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Artistic value? Dragon's dead, statue's tripled in value after that. Rich people love dead artists.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:35
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My HM group would have sold shares in the statue's estimated post-recovery value to raise capital to get it out of there. Far more shares than should have existed. Then they'd have run away with the cash they made. Leaving behind a whole kingdom that has no useful amount of coin left but does have a giant gold-and-jewels dragon statue that they can't get out of its hole. Instead of coins, they now buy things with finely engraved certificates showing part ownership of said statue. The PCs are credited with the invention of paper money, but don't find out about it until the rumors catch up with them and they get a fame bump without the corresponding honor increase and it fucks them up.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:02
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I have no experience with HM 4e, but I've played a few games with 5e. Overall I like the system, but it has some warts that I'm not a huge fan of, such as "realistic" elements that aren't realistic at all, including being 100% unable to even attempt to swim in anything heavier than light armor.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:17
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AlphaDog posted:My HM group would have sold shares in the statue's estimated post-recovery value to raise capital to get it out of there. 
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Oct 28, 2018 00:22
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KODT has a lot of good bits but man the whole sequence with the evil Lorraine Williams expie taking over the TSR expie and pushing for a new edition containing the full shopping list of D&D4 complaints is a real uncomfortable read.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:22
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sexpig by night posted:you probably have a better idea than 'hook up a poo poo load of ropes and heavy horses to it after we blast a hole in the roof' but minus points for no sense of style. That is more in keeping with the KODT. Brian absolutely would come up with an intricate pulley system and possibly develop C4 using in-game materials.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:37
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Roadie posted:the next instance of wacko poo poo like pixie-fairy cannibalism. I never did find anybody who wanted to play Fairy Meat.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:48
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It's too bad that Fantasy Craft never really gained any traction instead of Pathfinder. It's been my favorite d20 style game to run.
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Oct 28, 2018 01:03
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8one6 posted:It's too bad that Fantasy Craft never really gained any traction instead of Pathfinder. It's been my favorite d20 style game to run. It's really not surprising. FantasyCraft was the product of a bunch of unplayable poo poo from the Character Optimization community, instead of being an actual game created by people who actually care about playing D&D or whatever.
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Oct 28, 2018 01:12
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Arivia posted:It's really not surprising. FantasyCraft was the product of a bunch of unplayable poo poo from the Character Optimization community, instead of being an actual game created by people who actually care about playing D&D or whatever. Aren't you the one who tries to defend 3e Forgotten Realms?
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Oct 28, 2018 01:37
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8one6 posted:It's too bad that Fantasy Craft never really gained any traction instead of Pathfinder. It's been my favorite d20 style game to run. FC never gained any traction because they literally still haven't finished some of the stuff the original core book said was "coming soon". No randos want to play a game that's blatantly incomplete like that. Edit: Especially when it's a 3.x derivative and the missing stuff is the spellcasting. Roadie fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 02:20
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Roadie posted:FC never gained any traction because they literally still haven't finished some of the stuff the original core book said was "coming soon". No randos want to play a game that's blatantly incomplete like that. This is the actual reason Fantasycraft has never gained any traction instead of whatever dumb poo poo Arivia is on about this month. Crafty Games publishes like one book a decade if that, they've talked up all kinds of "coming soon" stuff that never comes soon, and the simple fact of the matter is that without something resembling regular, ongoing supplement support RPGs tend to slide off the radar regardless of the base game's quality.
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Oct 28, 2018 03:20
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I'd like to throw it out there that FantasyCraft is a complete game. It's true that they never delivered their spellcasting splatbook, but that's not required for play, and the spellcasting classes in the core book are feature-complete. That FC never really caught on is probably more an issue with its high level of crunch and system mastery, and the fact that it was published in a sea of other d20 derivatives.
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Oct 28, 2018 03:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'd like to throw it out there that FantasyCraft is a complete game. It's true that they never delivered their spellcasting splatbook, but that's not required for play, and the spellcasting classes in the core book are feature-complete. It launched the same week as Pathfinder I believe. Yikes. What bad luck.
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Oct 28, 2018 06:47
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Kai Tave posted:This is the actual reason Fantasycraft has never gained any traction instead of whatever dumb poo poo Arivia is on about this month. Crafty Games publishes like one book a decade if that, they've talked up all kinds of "coming soon" stuff that never comes soon, and the simple fact of the matter is that without something resembling regular, ongoing supplement support RPGs tend to slide off the radar regardless of the base game's quality. Fantasycraft is a good game.
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Oct 28, 2018 06:57
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Terrible Opinions posted:Arivia is on the same dumb poo poo she always is, claiming that engaging with mechanics is bad. Engaging with mechanics is great. We all play RPGs to engage with mechanics, or we’d be better off playing freeform all the time. What is bad is the character optimization community that spun up around 3e in particular, an absurd cargo cult of incredible sophistry and self-egotism. Their game, FantasyCraft, suffers from their problems of poor thinking and is bad for all of that.
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Oct 28, 2018 07:12
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Someday Spellbound is going to actually loving come out and I will finally, FINALLY be able to F&F it.  And run my possibly insensitive Spellbound campaign where the college aged PCs smash their spaceship by drunken accident into a random planet and have to scavenge for items so they can repair their ship.
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Oct 28, 2018 10:38
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NachtSieger posted:Someday Spellbound is going to actually loving come out and I will finally, FINALLY be able to F&F it. 
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Oct 28, 2018 12:14
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8 have no idea what this is, please explain this to me in the form of d20 shovelware
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Oct 28, 2018 12:40
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NachtSieger posted:8 have no idea what this is, please explain this to me in the form of d20 shovelware Megadrive/Genesis roguelike with that exact plot. And a very good soundtrack. There's a reboot coming out soon!
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Oct 28, 2018 12:51
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Arivia posted:Engaging with mechanics is great. We all play RPGs to engage with mechanics, or we’d be better off playing freeform all the time.
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Oct 28, 2018 15:28
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Terrible Opinions posted:You're wrong and your continued obsessive hatred of the optimization community as some ultimate evil in the rpg community is creepy as poo poo. It’s disagreeing with one of the dominant discourses in RPG discussion, that’s all. Of course Zak or Mearls or Pundit is worse ethically, but that’s a separate discussion.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:15
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Kai Tave posted:This is the actual reason Fantasycraft has never gained any traction instead of whatever dumb poo poo Arivia is on about this month. Crafty Games publishes like one book a decade if that, they've talked up all kinds of "coming soon" stuff that never comes soon, and the simple fact of the matter is that without something resembling regular, ongoing supplement support RPGs tend to slide off the radar regardless of the base game's quality. Agreed on the release "schedule" killing interest, but another part is that most RPG books honestly aren't ever used at the table. For example, Paizo has published a respectably sized adventure every month for over 10 years! To play all of them, you'd have to have a regular group meet four times a month, every month for over 10 years. No breaks, no oneshots, nothing. That's not counting the splatbooks they've released either. And that's just one company. So, most books are sold on the promise of being fun or interesting to read. It's why published adventures have pages of backstory that the players are never going to learn. It's not for using at the table; it's to be read and enjoyed as it's own work. FantasyCraft, though, just plain isn't fun to read in the same way that IKEA instructions aren't fun to read. It's dry as hell, and anyone who sees it in a store and curiously picks it up is going to get a massive tome talking about huge feat chains and ability synergy. Even the campaign setting section is a flavorless wasteland consisting of a conglomeration of rules from across multiple pages. So, while it's a really good game if you're looking for a meaty D&D-like, you're gonna have to really work to get there.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:20
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Terrible Opinions posted:You're wrong and your continued obsessive hatred of the optimization community as some ultimate evil in the rpg community is creepy as poo poo.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:25
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I hope that game's creators win their lawsuit. gently caress Stardock.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:38
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Arivia posted:It's really not surprising. FantasyCraft was the product of a bunch of unplayable poo poo from the Character Optimization community, instead of being an actual game created by people who actually care about playing D&D or whatever. Have you ever said to yourself "You know what? I like / dislike this game, but it's not worth picking a nasty fight over?" If not, maybe you should start? I've played Fantasy Craft for over three campaigns from three different GMs, with a bunch of players who've never even peeked at the online charop community. It's fine.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:48
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Have you ever said to yourself "You know what? I like / dislike this game, but it's not worth picking a nasty fight over?" If not, maybe you should start? I've played Fantasy Craft for over three campaigns from three different GMs, with a bunch of players who've never even peeked at the online charop community. I don't see what the problem is with discussing games on the Something Awful Discussion Forums. Of course we can have good campaigns of it, that doesn't mean it's not a bad game. I have plenty of fun in good Pathfinder campaigns, but I'm sure you'd agree that's not a well-designed game.
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Oct 28, 2018 16:59
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Arivia posted:I don't see what the problem is with discussing games on the Something Awful Discussion Forums. Of course we can have good campaigns of it, that doesn't mean it's not a bad game. I have plenty of fun in good Pathfinder campaigns, but I'm sure you'd agree that's not a well-designed game. No, but I can see the appeal of it; the amount of material available (official and unofficial) dwarfs nearly any other game, the constant publication and discussion keeps it novel, it has appeal in trying to Lego together a character out of disparate supplements, it has the general long-term appeal and commitment D&D has. I think the core mechanics were poorly considered, it's painfully derivative while discarding many of the innovations of its forbear, and it has some issues with regressive old fantasy tropes which are hard to remove because they're at the core of the game, but I'd agree that's not where the appeal is. And I don't think I've ever called it "unplayable garbage", because it's not. I mean, if I did call it "unplayable garbage", I think we'd both agree I'd already made up my mind and there would be no discussion to be had. But you can feel free to correct me. As you've mentioned, I just don't understand d20.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:11
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Yeah, my play group has played a tremendous amount of Pathfinder solely on the strength of having well supported start to finish campaigns. While we don't think that Pathfinder is a great game in all respects, it has so much support for adults with jobs who just can't make time to scratch build a huge campaign.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:35
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Terrible Opinions posted:I hope that game's creators win their lawsuit. gently caress Stardock.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:38
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Capfalcon posted:FantasyCraft, though, just plain isn't fun to read in the same way that IKEA instructions aren't fun to read. It's dry as hell, and anyone who sees it in a store and curiously picks it up is going to get a massive tome talking about huge feat chains and ability synergy. Even the campaign setting section is a flavorless wasteland consisting of a conglomeration of rules from across multiple pages. How the gently caress isn't the FC book a blast to read? The mechanics are fun as poo poo to read about and use in play.
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Oct 28, 2018 17:43
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NachtSieger posted:How the gently caress isn't the FC book a blast to read? The mechanics are fun as poo poo to read about and use in play. I have never played FC but, at this point in my life, the very idea of digging into another 3.x system just is the exact opposite of fun no matter how good it is. Whether or not the system itself is amazingly wonderful it sounds like just another 3.x game whose fans will often lavish it with praise because of some sort of perceived underappreciation.
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Oct 28, 2018 18:31
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Why is Fantasycraft even being discussed? I really like it, but it is ultimately just another forgotten little rpg that faded away. Glad I didn't pre-order Spellbound though, I almost did because I was enjoying FC so much at the time.
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Oct 28, 2018 19:09
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NachtSieger posted:How the gently caress isn't the FC book a blast to read? The mechanics are fun as poo poo to read about and use in play. That's kinda my point. It gives you fun things to do in the game, and it's very good at clearly telling you how they work. But it's just such a dry read, because it's efficient with it's language.
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Oct 28, 2018 20:09
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NachtSieger posted:How the gently caress isn't the FC book a blast to read? The mechanics are fun as poo poo to read about and use in play. ...it's fun to flip pages four different times to understand any given passage of rules text? I understand what they were going for - a unified framework that scaled solidly - but that means that you basically need a hyperlinked document to understand anything.
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Oct 28, 2018 20:34
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Capfalcon posted:That's kinda my point. It gives you fun things to do in the game, and it's very good at clearly telling you how they work. But it's just such a dry read, because it's efficient with it's language. The FC book was basically the next step in the evolution of TTG books as technical documents (which they are, contrary to Arivia's assertions otherwise) . ----------------
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Oct 28, 2018 23:34
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Glazius posted:...it's fun to flip pages four different times to understand any given passage of rules text? I understand what they were going for - a unified framework that scaled solidly - but that means that you basically need a hyperlinked document to understand anything. This is tangential but I'm still angry that pretty much no RPGs use hyperlinks in their official PDFs whenever it'd make sense to link back to relevant rules.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:37
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Nuns with Guns posted:This is tangential but I'm still angry that pretty much no RPGs use hyperlinks in their official PDFs whenever it'd make sense to link back to relevant rules. This right here is a colossal pain in the rear end. Especially when most times the PDF isn't something that you got when you bought the physical book but is the product itself.
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Oct 29, 2018 00:01
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Nuns with Guns posted:This is tangential but I'm still angry that pretty much no RPGs use hyperlinks in their official PDFs whenever it'd make sense to link back to relevant rules. If they had a marketable skill like 'able to properly create a hyperlinked document' they'd be doing something profitable like web design and not trying to sell elf books.
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Oct 29, 2018 00:19
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Capfalcon posted:That's kinda my point. It gives you fun things to do in the game, and it's very good at clearly telling you how they work. But it's just such a dry read, because it's efficient with it's language. Yeah, this is a big thing: If you enjoy looking at rule interactions and how to make neat mechanical combos, the books are great. But I'll agree that the writing is dry, and worse, it's all written in such a way to specifically tell you that you're not allowed to have too much fun with each of these abilities. The Crafty designers were trying to build a toolkit for a living campaign for both of their major lines at that time (Spycraft, Fantasycraft), so they went through and wrote everything assuming that they'd want to cap abilities off in very specific ways so as to reign in the worst of the charops nonsense. They didn't take into account that people would eventually figure out how to mess with the math, but it typically was based on bad assumptions rather than playing up to charop people. Spycraft 2.0's Scientist class says hello.
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Oct 29, 2018 00:26
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