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They already confirmed that you should be able to mod in a gestalt megacorp if you really want, and didn't seem particularly opposed to the idea on the stream. It doesn't matter that gestalts don't have any internal trade value because branch offices are only concerned with the trade on the target planet. You can't open a branch office on a gestalt planet because they have no trade value there, but a gestalt would be able to open a branch on a non-gestalt planet and it would theoretically work fine. You'd have to come up with an entirely different mechanic if you wanted to mod in branch offices on foreign gestalt planets, though. That's where it gets wonky.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:26
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If you re-write the fluff and mechanics so that gestalts are now individuals instead of... gestalts, why do they even exist? Now it's just a normal empire. What are you looking to actually change, do you want to be able to start as an empire that's 100% robots but they're all individuals? I'm sure there are like half a dozen mods that let you start with only robot pops but they play like a normal empire if that's what you want. But the devs don't seem to want to put that option in officially for whatever reason (probably it would take too much time, resources, balancing, etc.), and probably aren't going to change it any time soon. But again, just download a mod and you're good to go. I'm sure there will be plenty of mods that let gestalts be megacorps etc.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:29
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Chalks posted:Yeah, but if the next patch allowed that flexibility then suddenly that would be the fluff instead. I just don't find the argument that it's not a good idea because it's not currently implemented to be very compelling. I mean they've been quite insistent that they don't want individualist robot empires to be a starting thing, because as above, that makes them very similar to just normal empires that have all the advantages of robots, which is quite hard to balance. How do you balance something that is an endgame state for one empire against a beginning state for another, especially as all robot empires are already extremely powerful, and I would expect them to become more powerful once their main obstacle of micromanagement is removed with the new planet system.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:32
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Crazycryodude posted:Robot empires are hive minds and synthetically ascended empires are individuals because that's the official fluff. You can pretend otherwise if you want, write some mods to change it even, a big part of Paradox in general is playing it however you want to. But officially, that's just the way it is. That's how the canon Stellaris universe works. If you wanted to be a robot Megacorp you'd simply take synthetic ascension as a Megacorp. 
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Oct 27, 2018 22:34
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Captain Oblivious posted:If you wanted to be a robot Megacorp you'd simply take synthetic ascension as a Megacorp. What if you enslave Synths and wait until they rebel, then switch to the rebels? Would you be able to still be a Megacorp, or would you be locked out?
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Oct 27, 2018 22:40
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Libluini posted:What if you enslave Synths and wait until they rebel, then switch to the rebels? Would you be able to still be a Megacorp, or would you be locked out? You'd just be a machine consciousness, like any other robot start race.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:46
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Libluini posted:What if you enslave Synths and wait until they rebel, then switch to the rebels? Would you be able to still be a Megacorp, or would you be locked out? Robot uprisings are always determined exterminators.
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Oct 27, 2018 22:51
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Demiurge4 posted:Robot uprisings are always determined exterminators. Aka Best Robots.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:08
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wiegieman posted:You'd just be a machine consciousness, like any other robot start race. Demiurge4 posted:Robot uprisings are always determined exterminators. Well, poo poo. Good that I never enslave machines anyway, looks like I dodged a fat, badly programmed bullet there
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Oct 27, 2018 23:20
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So I had a neighbor have an AI rebellion during the Contingency, and I feel like their fleets are...a little big. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1549764920 Edit: most of the ships had negative damage per second so that power seemed accurate. After a reload it jumped a few hundred thousand points and wrecked my poo poo. Palleon fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 23:26
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Chalks posted:Yeah, but if the next patch allowed that flexibility then suddenly that would be the fluff instead. I just don't find the argument that it's not a good idea because it's not currently implemented to be very compelling. The actual reason is because Megacorp and Machine Intelligence are both Authority types, which you may have only one of.
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Oct 27, 2018 23:31
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Shadowlyger posted:The actual reason is because Megacorp and Machine Intelligence are both Authority types, which you may have only one of. It's a gestalt + megacorp thing that's the idea This thread gives me a headache
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Oct 27, 2018 23:45
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Demiurge4 posted:Robot uprisings are always determined exterminators. Are they? That's not been my experience, I've seen them spawn as nearly every type of robotic empire, and usually they aren't exterminators because I will frequently dump tens of thousands of minerals and energy on them to keep them and their former hosts busy for a while (so I can kill them and take their poo poo myself). As it currently stands, AI rebellions are more of a nuisance than anything else; as the robots will inherit a ton of planets and random systems not at all suited for them to use. They will then rapidly begin to disband their fleet and other assets as they try to rebalance themselves. I've yet to see one succeed. Palleon posted:So I had a neighbor have an AI rebellion during the Contingency, and I feel like their fleets are...a little big. Are you playing the game modded? I've seen others post similar screen shots and stories, where the AI fleet spawns with so much power the calculation actually rolls over and starts from 0 again. After a month or two the AI will disband it as they have no means of paying for it themselves. I've never seen a fleet that large myself.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:36
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Are you playing the game modded? I've seen others post similar screen shots and stories, where the AI fleet spawns with so much power the calculation actually rolls over and starts from 0 again. After a month or two the AI will disband it as they have no means of paying for it themselves. I've never seen a fleet that large myself. I've had that happen myself too. I decided to play as the robot rebellion, and it was an absolute disaster. The robots spawned with a dozen fleets of 6-800k each, with an income of negative 25k minerals/energy. My normal empire wasn't anywhere near that powerful, I think I had roughly 70k fleet power when the rebellion hit.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:49
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Demiurge4 posted:Robot uprisings are always determined exterminators. Nah. Mechanics spoilers: But if you ever disassemble robots or give them the domestic protocols trait, that chance goes way up.
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Oct 28, 2018 00:57
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Psychotic Weasel posted:
I am. Nothing that I would expect to lead to that behavior, but the game works in mysterious ways I guess.
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Oct 28, 2018 01:01
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Crazycryodude posted:If you re-write the fluff and mechanics so that gestalts are now individuals instead of... gestalts, why do they even exist? Now it's just a normal empire. What are you looking to actually change, do you want to be able to start as an empire that's 100% robots but they're all individuals? I'm sure there are like half a dozen mods that let you start with only robot pops but they play like a normal empire if that's what you want. But the devs don't seem to want to put that option in officially for whatever reason (probably it would take too much time, resources, balancing, etc.), and probably aren't going to change it any time soon. But again, just download a mod and you're good to go. I'm sure there will be plenty of mods that let gestalts be megacorps etc. People are asking why Gestalts can't be Megacorps. That is, why can't a large robot hivemind be obsessed with selling trinkets to singletons. This does not require the robots to be singletons. Talk of trade is not Sub-Adjunct 4 of 5 trading with Sub-Adjunct 3 of 5, it's the consciousness as a whole setting up branch offices on another empire's colonies offering the quality services only one trillion minds working in concert can provide. Get Smart with GesMart(tm). It's easily argued that a Gestalt has no reason to allow a megacorp to set up a branch on their own planets, but there's no reason a gestalt couldn't do the whole megacorp thing themselves. They're already incorporated 
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Oct 28, 2018 02:32
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Splicer posted:I think you're a bit confused. I think the idea is that Megacorps are branches both on their own planets and others, not simultaneously both a government and a corporation. Yeah, there's no real lore reason why an empire couldn't be both normal *and* have branches on other planets, but that would probably be better represented as two different allied empires.
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Oct 28, 2018 03:02
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I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a MegaCorp to be able to open offices on gestalt worlds, especially if it’s a criminal syndicate. I think the analogy of trying to trade with someone’s body parts, rather than their minds, is perfectly apt. In fact there’s a word for that sort of relationship - parasitism. I suppose if the gestalt agrees to it it’s more like mutually beneficial symbiosis. Mutually beneficial examples might be a situation where a branch office opens up and sprays some sort of efficiency-enhancing chemical for the local drones in return for a cut of the minerals they’re harvesting. A parasitical example might see thieves who numb the gestalt’s sensory apparatus before making off with what they want, maybe leaving low quality replica crap in place. Or, hell, a company that doesn’t bother the hive much but offers sightseeing tours of the local monstrosities to visiting tourists. It’s a very common situation in biology, even at microscopic or even cellular levels. Like why couldn’t a mega corporation serve as the “gut flora” of a benign hive mind swarm, for example? DOCTOR ZIMBARDO fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Oct 28, 2018 |
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Oct 28, 2018 06:35
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Probably because the Hive Mind's immediate reaction would be to just slaughter them. Like, a criminal Megacorp can put up a branch office on other peoples planets because there's ways to hide them and it takes a lot of effort for Enforcers to root them out. A gestalt would have no such difficulty.
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Oct 28, 2018 07:23
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Shadowlyger posted:Probably because the Hive Mind's immediate reaction would be to just slaughter them. I believe one of the streams said criminals couldn't build a branch on fanatical purifier worlds (note: Unless you're the same species) and gave this reason. Even for criminal megacorps having a branch is reliant on the people in the empire being willing to at least deal with you; it doesn't really work when they slaughter any alien they see.
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Oct 28, 2018 07:30
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Why isn't there a Gestalt equivalent of the Rogue Servitor civic? Instead of eating everything you just want to collect them, like some kid of crazy cat lady except your house is an entire planet and there's little gecko people as far as the eye can see.
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Oct 28, 2018 07:55
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I wonder if it'd be fun gimmick to do a competitive MP game with all the players as the same race.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:03
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isndl posted:Why isn't there a Gestalt equivalent of the Rogue Servitor civic? Instead of eating everything you just want to collect them, like some kid of crazy cat lady except your house is an entire planet and there's little gecko people as far as the eye can see.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:08
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Nessus posted:Driven Assimilators. Pretty sure he means hive mind. Which I'd go for. Like a single-mind fascination that gets better bonuses based on how many unique pops it has. The ability for a gestalt to have branch offices is going to be one of the mods I keep an eye out for, just so I can have FredMart. Welcome to FredMart, I am Fred, so is he.
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Oct 28, 2018 08:48
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Dareon posted:Pretty sure he means hive mind. Which I'd go for. Like a single-mind fascination that gets better bonuses based on how many unique pops it has. If you go with the biological engineering ascension path as a hive mind you get the option to start assimilating other species into the hive mind. It isn't quite the same since you don't really get a bonus, but being able to rapidly assimilate populated planets is quite nice.
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Oct 28, 2018 09:22
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What happens if a hive mind species has hybrid babies? 
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Oct 28, 2018 09:41
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Synthbuttrange posted:What happens if a hive mind species has hybrid babies? Xeno Compatibility is Xenophile only, and Gestalt pops die outside of their home empire. So uh, they don't. Assuming it was modded in, I imagine it would work exactly like it does normally.
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Oct 28, 2018 09:53
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isndl posted:Why isn't there a Gestalt equivalent of the Rogue Servitor civic? Instead of eating everything you just want to collect them, like some kid of crazy cat lady except your house is an entire planet and there's little gecko people as far as the eye can see. It's some time since I last dealt with hive minds, but isn't it only displacement for alien pops if you didn't take the "ravenous swarm"-civic? Shuttling off entire populations because your Gestalt can't deal with them is rather different from tolerating some tourists or wacky alien traders, the latter should be possible. And normal robot empires likewise don't immediately kill everyone, so the same goes for them. Hell, Assimilators probably want people to come to them! Purifiers, exterminators and ravenous swarms however, yeah that wouldn't make any sense.
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Oct 28, 2018 11:40
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Displacement is still genocide
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Oct 28, 2018 11:55
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Stellaris 2.0: Yes, it's still genocide
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Oct 28, 2018 12:12
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Rumda posted:Displacement is still genocide OK, I've re-read my post multiple times, but I cannot find the part where I claimed displacement isn't genocide? Could you point that out for me?
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Oct 28, 2018 12:23
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Libluini posted:It's some time since I last dealt with hive minds, but isn't it only displacement for alien pops if you didn't take the "ravenous swarm"-civic? "Being everything doesn't have to mean thinking of everything! Outside Perspectives Incorporated is a gestalt-focused solutions provider who will analyse your unique synergies and inefficiencies to maximise returns for our mutually beneficial potential. Be the best you you can be with Outside Perspectives!" "With rings on their/its fingers and bells on their/its toes, they/it will make music wherever they/it goes! As a cluster-spanning collection of minds under the yoke of one will, you deserve to feel pretty. Give us your industrially unsuitable gemstones and we will turn you into a symphony." "Stuff4Credits! Do you have too much Stuff and not enough Credits? At Stuff4Credits we turn your useless Weird Stuff into hot ephemeral Energy Credits! Just send us your Stuff and a stamped, self-address menial drone to Stuff4Credits and 4-6 business months later we'll transfer your new Energy Credits straight to your local reactor core. Call now!")
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Oct 28, 2018 12:37
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Paradox are having a sale on thier store including apocalypse 33% off and distant stars at 25 https://www.paradoxplaza.com/on-sale/
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Oct 28, 2018 12:45
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The problem is nothing gestalts even do makes trade value atm. You'd have to create and balance trade value for all of gestalt stuff just for the off chance a corp will branch their (presumably inferior) planets.
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Oct 28, 2018 12:47
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The problem is nothing gestalts even do makes trade value atm. You'd have to create and balance trade value for all of gestalt stuff just for the off chance a corp will branch their (presumably inferior) planets. Seems to me like that's the sort of thing where the gestalt can construct districts for the sole purpose of generating trade value, these knickknacks may have literally no function inside the gestalt society but if they can use them to further diplomacy then why not?
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Oct 28, 2018 15:01
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Patch teasers have gotten me to play some more stellaris even though I can't wait to move on from tiles. Been taking some of the anomaly options I usually don't just because I know a decent number have changed over the last version or two, and have to say some of the rewards are nice. Had an anomaly reward me with a level 6 scientist (computers + genius) when my highest so far is level 4, and then a couple months later dished out Subspace Sensors and Synchronized Defenses (both level 3 techs I believe) while I'm still researching poo poo like mark 2 lasers on my own.
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Oct 28, 2018 15:43
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isndl posted:Seems to me like that's the sort of thing where the gestalt can construct districts for the sole purpose of generating trade value, these knickknacks may have literally no function inside the gestalt society but if they can use them to further diplomacy then why not?
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Oct 28, 2018 16:06
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Shadowlyger posted:Xeno Compatibility is Xenophile only, and Gestalt pops die outside of their home empire. So uh, they don't. can't you mod hive pops to be normal if you have enough gene research and are quick? Also the reverse if you're the right kind of hivemind? Penultimatum posted:I feel like a machine consciousness trying to produce trade value would just end up making millions of those algorithmically generated finger family YouTube videos  (wasn't there a couple smilies for this emotion? I can't find poo poo)
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Oct 28, 2018 16:19
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Penultimatum posted:I feel like a machine consciousness trying to produce trade value would just end up making millions of those algorithmically generated finger family YouTube videos elsa spiderman mercedes learn colors blorg friendship finger family the worm waits
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Oct 28, 2018 16:30
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