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Did Grey just lose the equivalent of a carrier’s flight group? In two strikes against flak? Yikes.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:33
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BurningStone posted:Did Grey just lose the equivalent of a carrier’s flight group? In two strikes against flak? Yikes. I can't believe I'm saying this about a late war Japanese air group, but... It's okay, he has more.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:14
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I'm surprised that nobody thought to shoot shells or torpedoes at each other that close. Or that the IJN's surface escorts did not banzai into the US carrier fleet after getting so close to each other.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:37
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Congrats with the engagement. Think it's possible you might get antoher strike in on the Battleship or not before it can get out of range?
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Oct 24, 2018 01:00
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Saint Celestine posted:Aren't you not supposed to run like 10 carriers in a single TF? There is a base chance (influenced by leaders, weather, experience, etc.) of a carrier-launched air strike to become "uncoordinated", which will cause the strike to come in as penny packets rather than as a single force. This chance for uncoordination is doubled if there are too many planes within the same hex. The calculation is [200 + random(200)] planes in the same hex, so if you have 200 planes (say, 3 full carrier decks?) within the same hex, you're going to avoid the "double uncoordination chance" entirely, and you can probably risk it with as many as 300 planes, since that would be the average of the random roll. The alternative is to operate carriers from multiple TFs in multiple hexes: if you have 600 planes spread out across eight carriers, then you can run maybe three different carrier TFs. Of course, there's also other factors to consider: do you have enough escorts for three TFs? Do you have enough good TF commanders for three TFs? Do you reconsolidate once the number of planes has been cut down? Do your carriers operate at close-enough speeds? And so on.
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Oct 24, 2018 04:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:There is a base chance (influenced by leaders, weather, experience, etc.) of a carrier-launched air strike to become "uncoordinated", which will cause the strike to come in as penny packets rather than as a single force. To add to this, the number of aircraft in a hex causing "uncoordination" also varies depending on the side you're playing and year, to simulate Japanese experience at running large carrier groups. Playing as Allies you can't just cram all your carriers into one TF from the start of the game and expect everything to go smoothly. The limits are: Allied TF in 1942 and the number of aircraft in the TF is greater than 100 + rnd (100). Allied TF in 1943 and the number of aircraft in the TF is greater than 150 + rnd (150). Allied TF in 1944 or later or a Japanese TF at any time and the number of aircraft in the TF is greater than 200 + rnd (200).
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Oct 24, 2018 05:40
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   They flee before me.  We slam a torpedo into the Mobile.  This is a poor showing!   More plane losses, but we hit another light cruiser!  That seems optimistic!
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Oct 24, 2018 18:26
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calm down, 1944 japan
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Oct 24, 2018 18:42
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Japan sank Wisconsin. Lake Michigan is bigger. Nothing of value is lost
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Oct 24, 2018 22:20
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mercenarynuker posted:Japan sank Wisconsin. Lake Michigan is bigger. Nothing of value is lost Worlds supply of orange cheeses.
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Oct 24, 2018 23:25
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24 October 1944 A rare late-war US carrier loss: Princeton, hit by land-based dive bombers, succumbs to out-of-control fires. The light cruiser Birmingham, alongside for firefighting support, suffered extensive topside damage when the torpedo room blew up. Today is also the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, when US carrier aircraft swarming over Kurita's Center Force sink his second flagship Musashi. Also sunk is the destroyer Wakaba.
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Oct 25, 2018 00:33
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Not bad for a couple days. One sunk American carrier, one (probably) heavily damaged Battleship, one damaged Cruiser. Is it worth it to try and swing down towards Wake to see if you can do something or evacuate the planes/assets from there?
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Oct 25, 2018 02:57
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   Keep on blowing them up!   There is another attack at Wake.  Time to restock the carriers!  Again, optimistic in my opinion.
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Oct 25, 2018 18:16
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So, not the worst series of air battles! You sunk a CVE, have a goo dprobability of having sunk a CV, and damaged a Battleship and a Light Cruiser badly enough they'll be in dry dock for awhile. Lost a lot of planes.. But those are replacable, for now. Good luck! Is it worth it to divide up all your carriers to two separate groups with escorts so you don't have stacking issues? Or so that you can respond to different areas the Americans are going into?
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Oct 25, 2018 23:54
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25 October 1944 Everything happens today. Sadly, I don't have time to do the whole Leyte Gulf complex justice, so you'll just be getting brief reports. Surigao Strait The day kicks off early as Nishimura's Southern Force, centered on the elderly battleships Yamashiro and Fuso (of ridiculous pagoda mast fame), drives north up Surigao Strait in the wee hours of the night aiming at Leyte Gulf and the American amphibious force stationed there. In his path lay a multi-layered ambush beginning with PT boats and escalating through destroyers and cruisers up to Jesse Oldendorf's veteran battlewagons. Fuso ate a spread of torpedoes, fell out of line, and sank; Yamashiro plowed on into the teeth of the battleships' guns before being overwhelmed. The destroyers Michishio, Yamagumo, and Asagumo were sunk in the battle of the light forces, while the heavy cruiser Mogami, damaged by gunfire and a collision, limped back out of the strait to be hit again by aircraft and finally scuttled. Samar After retreating under aerial bombardment yesterday, Kurita turned his Center Force around and resumed course through the San Bernardino Strait to enter Leyte Gulf from the north. Halsey's carriers and fast battleships having been drawn off to the north, Center Force entered the gulf opposed only by jeep carriers and their screens. Conspicuous gallantry was the order of the day as destroyers and destroyer escorts charged headlong into one of the most powerful surface striking forces assembled during the war. Destroyers Johnston and Hoel and destroyer escort Samuel B. Roberts were sunk by overwhelming fire, but by vigorous action induced Center Force to turn away just enough to buy time for the escort carriers to escape—only Gambier Bay is sunk in this action despite a 10+ knot speed advantage to the pursuers. Aircraft from the escort carriers meanwhile swarmed over their opponents. Although their supply of appropriate anti-ship weaponry was slender, nevertheless enough struck home to destroy the heavy cruisers Chikuma and Chokai. Divine Wind Within hours, waves of dedicated suicide aircraft attack the same set of escort carriers, sinking St. Lo and damaging others. Cape Engaño Far to the north, Ozawa's Northern Force of carriers, largely empty of aircraft thanks to shortages of airframes and qualified pilots, had successfully pulled Halsey away from the vulnerable 'phibs. Halsey got some small measure of revenge by devastating the decoy force, sinking carriers Chitose, Chiyoda, Zuiho, and Pearl Harbor veteran Zuikaku as well as destroyer Hatsuyuki. Retreat The survivors were further harried by US submarines. Halibut torpedoed destroyer Akizuki and Jallao torpedoed cruiser Tama. Rest of the World Escort destroyer HMCS Skeena runs aground in a gale at Reykjavik and was unable to be salvaged due to weather. German torpedo boat TA-31 (ex-Italian Dardo) is irreparably damaged by bombing at Genoa.
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Oct 26, 2018 00:39
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Grey Hunter posted:
Eniwetok hungers.
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Oct 26, 2018 01:21
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IIRC, Chokai is believed to have been sunk by the 5" guns of CVE White Plains when the latter scored a hit on the former's torpedo launchers.
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Oct 26, 2018 01:49
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Welp, it sounds like there was not too much left of the Japanese fleet after these 2 days.
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Oct 26, 2018 08:00
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I thought Chokai wasn't so much sunk by White Plains as it was crippled by the unholy union of 5" guns and torpedo storages. at least initially. wether it died of its wounds or someone/something else put it out of its misery is a bit more unclear to me.
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Oct 26, 2018 08:05
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Chokai was, ultimately, scuttled by torpedoes from the destroyer Fujinami, which rescued the survivors before being itself lost with all hands (spoilers!). Chokai's fate seems to have been sealed by a combination of gunfire (the White Plains golden BB) and air attack, but neither was the coup de grâce.
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Oct 26, 2018 14:02
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  It's a dull day, so here is something to look at – Wake holds out.  It's like everyone took the day off!
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Oct 26, 2018 18:08
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Uh huh. Tomorrow's post is going to be about getting the mangled remains of the Kido Butai back to a friendly port, isn't it.
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Oct 26, 2018 18:10
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Jonny Nox posted:Uh huh. Aren't all the carriers fine? They just need to replenish airgroups?
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Oct 26, 2018 19:15
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Saint Celestine posted:Aren't all the carriers fine? They just need to replenish airgroups? Lmfao if you believe the IJN press reports in the emperor's year of 1944
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Oct 26, 2018 19:30
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Lmfao if you believe the IJN press reports in the emperor's year of 1944 Grey, I’ve found you a volunteer for the Wake reinforcements.
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Oct 26, 2018 19:37
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Lmfao if you believe the IJN press reports in the emperor's year of 
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Oct 26, 2018 20:47
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 Was just about to make that correction.
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Oct 26, 2018 22:48
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Oct 26, 2018 22:50
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26 October 1944 Mostly clean-up and ancillary actions after Leyte Gulf. Japanese losses: DD Nowaki, vicinity of Luzon, destroyer action CL Noshiro, Batban Island, air attack CL Kinu, Masbate, air attack CL Abukuma, Los Negros, air attack DD Uranami, vicinity of Iloilo, air attack DD Hayashimo, Mindoro, stranding and air attack Oh, also the Allies lost a ship: the Norwegian corvette Rose, in the middle of the North Atlantic, after colliding with HMS Manners (irony).
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Oct 26, 2018 23:12
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:26 October 1944 I hope they but a huge gap between the H and M on the HMS Manners.
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Oct 27, 2018 03:11
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Battle off Samar was truly an incredible battle. I recommend people read about it. Even the Wikipedia synopsis is a great read.
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Oct 27, 2018 03:41
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How the gently caress did Halsey keep his position after that? Ignore that he got pulled off by a feint, he literally refused to turn around and aid Taffy 3 while they were dying.
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Oct 27, 2018 09:07
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As far as I can determine, Halsey got and kept his position because he was great at looking like he was doing something. Not something necessarily useful or relevant, mind, but something. Which, back then with an American public clamoring for action and the vastly limited information access compared to now, he looked good. poo poo like his idiocy in this battle, or Halsey's Typhoon, probably never really made the papers. Really, very little of the actions he commanded have ever seemed like particularly big tactical or strategic successes on his part, he just happened to be there and expressing lots of energy.
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Oct 27, 2018 15:13
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Grey, what's the ETA on the Chungking forces reaching India?
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Oct 27, 2018 15:20
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Halsey had earned a ton of goodwill after taking over for the feckless Ghormley during the Guadalcanal campaign. His aggressiveness was what was needed at that time, both for operational and PR reasons. The rest kind of flowed from there. Not only was he not sacked, he earned his fifth start in December of 1945.
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Oct 27, 2018 16:10
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If you read Tully's (one of the Shattered Sword authors) book on Surigao, he makes it absolutely clear that Halsey had his flaws but the Japanese plan (if executed perfectly) was so dumb that nobody would take it seriously.
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Oct 27, 2018 16:40
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At this point Japanese naval planning consisted of sailing forward and kinda shooting at the americans, maybe something hits after we sacrifice five destroyers, who knows.
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Oct 27, 2018 17:07
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Mans posted:At this point Japanese naval planning consisted of sailing forward and kinda shooting at the americans, maybe something hits after we sacrifice five destroyers, who knows. The mahanian critical force meets defense in depth. That the Japanese got as far as they did shows how correct Mahan was for his time.
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Oct 27, 2018 18:02
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Also when someone in the navy tried to officially call Halsey out for his failures, Nimitz came rushing in with a vengeance to shut them up because: right or wrong, all you will accomplish is lowering the prestige of the navy in the eyes of the people back home and the politicians in control of military funding.
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Oct 27, 2018 18:09
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  We continue to lay down some hurt.  Take that you solitary plane!  At least there is more to say than yesterday!  Looks like there were a few recon kills on both sides as well. That and normal combat report inaccuracies. 
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Oct 27, 2018 18:15
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