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jivjov, admitting mistakes is an important part of growing as a person. I realize you have the mind of an infant but I don’t think you’re beyond hope.
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Oct 26, 2018 13:56
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jivjov posted:You don't? It's perfectly understandable as long as you aren't such a moron that you see one desert and go "well there can't possibly be two deserts, must be the same desert" (or city, or whatever) We are invited to compare the destruction of the Hosnian system to that of Alderaan in ep 4. The destruction of Alderaan itself is again fairly meaningless, but it is meant to display the threat that the death star carries. The destruction of the Hosnian system by starkiller base gives a similar effect but the starkiller base is destroyed itself almost immediately after so it all amounts to.a bunch of nothing really
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Oct 26, 2018 13:57
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jivjov posted:I've looked. There's no clear, explicit, canonical evidence of Coruscant or Tatooine changing names anywhere in it. I never argued that Tatooine or Coruscant changed names. I only explained that in the movie continuity, Coruscant got blown up in TFA.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:06
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fridge corn posted:We are invited to compare the destruction of the Hosnian system to that of Alderaan in ep 4. The destruction of Alderaan itself is again fairly meaningless, but it is meant to display the threat that the death star carries. The destruction of the Hosnian system by starkiller base gives a similar effect but the starkiller base is destroyed itself almost immediately after so it all amounts to.a bunch of nothing really Even though we see about as much of Alderaan as we do the planet in TFA (in fact we see more of the TFA planet), there's so much difference how each are used in their respective films it's amazing. In A New Hope Alderaan is constantly referred by various different characters, so that by the time it actually appears on screen we know exactly how it relates to all of the major protagonists of the film: A) We know it's Princess Leia's home planet and her father lives there B) We know it's where Luke, Obi-Wan and the droids need to go to deliver the plans to the Death Star. So of course what this means is that when it is destroyed the audience is instantly aware of what that means both on a character level (Princess Leia has lost her home and her father) and on a plot level (Luke now has nowhere to deliver the Death Star plans). In contrast, the planet in TFA is introduced out of nowhere, filled with people we've never met, is never even specifically named and the consequences of it's destruction are never actually seen. It just happens and everyone makes a sad face. It's because of just how weightless it is in the film that most people come to the logical conclusion of what that planet is: It must be Coruscant, not only because it looks like Coruscant and is never specifically not called Coruscant, but because otherwise why should anyone care? Tomtrek fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Oct 26, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 14:19
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We're just gonna keep hitting the wall of Jijov not being able to un derstand that canon and the story group is complete bullshit.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:29
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Tomtrek posted:In contrast, the planet in TFA is introduced out of nowhere, filled with people we've never met, is never even specifically named and the consequences of it's destruction are never actually seen. It just happens and everyone makes a sad face. It's because of just how weightless it is in the film that most people come to the logical conclusion of what that planet is: It must be Coruscant, not only because it looks like Coruscant and is never specifically not called Coruscant, but because otherwise why should anyone care? I was in that camp too where I just assumed it was Coruscant until some time after because of the lack of build up. Like in the movie and we see it's a huge city kind of place so what where else would it be? And I have to be honest it actually did have a little impact because of that since Coruscant is such a major place in the last two bursts of Star Wars stuff (the prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars series) that it did feel like a okay the galaxy is different now kind of moment seeing it in theaters for the first time. Sort of like when Vulcan is destroyed in JJ Trek but there they at least really did go through with it.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:29
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Captain Jesus posted:I never argued that Tatooine or Coruscant changed names. I only explained that in the movie continuity, Coruscant got blown up in TFA. No it didn't.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:41
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As annoying as JivJov's fanatism can be, the constant self-owns and bringing up stuff that undermines what would otherwise be interesting about the ST are pretty funny.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:42
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Having the Galactic Capital change every few years and having just one tiny fleet is so unbelievably stupid my suspenders of disbelief snapped in half.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:58
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MonsieurChoc posted:We're just gonna keep hitting the wall of Jijov not being able to understand that canon and the story group is complete bullshit. It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his enjoyment of godawful novels depends upon his not understanding it.
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Oct 26, 2018 15:07
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Sir Kodiak posted:It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his enjoyment of godawful novels depends upon his not understanding it. "Canon" is a marketing gimmick and people getting really fanatical about it is a sunk cost bias. If it doesn't "matter" then you've wasted your time and money on it. It never seems to be enough to just enjoy the stories; they have to "count" towards something bigger. It's stupid.
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Oct 26, 2018 15:22
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Neo Rasa posted:I was in that camp too where I just assumed it was Coruscant until some time after because of the lack of build up. Like in the movie and we see it's a huge city kind of place so what where else would it be? And I have to be honest it actually did have a little impact because of that since Coruscant is such a major place in the last two bursts of Star Wars stuff (the prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars series) that it did feel like a okay the galaxy is different now kind of moment seeing it in theaters for the first time. Sort of like when Vulcan is destroyed in JJ Trek but there they at least really did go through with it. We can almost certainly assume that the Vulcan effect is exactly what JJ was going for, but Disney chickened out at some point in post. Definitely after they had already completed the effects shots. This is why it sucks we'll never get a true "making of" documentary or book. The intricate details of the weirdness behind TFA's production would be very interesting to read about.
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Oct 26, 2018 15:37
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Wheat Loaf posted:"Canon" is a marketing gimmick and people getting really fanatical about it is a sunk cost bias. If it doesn't "matter" then you've wasted your time and money on it. Interestingly, jivjov is also a huge Nintendo fan and has every amiibo so his brain is provably susistible to marketing
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Oct 26, 2018 15:41
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Also all the chatter about tfa does make me appreciate the last Jedi actually bothering to have distinct visual identity for its planets
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Oct 26, 2018 15:43
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jivjov posted:Anyone who says they're the same planet is factually wrong, and quite possibly deliberately lying (given that I've seen posters that I know for a fact I've told this to before continuing to spout this misinformation) lol "you really think someone would do that? just go on the internet and tell lies about star wars?"
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Oct 26, 2018 15:43
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Oh boy, I'm just so tired of all these Star Wars.MonsieurChoc posted:We're just gonna keep hitting the wall of Jijov not being able to un derstand that canon and the story group is complete bullshit. If this keeps going in circles, maybe it's time to move on.
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Oct 26, 2018 15:47
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:lol I can't understand what he's worried will happen. Like, he put me on ignore for saying that a) more people disliked Last Jedi than liked it and b) Rian Johnson's trilogy will probably be cancelled at some stage, but he didn't do it because I was being really cuntish about it (which I obviously was, because I found his reactions amusing) - I wouldn't be too bothered about that if that was the case, because it's a fair enough reason for ignoring someone - but because I was "spreading lies and misinformation".
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Oct 26, 2018 15:49
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GoldStandardConure posted:to get a non star wars fans idea of what happened, someone who will watch the movies in the cinema and isn't concerned with re-watching them over and over and unconcerned with any of the EU stuff, I asked my step-sister "what planet was blown up by Starkiller Base in The Force Awakens?" I really love this. Mooey Cow posted:I mean, if they had scaled it up to planet size so the DS would have been just a tiny dot, it would have been a lot more effective. Unfortunately, the story group confirms it is indeed just some 600 km, or on the same order as the distance between San Francisco and LA. Maybe planets are just super tiny in Star Wars, it would explain why the Death Star looks so huge at only 150 km. 
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Oct 26, 2018 15:55
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jivjov posted:We are currently discussing the current canon. In the event another continuity reset happens, we can talk about the established facts of that new continuity. I'm certainly choosing to not just discuss the current canon. Are you seriously telling me that I can't make that choice?
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Oct 26, 2018 15:58
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Jedha has roughly the mass of Earth, but is extremely small and dense, because of the abundance of Force tying and binding it.
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Oct 26, 2018 15:59
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I've been posting the new arguments that jivjov asked to hear (SMG too), in good faith, but I think he has me on ignore.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:00
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jivjov is just incapable of discussing this films as if they were just films and not historical documentaries from an alternate universe, interpreted through the visions of a group of oracles named The Story Group; this is why 'the writing and editing in TFA is confusing and made me initially think coruscant got blown up' gets met with 'you fool, you idiot. if you read these half a dozen EU novels you'd know that coruscant and hosnian prime are WILDLY different'
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Oct 26, 2018 16:08
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honestly jivjov's obsession with canon and the story group wouldn't be so bad if they didn't reveal themselves to be such a lovely, pathetic person. you're really into the extended universe stuff? cool, don't be a dick lacking in self-awareness to others who aren't.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:14
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u must unlearn what you have learned
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Oct 26, 2018 16:24
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If somehow the planet we see being blow-up in TFA isn't meant to be Coruscant than the movie is even worse than I thought because everyone I've talked to who's seen it is certain that it is.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:27
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Mooey Cow posted:We can almost certainly assume that the Vulcan effect is exactly what JJ was going for, but Disney chickened out at some point in post. Definitely after they had already completed the effects shots. What makes you say that? Hosnian Prime doesn't have anything in common with Coruscant other than "is a city". There aren't any repeated landmarks, looks different from space, no omnipresent speeder traffic...and there's not ONE SINGLE SOURCE referring to that planet as Coruscant. Even if it was at one point still intended for Coruscant to be the Republic Capital, it was so early on that zero vestige of that idea remained.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:37
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Franchescanado posted:Oh boy, I'm just so tired of all these Star Wars. Please. I beg of you, make it a probate-able offense to make up random poo poo about Star Wars and shut all the idiots up.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:38
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Strange Matter posted:If somehow the planet we see being blow-up in TFA isn't meant to be Coruscant than the movie is even worse than I thought because everyone I've talked to who's seen it is certain that it is. Do they not realise that they have a DUTY to buy and read a young adult novel to understand how wrong they are? 
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Oct 26, 2018 16:41
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Wheat Loaf posted:Do they not realise that they have a DUTY to buy and read a young adult novel to understand how wrong they are?
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Oct 26, 2018 16:47
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Luke, you've turned off your targeting computer. Luke. Luke, that information is canon. Luke, you're going to need that data. Luke, the manufacturer of your ship intended for you to have that information. Luke, you loving idiot. Mods, can we get a probation on Luke?
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Oct 26, 2018 16:51
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jivjov posted:Please. I beg of you, make it a probate-able offense to make up random poo poo about Star Wars and shut all the idiots up. What if it's true in a different Star Wars Reality?
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Oct 26, 2018 16:52
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I don't think it's that crazy for the New Republic to want to move its capital away from a planet associated with a corrupt Old Republic and evil Empire.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:54
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't think it's that crazy for the New Republic to want to move its capital away from a planet associated with a corrupt Old Republic and evil Empire. It's a little crazy to do it apparently four times
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Oct 26, 2018 16:56
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It seems like a good way to antagonize what is presumably the most populous, wealthy, influential, and important planet in the galaxy; perhaps giving the first order 10 trillion instant sympathizers is not such a great move
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Oct 26, 2018 16:56
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I guess the first warning was a little too subtle, so I'll be explicit. I don't know the differences between Hosnian Prime and Coruscant. I don't really care. This derail has gone on for ten pages, and is going nowhere. Stop engaging each other on the subject, move on, or I'll help end the discussion six hours at a time.
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Oct 26, 2018 16:57
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The issue is that Jivjov's even gets the concept of canon wrong: "[Canon is] Film+EU continuity. Anything not in the current version of the films is irrelevant to Film Only continuity." -Leeland Chee, 2006 "[The six Lucas films and the Clone Wars series] are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align." -Lucasfilm, 2014 While everything produced by Disney is equally canon, 'canon' refers to an amalgam of licensed media that is subordinate to the "Film Only continuity", which is the OT and PT. The ST and spinoff films can only ever be a shadow of the original films; they are not 'immovable.' "Another point made was that if the Story Group’s name is on something, that doesn’t 100% make it canon. Sometimes there are Star Wars products that simply can’t be canon. ... However, those are approved by the Story Group now for 'authenticity.'" -Slashfilm, quoting Pablo Hidalgo and Leeland Chee, 2015
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Oct 26, 2018 17:09
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Franchescanado posted:I guess the first warning was a little too subtle, so I'll be explicit. Just let it go, this isnt a derail it's the thread operating normally
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Oct 26, 2018 17:13
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There's nothing else to discuss, disney wars is essentially hollow and only by beating up on a living strawman can we find any succor. If you'd prefer the thread to be a tumbleweed graveyard then go ahead with your plan to ban everyone, and to be fair that may be preferable
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Oct 26, 2018 17:15
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jakkuine
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Oct 26, 2018 17:16
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No Mods No Masters posted:There's nothing else to discuss, disney wars is essentially hollow and only by beating up on a living strawman can we find any succor. If you'd prefer the thread to be a tumbleweed graveyard then go ahead with your plan to ban everyone, and to be fair that may be preferable we could always...y'know...talk about Star Wars as it actually is
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Oct 26, 2018 17:17
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