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Holy Fury really seems to be the be-all and end-all dlc, and hopefully the last one.
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Oct 26, 2018 18:53
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Sky Shadowing posted:I like the elective changes but am wary of Imperial Administration being the only possible succession law for the Byzantines AND Roman Empire. It makes it impossible to go Nomad Khan -> Byzantine Emperor now, since as soon as you finish pushing your claim on the title you'll get settled. I had a lot of fun games as a Nomadic Byzantine Empire.
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Oct 26, 2018 19:03
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SlothfulCobra posted:They're taking so many hard-coded systems and ripping them out and instituting something more versatile and moddable, it's amazing. I still wish they would make a system so that when you have multiple inheriting heirs you could just choose which one you want to mind-hop into upon death, but those duels come pretty close. It’s actually a lot less likely to happen in real life than it is in game, because in real life family trees don’t prune their “unimportant” relatives. If the roof had collapsed during the British royal wedding and killed everyone inside, they’d still have an heir lined up. This isn’t just a modern thing either - the records for noble lineage have always been considered very serious business and meticulously tracked even when someone was like 100th in line for a title. What was more likely to happen in real life wasn’t so much that they couldn’t find a valid successor, but that if they were distant enough some warlord might decide their army gives them a more “legitimate” claim and just declares themselves king regardless of what the official line of succession says. It would be cool if there was a system that caused the realm to fracture into civil war if the top level ruler dies with no valid heir.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:27
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One thing I hope is in CK3 is interregnums, which I imagine the current engine probably can't even handle.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:29
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The new Byzantine/Roman empire government is really interesting. It's a great continuation of the Conclave changes, making vassal management more engaging. It also has some pretty unique features for "feudal" (as opposed to merchant republic/nomad/pagan) system. Being able to hold cities is interesting. It's usually not considered worthwhile, even without penalties. You get enough money through taxes, and castles simply have so much better levies. That said, it might be advantageous to hold some of the cities in Constantinople at game start to jumpstart your economy (by parking the steward there to collect taxes). You get no opinion penalty from vassals with different governments. Your clerical vassals usually are easy enough to manage, and the opinion penalty is not that large. It is a hefty -20 for merchant republics though, so this is a really nice buff for the emperor. You cannot create or usurp empires. This essentially makes you locked to the Byzantine/Roman Empire. You also can't receive kingdoms or empires from characters with a different government. Since your government will always be unique in the world, everybody else will have a different government, meaning you can't even inherit empires. You also cannot usurp kingdoms, which is interesting.That's actually quite a downside until you've formed the Roman Empire, which lets you use imperial reconquest on all those Christians who would have been easier to conquer if you could usurp kingdoms. You also cannot receive kingdoms from characters with a different government, which again should preclude you from inheriting them. Which probably means that you can only get your hands on kingdoms outside your empire if your heir inherits his mother's/father's kingdom first before succeeding you, if the electors will even vote for a foreign monarch. You cannot imprison subject without cause. Similar to merchant republics, which makes dealing with annoying/threatening vassals quite a bit more challenging. This also ties in with the elector preferences, who apparently will generally favor high intrigue characters. This makes the intrigue focus and an intrigue education especially valuable. The latter to make your heirs more likely to be elected, the latter to have an easier way to imprison vassals, to either let them rot in jail, orcastrating/blinding them, taking them out of the succession, etc. I suspect Satanists are uniquely powerful in the Byzantine Empire. The vassal management is also pretty interesting. Appointing Powerful Vassals (i.e. those who get the -40 opinion penalty if they are not on your council) as councilor will now actually cost you electoral power if they are inept idiots. You are balancing between appointing people favorable to you so they don't vote down your wars or law changes, appointing powerful vassals to get them content and prevent them from joining factions, appointing able people to get good bonuses, and avoiding appointing unqualified people to avoid losing voting power. Additionally, commanders and your marshal are valid successors, and electors like competent people. Which means appointing strong generals might just introduce a strong contender to the list of possible successors, so you have to consider this aspect, too. That's really good. Additionally, there's a touch of open elective in here, too, since prestige and titles will also play a big role. I'm really curious how all that will play out.
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Oct 26, 2018 20:55
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I really like that they have these neat unique mechanics for the Byzantine and Holy Roman empires. In the past they always felt like just bigger generic kingdoms rather than incredibly unique political entities and it’s cool to see them get more individual flavour.
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Oct 26, 2018 21:23
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The Roman Empire had quite a few cool things as it was. Imperial reconquest, the Augustus title, born in the purple, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of off hand.
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Oct 26, 2018 21:26
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I always felt like these kinds of options should be more available in crown laws. It still feels like a major accomplishment to unlock and activate absolute cognatic succession, or imperial government type, but there's very little flavor once you get there. Shaping not only a country, but the way it functions is definitely one of the coolest parts of the game.
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Oct 26, 2018 21:38
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Volkerball posted:The Roman Empire had quite a few cool things as it was. Imperial reconquest, the Augustus title, born in the purple, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of off hand. The Imperial reconquest is a kinda naff reward considering the fact that by the time you form Rome, you're probably almost completely unassailablely strong
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Oct 26, 2018 21:43
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DISCO KING posted:I always felt like these kinds of options should be more available in crown laws. It still feels like a major accomplishment to unlock and activate absolute cognatic succession, or imperial government type, but there's very little flavor once you get there. Shaping not only a country, but the way it functions is definitely one of the coolest parts of the game. Yeah having them as full systems you can access which are just enabled by default on those specific titles would be cool, although it’s one of those things where it’s hard to decide how exactly you should be able to activate them. They’re meant to represent very specific systems that were the result of centuries of history and development, so it would be weird if it’s just like, you automatically get access to it all by hitting imperial administration or whatever. Getting that unlock is an accomplishment, but “literally succeeding/surpassing the Roman Empire” is beyond even that. The nice thing is because it’s all exposed in moddable scripts, it can easily be made to apply to other systems.
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Oct 26, 2018 21:46
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Sydin posted:That said Roman Empire is going to be second game. First is going to be African blob. Yea I'm in the same boat. My African Enatic succession empire is my first game. Maybe I'll post it on Reddit and see how fast I get banned for trolling /not being in lockstep with their lovely beliefs.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:19
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I know I'm hitting up the Baltics/Eastern European region for my first game with Holy Fury. Been meaning to play there for a while, and with the revamped pagan and conversion stuff, now's the perfect time.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:31
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I am hella PEEVED posted:Yea I'm in the same boat. My African Enatic succession empire is my first game. Maybe I'll post it on Reddit and see how fast I get banned for trolling /not being in lockstep with their lovely beliefs. That's not really how Reddit works, each subreddit has a different community and most of them aren't /r/the_donald, even if the whole place does have an all-pervasive aura of lovely white male nerdiness. /r/crusaderkings in particular gets very memey but would probably enjoy your African Enatic empire!
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Oct 26, 2018 22:32
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DISCO KING posted:I always felt like these kinds of options should be more available in crown laws. It still feels like a major accomplishment to unlock and activate absolute cognatic succession, or imperial government type, but there's very little flavor once you get there. Shaping not only a country, but the way it functions is definitely one of the coolest parts of the game. There's kind of a weird lack of fluff for your demesne that you rule directly. No laws for it, laws only effect vassals and family, just a couple jobs for your chancelors, buildings, the occasional spring fair, and a smattering of random events, most of which have lapsed into inactivity somehow or another. I'm not sure what laws you could give people. Most of the ones I know of are various taxes. There's been periods where the building of various castles has been illegal, but that'd probably conflict with mechanical rewards. ninjahedgehog posted:One thing I hope is in CK3 is interregnums, which I imagine the current engine probably can't even handle. There's a lot of cool things in the medieval period that would be really awkward and uncomfortable fit into the game because since it would basically be an uncontrollable game over if the player's in the wrong place.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:44
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I like the described electoral system for the roman/byzantine empires, but I'm less thrilled that one is absolutely locked into it if they hold the title. I guess I should just think of it like being locked into the merchant republic succession for those, though. I also wonder, if appointing sub-par commanders drops your voting power (permanently, apparently, so be careful with your clicks), whether you can safely leave commander slots vacant instead. I am hella PEEVED posted:Yea I'm in the same boat. My African Enatic succession empire is my first game. Maybe I'll post it on Reddit and see how fast I get banned for trolling /not being in lockstep with their lovely beliefs. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Oct 26, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2018 23:39
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Imperial succession sounds like it would be perfect for the various Islamic blobs as well
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Oct 27, 2018 00:00
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I'm playing a Byz game and have the ability to create a bunch of kingdoms inside the empire. Is there any advantage to doing this? I always never bothered because I never knew what effect it would have and I'm usually just cruising along anyways but now I'm wondering if there might be a reason to create them.
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Oct 27, 2018 02:22
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Huskalator posted:I'm playing a Byz game and have the ability to create a bunch of kingdoms inside the empire. Is there any advantage to doing this? I always never bothered because I never knew what effect it would have and I'm usually just cruising along anyways but now I'm wondering if there might be a reason to create them. It can be helpful for managing your vassal limit. In my experience, the sort of nice thing about having vassal kings is that they're usually too busy fighting each other to give me much trouble.
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Oct 27, 2018 02:34
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Yeah, vassal kings and viceroys are good to have once you reach a certain size. You also gain prestige for every title you or a vassal holds.
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Oct 27, 2018 02:35
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don't remember the exact mechanics of it, but if you have vassal kings then grant them each a single county somewhere near your capital then you can raise their entire army from that county(?) not sure how it works, cuz it's kinda cheesedick, but people who play at the empire level always bring that one up personally, being a king in an empire is way more fun
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Oct 27, 2018 02:41
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Ok cool, sounds like it's pretty benign. I've done things in CK2 that have wrecked ironman games that I still don't understand so I'm always wary of doing new things with titles.
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Oct 27, 2018 02:49
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Huskalator posted:I'm playing a Byz game and have the ability to create a bunch of kingdoms inside the empire. Is there any advantage to doing this? I always never bothered because I never knew what effect it would have and I'm usually just cruising along anyways but now I'm wondering if there might be a reason to create them. If you give the kingdom to someone else, then you can give them control over the Duke vassals inside that kingdom. That way, you still control the territory, but only have to deal with one vassal instead of a whole handful of dukes. It makes things easier to deal with in a kingdom, since it's usually easier to placate a couple of kings than a dozen dukes. It also helps with you deal with vassal limits and other various mechanics. jfood posted:don't remember the exact mechanics of it, but if you have vassal kings then grant them each a single county somewhere near your capital then you can raise their entire army from that county(?) When you raise a vassal's troops, their entire liege levy appears in one county, regardless of how widely their territory is spread. If you raise their levies via the military tab, then they'll appear in the vassal's capital - but if you click directly on one of the vassal's counties and use the button there to raise their troops, their entire army will appear in that county. This works for any county that vassal controls, no matter how far it is from their capital.
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Oct 27, 2018 03:46
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Just make sure your still significantly more powerful then your Kings before you create them. Otherwise you'll have independence wars every death in Italy or wherever.
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Oct 27, 2018 03:51
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In making lovely alliance news: I'm stuck in an alliance with the king of Bavaria, and he keeps calling stupid loving wars that go on FOREVER so I, as a Norseman, have not been able to raid or hold a Blot for twelve years so far  . I have a dungeon full of ding dongs waiting to get sacrificed!! They're piling up!!I had to console command kill the sister I married to that guy, so at least when this current war is over he'll never call me again + I won't have to take an opinion malus for alliance-breaking. And at least I can keep conquering towards the holy sites to reform the faith in the mean time...
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Oct 27, 2018 04:21
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Gaius Marius posted:Just make sure your still significantly more powerful then your Kings before you create them. Otherwise you'll have independence wars every death in Italy or wherever. Outlawing wars within your realm is important too, because a big risk when you give a vassal a lot of power is that they can use that to get MORE power. You'll still have to keep an eye on them since the AI is pretty good at setting up inheritance shenanigans but you definitely don't want them conquering territory within your realm.
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Oct 27, 2018 04:57
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big dyke energy posted:In making lovely alliance news: I'm stuck in an alliance with the king of Bavaria, and he keeps calling stupid loving wars that go on FOREVER so I, as a Norseman, have not been able to raid or hold a Blot for twelve years so far
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Oct 27, 2018 05:17
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Outlawing wars within your realm is important too, because a big risk when you give a vassal a lot of power is that they can use that to get MORE power. You'll still have to keep an eye on them since the AI is pretty good at setting up inheritance shenanigans but you definitely don't want them conquering territory within your realm. In general I try not to grant kingdoms until I have at least two of them to hand out so that I can set up a rival kings situation and have them forever going to war with each other for two or three counties. It's the same as managing dukes, you've just got to be more careful because a rogue king can gently caress you right up if you let them amass power.
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Oct 27, 2018 05:20
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i'm having a wild game in ATE with house latimer of tuskegee so for those of you who haven't played the mod, it's ck2 in post-apoc north america. the holy columbian confederacy is basically the byzantine empire but in the southeastern united states, centered around the evangelical religion and the patriarch bishop in atlanta. there are two de jure kingdoms, carolina (the states of north and south carolina) and dixieland (pretty much georgia and alabama) duke huey latimer, duke of tuskegee (titular) and black march (landed) starts the game from his seat in montgomery. houses latimer, gee, and backus are powerful dukes who control much of de jure dixieland. they have the tuskegan culture, basically african americans, where the rest of the HCC is split between dixie and southron culture, both of the south anglo group. so independence wars against the weak HCC emperor at game start tend to result in the western half of the empire breaking away and fragmenting which is what i accomplished by 2670, the independent duchy of tuskegee/black march/birmingham. (the game starts in the year 2666). i was able to foment discord in the kingdom and push an easily won independence war which broke half the empire away. from there i was able to rapidly snowball and formed the independent cultural kingdom of tuskegee on june 19, 2676. when i play i like to pick a special day appropriate to my kingdom - the occultists of the northeast get october 31, when i play the banker kings of manhattan i choose april 15, and for the kingdom of tuskegee i chose june 19 anyway, king huey ironside had a long and productive life. he unified much of de jure dixieland, formed the kingdom of magnolia (mississippi) and ascended to be the abbot of the order of st. luke. he was a man who had collected all seven virtues and feared nothing, engaging in his last battle at the age of 65 before his third bout with cancer finally forced him to stay at home it was not war or disease which claimed him, but sin. his beloved wife charlotte died of her own cancer, and king huey married a young woman not to bear him further heirs, but to help manage his realm. she was herself an old soul, and quickly became lovers with her new husband. at the age of 72 king huey decided on the night of celebration, june 19, to engage once again in the carnal passions he had forsaken for so many years - a decision which ended his life (for real, i got the "old king fucks to death" event on my chosen holiday) huey's son, the long patient heir to the realm omar latimer ascended to the throne. a just man of good virtue, he had been a reliable soldier and administrator of the duchy of birmingham, and waited in his father's shadow for his turn to leave his mark on history. omar's zealous and humble nature lead him to follow in his father's path and join the order of st. luke, and his first task was to show penance and isolate himself from the world to meditate on the nature of sin. after a full year and a half cloistered within his castle, he ordered a feast of celebration to be held in reverence of god almighty. sin would be his downfall as well at the feast, omar's first public act since ascending to the throne not even two years prior, he drank his first goblet of wine in many months - and fell to the ground, gasping for breath. whether it was divine judgement or an assassin's brew will never be known, but the unfortunate omar met his end without being able to display his many talents to the world (he was murdered, but the assassination was flawless - i have some STRONG suspicions about who ordered the hit) young malik, omar's eldest son, took the throne at the tender age of 17. however, he was far from unprepared - he was renowned for his intellectual powers, with some calling him an unprecedented genius. his intelligence and understanding of the world was almost supernatural, quickly absorbing lessons from his tutors and in short time returning insights to them so profound that it made some weep (seriously, this dude's stats are absurd - his lowest is martial, at 16, and his highest is learning, at 31 - literally the highest score of any living character). malik's brother andre was a man of lesser, but more focused talents - only one year younger, his ability to scheme and deceive were the material of frightened whispers in the court. fortunately, the two brothers were bonded from a happy childhood and seemed to work and think in unison (my king's brother is his Friend and this guy's stats are pretty ok but his intrigue score is 25. i am definitely ok with one of these two dudes jumping the gun on succession) shortly after taking the throne, king malik saw opportunities to his southwest. beyond the stubborn marcher duke of greater natches lay the realm of louisiane, where the voodoo house of creaux long ruled as a counterweight to the catholic lords of the great plains. however, house creaux had fallen on dark times - the realm was split between four sisters, none of whom were fit to rule such a mighty realm, and the eldest suffering from fits of spitting rage and demonic posession. malik struck swiftly, first claiming the fabled city of nouvelle orleans from its money loving burgher rulers, then using the crescent city as a scythe to sever the powerful duchy of l'acadien from the very heart of the creole kingdom as king malik planned his next offensive against the crumbling realm of louisiane, he was presented with fortunate news from the east - the holy columbian emperor had been deposed! malik had waited for this day, as the final step in his control over the kingdom of dixie was to take the duchy of peachtree and the holy city of atlanta with claims he had inherited from his mother, the daughter of the late duke julius gee. but the HCC and the kingdom of tuskegee had long existed in an unstable truce, with both powerful realms hungry but unable to absorb the other due to a rough parity in strength. while kings huey and malik had pushed southwest into heathen lands, the emperors of the HCC had pushed northeast, into virginia and the holy city of washington, the crumbled realm of the americanist cultists who worshiped old statues of the ancient gods washington, jefferson, and lincoln. washington was an ancient and sacred place, and it was taken along with the surrounding duchies by the HCC in a series of wars. for some strange and unknown reason, while the statue praying cultists swore fealty to the HCC, the emperor had made the unfathomable decision to leave these realms in the hands of heathens. (really, i have no idea why or how this happened, since normally the method of conquest would be holy wars). to further compound the mistake, the lord of baltimore was able to press claims and unify the kingdom of columbia for himself - and then successfully pressed a factional demand to take the imperial crown! the shameful emperor had passed the empire of god into heathen hands! at this news, king malik trembled with impatience. to his west, the broken voodoo kingdom lay in pieces, ready to be devoured by the circling wolves of tuskegee, comancheria, and the ozarks, with the choicest prizes going to whoever could raise their banners the quickest. to his east, the holy columbian confederacy had profaned itself and the sacred city of atlanta - long a trophy outside of the house of latimer's grasp - cried out to be freed from the rule of a weak, distant heathen. to his south, the empire of the caribbean had exploded into anarchy and the swamp lands of south florida erupted into warfare between evangelicals seeking protection from their brutal piratical and americanist neighbors. to his north, the realms of tenesi were unified and vulnerable under the leadership of the bedridden king in his endless slumber. and at the young age of 24, every direction malik gazed proved to hold endless riches (all this crazy bullshit happened in the last two years of game time and i have a superking and just i wish i could fight five wars at once it's all too much) Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 05:34
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So with the new model, if the Duchy of Bohemia is held by a vassal of the King of Bohemia, who gets to be an elector? The King or his vassal? I'm actually a bit curious, historically why were those particular titles enshrined as the Electors of the HRE? Was it just a case of them being the most powerful at the time?
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Oct 27, 2018 08:34
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MinistryofLard posted:So with the new model, if the Duchy of Bohemia is held by a vassal of the King of Bohemia, who gets to be an elector? The King or his vassal? I'm pretty sure it will still be the duke of Bohemia. Even now, dukes under vassal kings can still vote independent of their liege. And yes, it was basically a collection of the most powerful rulers within the empire at the time when the electors were codified. The archbishops were really powerful at that time, holding huge tracts of land. The list of electors was updated over the centuries, and iirc there were nine instead of seven electors at the end. But the additional electors were once again powerful rulers in their own right who were made prince-electors in order to keep them content. Edit: By the way, only Eldership and strong claim duels are part of the DLC, the rest are free with the base game. It doesn't matter to me since I will buy HF anyway, but I really appreciate the constant base game upgrades. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 08:52
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Tried my hand at a custom Visigothic ruler in the Umayyad Caliphate in the Charlemagne start date, using CK2+ as the only mod. I'm currently a duke holding several ducal titles and enough land to theoretically form the Kingdom of Navarre but apparently the Carolingian Empire's laws prevent me from creating the Kingdom title.  I'd like to see the Karlings implode in violence but my previous overlords might come knocking at my door again.
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Oct 27, 2018 09:31
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Torrannor posted:Edit: By the way, only Eldership and strong claim duels are part of the DLC, the rest are free with the base game. It doesn't matter to me since I will buy HF anyway, but I really appreciate the constant base game upgrades. This and the new crusade mechanics being part of the patch is great. The ability to leave your current person and take over the new crusader kingdom will really help me breathe life into games that have already been “won” and would have made the DLC a must buy. The patch alone is going to be a great update never mind he make your own religion mechanics.
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Oct 27, 2018 14:42
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This new imperial government, with a few tweaks I think they could actually put China in the game with it.
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Oct 27, 2018 14:43
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Torrannor posted:I'm pretty sure it will still be the duke of Bohemia. Even now, dukes under vassal kings can still vote independent of their liege. This is kind of why I wish that electors weren't just fixed to specific titles, but rather special honorary titles that could be given out by the emperor, and are inherited instead of blanked out when the current holder dies. There could be a lot of interesting diplomatic stuff in controlling who the electors are - have it default to the historical holders in starts where the HRE already exists but if you play a game where you form the HRE, be able to hand it out yourself (with opinion penalties for not handing them all out, and further temporary opinion penalties if you revoke one, similar to revoking a title without cause).
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Oct 27, 2018 18:26
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As much as I get the "scale and scope" argument for not expanding the map, a 500-1500ish game with all of Africa and Eurasia would kick a lot of rear end. There are plenty of natural barriers to keep things from getting too weird, like the Sahara or Tibet. How big was the old Imperator game?
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Oct 27, 2018 19:25
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The old 'Imperator' was Europa Univeralis: Rome and its map was about the size of CK2's original map.
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Oct 27, 2018 19:37
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The Cheshire Cat posted:This is kind of why I wish that electors weren't just fixed to specific titles, but rather special honorary titles that could be given out by the emperor, and are inherited instead of blanked out when the current holder dies. There could be a lot of interesting diplomatic stuff in controlling who the electors are - have it default to the historical holders in starts where the HRE already exists but if you play a game where you form the HRE, be able to hand it out yourself (with opinion penalties for not handing them all out, and further temporary opinion penalties if you revoke one, similar to revoking a title without cause).
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Oct 28, 2018 00:00
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The thing I hate most about this game is that somehow when I play it I go into a weird trance. I don't know if it's not engaging enough, or too engaging, but I spent the better part of today finally reforming the Roman Empire (which from the save I was working from, netted to conquering 3 counties, a barony, and then farming up 3k prestige in wars with vassals and a quick subjugation of the massive reformed slavic wendish empire, but in between infamy, viceroyalty micormanagement, a regency, and my machine probably not allowing as fast of a fast forward as I need, it took a while), and when I turned off the game it was like coming out of a coma. It's like I was asleep while playing, my bodily processes just stopped. I didn't get hungry despite not eating, and I didn't need to go to the bathroom. If the sun didn't just abruptly disappear, I wouldn't have known time passed. It's really weird.
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Oct 29, 2018 02:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:The thing I hate most about this game is that somehow when I play it I go into a weird trance. I don't know if it's not engaging enough, or too engaging, but I spent the better part of today finally reforming the Roman Empire (which from the save I was working from, netted to conquering 3 counties, a barony, and then farming up 3k prestige in wars with vassals and a quick subjugation of the massive reformed slavic wendish empire, but in between infamy, viceroyalty micormanagement, a regency, and my machine probably not allowing as fast of a fast forward as I need, it took a while), and when I turned off the game it was like coming out of a coma. I think you may have an actual problem. You should probably talk to a doctor about that.
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Oct 29, 2018 06:36
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SlothfulCobra posted:The thing I hate most about this game is that somehow when I play it I go into a weird trance. I don't know if it's not engaging enough, or too engaging, but I spent the better part of today finally reforming the Roman Empire (which from the save I was working from, netted to conquering 3 counties, a barony, and then farming up 3k prestige in wars with vassals and a quick subjugation of the massive reformed slavic wendish empire, but in between infamy, viceroyalty micormanagement, a regency, and my machine probably not allowing as fast of a fast forward as I need, it took a while), and when I turned off the game it was like coming out of a coma. Sounds like me when I play Transport Tycoon Deluxe (or OpenTTD nowadays I guess)
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Oct 29, 2018 08:27
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