half-Life 1 is open world, just with a larger map. This is not what made Fallout3-NV-4 fun, though. The stories were never amazing, the graphics were never amazing, the games were almost bugged and partly cringeworthy. But they were hugely popular, because they were not only open, but also reactive. And if and when the story was good and immersive, that made for some really good gaming. Now, if you go back to the comments by Bethesda, it seems they actually realize this on a deep level. What they say is absolutely correct. You need a player induced "meta" game, as in other mmorpgs, to create reactivity. FO76 quests will NEVER be fun. The world itself will never be engaging. It will never feel like the old Fallout games. It can't. The mechanics will only ever amount to grinding out new levels. They realize this. The roleplaying will occur on the level of player-based meta faction warfare and the like. Of course their choices to make things server-based and non-permanent are wrong then, too. I'd say the only way for FO76 to succeed is to go full force into going Eve-Online. Anything related to FO3-4 will only resemble those games at their worst. So in conclusion, FO76, if it succeeds, will require an entirely different direction, and people who highlight that it is a different game than the previous Fallouts are exactly right. It has to be. Otherwise, it will suck.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 04:57
|
|
|
mormonpartyboat posted:this is not my beautiful pip boy 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 05:01
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:I've, at the very least, not heard from any Xbone beta players running into the Total Game gently caress bugs They turned that around fast! Very un-Bethesda like. This gives me hope! Edit: Rinkles posted:Who's up for some more negative impressions? Why would you even attempt to play Fallout 76 on an original Xbox One 
SwitchbladeKult fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Oct 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 05:03
|
|
|
Saladin Rising posted:Generally they just wait for modders to solve all the bugs instead. Oh gently caress.. I'm just now coming to terms that this isn't going to be able have any unofficial patches. What the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 05:08
|
|
|
caps on caps on caps posted:This is not what made Fallout3-NV-4 fun, though. The stories were never amazing, the graphics were never amazing, the games were almost bugged and partly cringeworthy. But they were hugely popular, because they were not only open, but also reactive. Honest question: What choices can you make that affect the world in base Fallout 4? There's the faction you choose which affects the ending, there's base building that causes NPCs to show up and provide you resources (but don't otherwise affect the narrative), and...?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 05:09
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:Honest question: What choices can you make that affect the world in base Fallout 4? There's the faction you choose which affects the ending, there's base building that causes NPCs to show up and provide you resources (but don't otherwise affect the narrative), and...? You are thinking of large-scale narrative changes only. There are some in FO4. I think you let that main town be taken over by other factions. I mean, you can go and kill every faction leader including your own child the minute you see them the first time. You can do a lot of stuff in the DLCs as well. In Far-Harbor, one of the options is to switch off those fog protectors and let the town get swallowed up, which kills the NPCs and makes the town into a ruin. Look up the quests on a wiki, still a lot depends on when you come in, whom you talk to first and how etc. It may not be FO:NV, but its fundamentally there and consistent. But this was not my point. I don't think these large scale narrative changes are necessary for a good story. But look up the quests and see how each interaction with NPCs shapes, in perception at least, how they exist and interact in the world. I mean, many quests can be solved by violence - that's the obvious example. Other quests and conversations are at the very least reactive to your skills and your choices. The sphere of influence you have includes the simulated lives of those you interact with. In FO76, this is not true. You don't even get to choose how to react to those "alive" humans talking to you by radio. And everyone else is dead. Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Oct 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 05:17
|
|
|
SwitchbladeKult posted:They turned that around fast! Very un-Bethesda like. This gives me hope! Wow, the game isn't completely broken! Very surprising. Maybe it isn't trash!
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
I wonder how long the effects of player launched nukes will stick around. Any speculations?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 05:56
|
|
|
SwitchbladeKult posted:I wonder how long the effects of player launched nukes will stick around. Any speculations? Everything will be nuked after the first day forever.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 06:01
|
|
|
the game is going to be dog poo poo and it will be rated higher then new vegas and will sell ten billion copies
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 06:53
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:Honest question: What choices can you make that affect the world in base Fallout 4? There's the faction you choose which affects the ending, there's base building that causes NPCs to show up and provide you resources (but don't otherwise affect the narrative), and...? At this point were talking about like very, very simple levels of reactivity. Like being able to kill a NPC, which in turn makes the town guards hostile, or try to arrest you. This is you affecting a game world in a basic level. But even something so simple is a level of world interaction that Fallout 76 isn't built for.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 07:04
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:Honest question: What choices can you make that affect the world in base Fallout 4? There's the faction you choose which affects the ending, there's base building that causes NPCs to show up and provide you resources (but don't otherwise affect the narrative), and...? Aside from the somewhat cosmetic things like, the arrival of the Pryddwen and the way the Cambridge Police Station changes as you progress in the Brotherhood quests, stuff like that, you can also kill named NPCs and they are just gone and don't come back, and their quests are gone etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 07:13
|
|
|
Yeah, I was more trying to make a point about 4 than I was 76 (I guess I should have been more specific when I said the base game, as the first response immediately rolled into the DLC) people are mostly hanging on the "you can kill NPCs" thing, which doesn't seem that far to me from caps on caps on caps posted:You either succeed in that fetch/kill quest, or you don't I personally thought Fallout 4 was a massive drop in the quality of player agency / reactivity, taking it from the top with stuff like Black Widow no longer providing additional dialogue options (or additional dialogue options just... not really existing anymore, for any particular combo of Science/Medicine/whatever) and far fewer quests that could go "off the rails" and be talked / lied through. Like, people are talking about 76 being the death of the RPG elements, but everything felt so streamlined, clean, and on rails to me personally I was already this sour on Fallout halfway through 4. It's weird to think "I can't kill NPCs anymore" is the bridge too far--I feel like that bridge got crossed already three years ago. To clarify, I agree it sucks and 76 is making it worse, but it feels like dumping a bucket of piss into a well full of piss, maybe it's just me
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 07:37
|
|
|
Eh while the Fallout 4 dialogue system was a clusterfuck, Fallout 3 and Skyrim never really used their dialogue systems either and Fallout 4 was a big step up on them in terms of agency and multiple paths and poo poo. Like it's no New Vegas but it was the best Bethesda has done since Morrowind in that regard and I liked it more than anything they've done other than Morrowind. When 76 was announced, the idea of Fallout 4 but as a Borderlands style coop thing actually excited me, cause Fallout 4's issues would be alleviated greatly by having someone to play and take the piss out of the worse bits with. When we got more info I was thinking it was more Ark or Conan or a multiplayer Subnautica and hey, that seemed like a fun spinoff to me. But the end result is just like the worst choices they could have made all compounding on each other. And the engine/gameplay is even clunkier and more embarassingly cheap looking than FO4 somehow.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 08:31
|
|
|
SwitchbladeKult posted:Why would you even attempt to play Fallout 76 on an original Xbox One Presumably the vast majority of Xbox Fallout players will.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 08:39
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:Eh while the Fallout 4 dialogue system was a clusterfuck, Fallout 3 and Skyrim never really used their dialogue systems either and Fallout 4 was a big step up on them in terms of agency and multiple paths and poo poo. you can convince a robot in Fallout 3 that you're Thomas Jefferson, completely bypassing an entire quest chain, or if you have Robotics Expert you can just convince him to shut himself off. Just that one perk can get you through like five quests / skip an entire section of some quests. There's like six+ quests that have additional options just for having enough points in Medicine. In Fallout 3. A whole poo poo ton of other skills / perks have unique dialogue options and can totally alter the trajectory of a quest. Your individual character had little to nothing to do with your dialogue options in 4. Even with 1 Charisma, you could save scum through dialogues. Perks like Black Widow improved your chances of succeeding at one of the four options every character is given at any particular prompt. Agency is gone, multiple paths are pretty much neutered. Fallout 4 was a step back in terms of dialogue systems and multiple paths, even from 3.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 08:57
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:you can convince a robot in Fallout 3 that you're Thomas Jefferson, completely bypassing an entire quest chain, or if you have Robotics Expert you can just convince him to shut himself off. Just that one perk can get you through like five quests / skip an entire section of some quests. Honestly I preferred the Fallout 4 approach of multiple paths to do quests independent of dialogue choices. Both would be ideal but Fallout 4 was much better at providing multiple paths through places, giving alternate questlines, factions that kind of poo poo than Fallout 3's occasional "have skill threshold skip quest" buttons. Also our avatars look really funny arguing back and forth.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 09:27
|
|
|
I'm pretty favorable towards Fallout 3's side quest design to be honest. In comparison to Fallout: New Vegas' wealth and depth of sidequests it falters, but on its own terms, it presents a series of well-developed, relatively long side quests that take you all over the map an offer a decent amount of options that often rely on skill and perk checks. Fallout 4 was a huge step back there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 09:45
|
|
|
Bethesda quite clearly want to make a game with super wide appeal and Fallout 4 is a experiment in that direction. Streamlining have this effect; lower the appeal for the core fans and hopefully increase it for the general public.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 09:50
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:Honestly I preferred the Fallout 4 approach A Sometimes Food posted:Fallout 4 was much better at I feel like these are gonna be two big contending thought processes going into this conversation SaGa Frontier is one of my favorite games of all time, but I'll be the first to tell you it kind of blows, objectively How was Fallout 4 better at giving alternate paths, outside the "sneak or shitmurder or lockpick" dichotomy that's also in 3 and NV? You just got done telling me 3 never really used its dialogue system like 4 did, now you're saying 4 was better because its options were independent of dialogue choices also yeah our avatars make this really silly edit: I will grant you the main quest, which people have made straight up flow charts for, but there's side quests in 3 at least that complex Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Oct 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 09:51
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:I feel like these are gonna be two big contending thought processes going into this conversation Oh I completely concede 4's worse when it comes to dialogue options. I meant 4 was better at stuff like alternative endings or paths through questlines. The main quests of the base game, Nuka World and (especially) Far Harbour most notably but also most questlines. It was often a simple binary but better than Beth usually did and sometimes it got quite interesting. In a less overt way Fallout 4 had alternate entrances much more commonly which is less of an RPG thing directly but it was nice that stealthy exploration yielded paths that catered to it much more regularly than before. Like the four different ways to approach Hardware Town in that little paint sidequest. And then the ability to gently caress with Abbott at the end. Like maybe Im misremembering FO3 but I played Skyrim recently and Fallout 4 was leaps snd bounds better.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 11:22
|
|
|
Hey so apparently there is a new fallout 76 game coming out, God am I out of the loop to discover it so late, like 2 weeks before release. I blame this on Fallout 4, I was terribly disappointed by its awful main story and wonkiness back at release. I had got the season pass too so I have all DLC, but it's IIRC 90% about workshop and settlement building which I don't care at all about. I want to replay it to get me in the mood, I still have late-game (I guess?) savegames but I can't remember many details about the story or why should I care about people etc, so I'm guessing a restart from scratch is in order that said, I probably won't replay this for dozens of hours, so should I be beelining the main quest up to Nick Valentine and then go straight to Far Harbor as recommended in the OP? I remember it being a lot better than the base game, and I never completed it because I was burned out on the base game at the time. Are there any recommended mods or overhauls that make Fallout 4 better? I checked the mod thread but 99% of the mods in the OP look kinda boring to me, and I'm not into survival or making the game harder, if anything I want an easy time (by better I mean having more well-thought out quests, more silly interactions and stories, more stuff to loot, more memorable NPCs and locations, new mechanics that are not settlement building, more backstory and lore - I love the terminals and the odd little storytelling coming from them, plus the environmental storytelling)
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 11:54
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:Oh I completely concede 4's worse when it comes to dialogue options. I meant 4 was better at stuff like alternative endings or paths through questlines. The main quests of the base game, Nuka World and (especially) Far Harbour most notably but also most questlines. It was often a simple binary but better than Beth usually did and sometimes it got quite interesting. In a less overt way Fallout 4 had alternate entrances much more commonly which is less of an RPG thing directly but it was nice that stealthy exploration yielded paths that catered to it much more regularly than before. Like the four different ways to approach Hardware Town in that little paint sidequest. oh yeah skyrim blows in regards to all of this, but I do think you are short changing how many alternate entrances to places / ways to approach a particular quest there are in FO3 like, giving you ways to lockpick a side door and sneak through has been core to the whole thing throughout, FO3 actually gets a little nuts with it in places (one of the subquests in the Wasteland Survival Guide chain, you can either break through a 100 door or dive into the water around the ship town and surface where it's broken to find a hidden entrance) FO3 does that pretty consistently AND gives you ways to Speech / perk / skill dialogue your way through stuff, with a lot of individual dialogue / rewards changing based on how you approached it or even just based on your stats--New Vegas does it more frequently, but there's cases where you get specific options or just comments from NPCs about how dumb your character is or whatever. New Vegas in general kind of shitstomps FO3 in regard to quest approaches and dialogue chains, but even FO3 offers more than 4 by doing the same alternate path stuff and dialogue catered to your actual character. My original point was the RPG elements, stuff like individual character impact and agency; people are mad that 76 is pulling the plug, but I feel like that poo poo was on its death bed already in 4. Two people can play FO3 in pretty drastically different ways--not just individual quests (that Wasteland Survival Guide bit I mentioned earlier is loving insane when you start digging), but even in terms of poo poo like how much setting off Megaton can affect the next couple hours of gameplay. On the small OR large scale, everything's a different road. New Vegas, even more so. Me and my roommate played FO4 at the same time, actively tried to do poo poo differently, and the conclusion we both reached is that all the factions kind of suck. Otherwise, we were playing two totally different ways but still winding up in each other's footsteps, and a lot of the big quests sort of funnel you in. Even the plot of the game feels real railroady--they did a real poor job of making me give a poo poo about my missing kid, and a worse job making me want to go chasing them. With skills totally removed from the game, decisions cut to a maximum of four lines on a dial, lazy poo poo like ... the entirety of vertibird behavior, some of the most boring companions and most unenergic side quests from any of the newer Fallouts... like, of loving course 76 is the way it is. People paid full price for 4. People are still lining up to defend 4. Why wouldn't they cut more corners? Why wouldn't they strip that poo poo back further? Game sold just as well with dialogue options cut off at the knees, why bother with dialogue choices at all? I mentioned wanting to avoid the 4 DLC when looking at this stuff (and lol it kept coming back to it anyway), because the same mentality's going to sell all those 76 copies: well, the end game might be better. Well, there's always DLC. Well, maybe they'll enable mods. poo poo's not just now getting killed, poo poo was already dead and everybody already forked over their cash for it. And I know, I know--I just clicked preview, sir this is a McDonald's, etc., but gently caress. People are as mad about 76 as I was (and I guess still kind of am) about FO4.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 12:04
|
|
|
TorakFade posted:
Not really. I just took a dig through Fallout 4’s mod scene for similar reasons and there’s not much that enriches the world building or quests. Most of what I have seen are the usual boob mods, visual effects enhancements and Sim Settlements. Personally, I reinstalled FO4 after reading about all of this to have fun with Sim Settlements, but I don’t think that it’s gonna keep me playing for as long as I thought. There’s a mod that randomized the PC’s voiced lines. Mechanically your choices are unchanged, so it’s kinda funny.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 12:13
|
|
|
So we're just going to overlook that you need hardware from the last three years that costs as much as a game console for each piece, for those graphics and that borderline lack of reactivity. When some of the most popular mods for Bethesda games are 'potato edition' mods. Oh who am I kidding they'll end up with Scrooge McDuck money because nothing matters.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 13:25
|
|
|
I run Witcher 3 on a i5 with a r7260 x fine but Fallout 4 stutters al over the place. There is no way in hell that Fallout needs more power than Witcher
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 13:36
|
|
|
My favorite thing about fallout 4 are those areas where the addition of a single particle effect drops my FOS by 40-50 for no obvious reason, even when the same effect in other places is fine
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 14:08
|
|
|
caps on caps on caps posted:The previous videos were really good. I think i figured out what bugs me (and others) so much about this game. Actually it is just Fallout 4 again but with multiplayer!!!
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 14:26
|
|
|
DoctorGonzo posted:I run Witcher 3 on a i5 with a r7260 x fine but Fallout 4 stutters al over the place. There is no way in hell that Fallout needs more power than Witcher From what I understand, Bethesda games use quite a bit of CPU power on the large number of physics objects the player can fiddle with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 14:30
|
|
|
I only lament from F76 that the devs feel the need to fill every square of the map with content. I think games with large spaces with nothing are better. A possible improvement for F76 would be horses, to help navigate the land faster. But if the ground is fragmented, with mobs attacking you every few metters, then the horses are not that useful. They are useful if you have these swats of nothing. Horses would also help transport big collections of scrap. I guest how you will play is you will find a huge hub of missions and possible loot, and you will create a small camp outside, with crafting stations. And you will travel back and forth from this camp and the missions hub. Thats good, but force you has a player to find a good place to camp, not always will posible.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 15:35
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:found F76's mascot  Early Vault Boy art from the pre-PC-game GURPS Fallout
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 15:47
|
|
|
SwitchbladeKult posted:From what I understand, Bethesda games use quite a bit of CPU power on the large number of physics objects the player can fiddle with. No, it's unoptimized trash.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 15:55
|
|
|
Siljmonster posted:No, it's unoptimized trash. You don't always have to optimize everything Like that example a few pages ago (menus checked for buildiables). Is unoptimized yes, but work ok for the stock game. It somewhat break with mods, but the shipped game was fine. The strategy "optimize everything" leads to early optimization, that is a bigger demon than unoptimized stuff.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 16:01
|
|
|
Looking forward to siftng through trash with my friends.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
A 50S RAYGUN posted:i really want to play rdr2 but yeah between 30 fps, clearing like 100 gbs on my ps4, and console aim it just feels like too much play rad dad redemption instead 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 16:42
|
|
|
Tei posted:You don't always have to optimize everything They should optimize their engine so it can run on modern hardware without crashing to the desktop every 30 minutes due to memory leaks and stop relying on their fans and modders to fix everything because without source code nothing actually gets fixed its just slapping more and more unoptimized trash on top of each other. None of the Bethesda (including FNV) engine games have been ok at launch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 16:49
|
|
|
Siljmonster posted:They should optimize their engine so it can run on modern hardware without crashing to the desktop every 30 minutes due to memory leaks and stop relying on their fans and modders to fix everything because without source code nothing actually gets fixed its just slapping more and more unoptimized trash on top of each other. You are talking about the whole engine, and I am talking about parts of it. The mission of the engine, the faster the better. But how you get there, theres different ways and strategies, and the strategy to "optimize everything" is the most poor possible. Optimized code is harder to read, harder to change, harder to debug, harder to rewrite. Unoptimized code with a naive approach are easier to replace with a better version. Also optimized about what? memory consumation? cpu consumation? There are strategies of optimization that use more memory to save CPU, theres strategies of optimization that uses more CPU to save memory. Before you know what you want to optimize and where you want to optimize, is stupid to optimize. And how much faster you can go? if you are already very fast, it may take a gigantic effort to be a tiny bit faster. The rule of dimishing returns. Sometimes the only way to go forward is to burn the entire house and build a new one. So before you optimize something, you need to look around you, ask people, look at the whole picture, and act smart. People buying pets for a zoo need to save money on the elephants, not on the mouses. If the mouses cost 2$, and you optimize 50% the cost of moses, you pay 1$ for mouse. Great, you save 1$ from your budget. If your elephants cost 100000$ and you get a 10% optimization, you save 1000$ for elephant. Where you optimize can be more important than how much you optimize.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 20:23 |
|
|
Ieeee... euh... sorry. I got somewhat carried away. I am passionate about game engines, I guess  I love you all!.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2018 17:07
|
|